Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #22

[snarast]

I guess the only arguement for that RB didn’t do this alone is that he seems to enjoy toying with his prey so much that he would rather leave them alive to contemplate his diabolical magnificense for the rest of their days.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Those incoming and out going passenger cards have so many errors on them.

QUESTION is WHY would Marion put Luxembourg on both cards ? Did she know him as FR living in Lux, when they met ?

Personally I don't think she did put Lux on either card. She had NO idea about Luxembourg and his connection IMO.


It was confirmed by SL that some of the writings on both passenger cards were from MB. That is all that was confirmed - some of the writing was MB. They had a forensic analysis look at passenger cards, the postcards and letters and they couldn't confirm either way.

At the inquest Home Affairs gave evidence that it could have been customs or airline official correcting the cards in regard to the countries crossed out too. It was agreed that it was someone else's hand writings.

Confirmed that her name, nationality, country of birth and birthdate do look to be the same on both cards as per FB page and inquest.




Outgoing flight - "MB left Australia from Brisbane airport on Korean Air Flight 814 to Sth Korea, departing at 11pm at night. The flight arrived at 8am 23rd June 1997. Gimbo airport was Korean Air’s hub airport back then & passengers could transfer to over 80 destinations. Korean Air flew direct to Heathrow from there, not via Narita.... They only flew via Narita to destinations in the Americas." MB FB page

Variations on cards:
1. Outgoing card - her age in different hand writing - why say she is 52 when she is really 51 - NO woman would say they are older than they are - IMO -
2. Europe is crossed out and luxembourg is written instead - ONLY it is spelt as Luxemburg - was this done later?
3. England is crossed out and S Korea written - airport official



1. Incoming card -

It was confirmed on the FB page and then on podcast, that incoming flight CX103 left Amsterdam, with a few hours layover in Hong Kong before arriving into Brisbane - A long 9 hour Cathay Pacific Flight from Hong Kong.

Passport number is the same one - ONLY filled out by someone else - WHY would MB, a teacher who was sitting on a long flight NOT fill out her own passport number IF she had already done her name, nationality, country of birth and birthdate ...? Even if she was tired, had her passport in her handbag tucked under the seat etc etc, she had plenty of time to fill that out on her layover in Hong Kong then her 9 hr flight into Australia.


2. Country of residence - Luxembourg - spelt correctly now - she couldn't have been a resident because she wasn't born there, nor was her 'new husband' and she would have been in Amsterdam at the time of her departure, having just left the UK! ( for those that think she did fly home)

3. Married and Home Duties - a week earlier she was telling her family about "how cheap schools were to buy" and that she could have had some relief work at a school. - She wouldn't be writing married and home duties a day later!
IMO this was filled out during her time with AH, thinking that one day she will be marrying a prince and living in a castle ONLY he was a toad and she is still no where to be found.

4. She isn't a visitor to Australia but a Resident of Australia - why was that box ticked.

5. Novotel spelt incorrectly on card - The Novotel is also used by Cathay Pacific crew and ground staff .
It is ALSO the hotel chain where AH asked ER to meet him while in Melbourne
It is ALSO connected to Lille - the very first Novotel opened in Lille in 1967 - the SAME Lille where he told JO he was bashed and in hospital AND the same Lille where he was in prison.
He knows the Novotel chain well !
Novotel morphed into the Accor group in 1983, and Novotel remained a pillar brand of Accor's multi-brand strategy.
( Accor, a big player in this story - GC even worked for them - funny that! )

6. Signature on incoming card matches her signature for passport application


It was confirmed at inquest that AH collected cards and pre filled them 'for convenience' and held onto them.

He got her to prefill some of the cards and held onto them.

JMO

There are times Mishy that I wished you had been questioning him at the inquest!!

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

At the inquest I did pick up some of the dates he travelled in and out of Australia but for 1997 do we know the date of his subsequent trip to Europe after he returned to Australia on the 31 July 1997? I’m not sure if this has been mentioned or not?

 

[DerZuschauer]

yep.

And also remember in his letter he talks about her 'boys' when he is doing work with them.. " thank you for annettes address, I have already met her"........" I have done some trips with William and his team, you were right.....big toddlers are kings in small puddles -
and.... " in a separate shipment I have mailed you your blue skirt, the only thing in Luigi's bathroom box"

I believe in the saying it's "tiddlers" (as in "small fish").

 

[Kie22]

Going back to JO....

His shocked face must have been priceless when he turned up at her place and saw she was home.

IMO she was one lucky lady the locksmith was there. AHA doesn't like losing control... and seems quite 'au fait' with burying things in backyards.

So why was he there? To rummage around for more stuff to steal? Scope the place with a view to using the power of attorney and selling it while she was OS? Was he planning to return to Europe and make her 'disappear' there? Or was he intending for her to return at a later date, all her stuff gone, house sold and him nowhere to be found? Difficult in this case as her ex & associates knew him.

Perhaps a very unnatural 'natural' death was on the master plan, but thwarted when her cousin smelt a big fat rat.

Apologies if this has all been said before!

 

[Kie22]

One more thought re: JO - I'm sure I'd have run down the street screaming & naked with a long row of feathers if I'd been stuck trailing around with that boring creep.

 

[*juniper*]

Going back to JO....

His shocked face must have been priceless when he turned up at her place and saw she was home.

So why was he there? To rummage around for more stuff to steal? Scope the place with a view to using the power of attorney and selling it while she was OS? Was he planning to return to Europe and make her 'disappear' there? Or was he intending for her to return at a later date, all her stuff gone, house sold and him nowhere to be found? Difficult in this case as her ex & associates knew him.

JMO, but i think the plan for JO was to use her title deeds and POA to take out a mortgage against her property. At this time in Australia it was MUCH easier to get a loan if you had equity in your property. This money would have been immediately sent overseas, and only when the lender started asking questions about missed repayments would JO have become aware of the loan.

This is the reason for the timing of the new RR identity, which was established at the start of the scam rather than at the end which was his usual pattern.

I suspect that AKA thought he could spin a narrative about how it was the men who ‘stole’ his passport at the same time they stole JO title deeds who had set up the dodgy loan. Luckily JO took action to place a caveat on her property title.

And with regard to their visit to Bali, I have wondered if AKA was accessing a bank account/setting up a new account? I remember Bank BNP Paribas was around in Bali during the 1990s but I don’t know if they were providing personal banking or if it was focussed on providing commercial services. So I am not sure if someone who, say, had a French account, could have accessed their money in Indonesia or conduct transactions. MOO as always.

 

[mishy66]

I believe in the saying it's "tiddlers" (as in "small fish").

Yep thats what it means. It translated as toddlers, same thing in English

Nice to see you back. Hows the research going over there!

 

[mishy66]

There are times Mishy that I wished you had been questioning him at the inquest!!

@Lord Peter Flimsy I wouldn't have been as patient as AC !

 

[mishy66]

JMO, but i think the plan for JO was to use her title deeds and POA to take out a mortgage against her property. At this time in Australia it was MUCH easier to get a loan if you had equity in your property. This money would have been immediately sent overseas, and only when the lender started asking questions about missed repayments would JO have become aware of the loan.

This is the reason for the timing of the new RR identity, which was established at the start of the scam rather than at the end which was his usual pattern.

I suspect that AKA thought he could spin a narrative about how it was the men who ‘stole’ his passport at the same time they stole JO title deeds who had set up the dodgy loan. Luckily JO took action to place a caveat on her property title.

And with regard to their visit to Bali, I have wondered if AKA was accessing a bank account/setting up a new account? I remember Bank BNP Paribas was around in Bali during the 1990s but I don’t know if they were providing personal banking or if it was focussed on providing commercial services. So I am not sure if someone who, say, had a French account, could have accessed their money in Indonesia or conduct transactions. MOO as always.

Yes I agree with your theory too.

The fact he knew her ex husband and the ex was in real estate too, I wouldn't be surprised it was a joint venture some what, a plan cooked with the ex as fall back.

And yes BNP Paribas and Bali entwined somehow in his plan. Maybe theres a money laundering bolt hold set up there through antiques being bought then sold back in Belgium....seem to remember a family connection in Belgium doing just that from my research!
That would help resolve a paper trail!

 

[Kie22]

Yes I agree with your theory too.

The fact he knew her ex husband and the ex was in real estate too, I wouldn't be surprised it was a joint venture some what, a plan cooked with the ex as fall back.

And yes BNP Paribas and Bali entwined somehow in his plan. Maybe theres a money laundering bolt hold set up there through antiques being bought then sold back in Belgium....seem to remember a family connection in Belgium doing just that from my research!
That would help resolve a paper trail!

Very interesting points *juniper* & mishy66. Thank you!

 

[Martinie]

Re-posting an old post (Mar 25, 2022 #621) by @Peralta regarding aliases ...

"I finally found the timestamp of when aliases were read out to DdH.
I've updated the list with new additions or clarifications in pink. Also thanks to @chicken96 's list.

Full alias list
NSW Police are aware of over 30 aliases linked to RB, nationally and internationally.
Source: Inquest Day 6, 35mins and NAA file

Willy Coppenolle
Willy David Coppenolle
Willy Wouters
Wouters Willy

David Fredy
Fredy David
Ricky David

Frederick David de Hedervary
Frederick Dehedervary (no space after 'de')
Frederick De Hedervaru (ends in U instead of Y)
Frederike De Hevedervary (female spelling)
Francis David de Hedervary

Chaim Frederick David Dehedervary
Chaim de Hedervary
Chaim Frederick David
Chaim David

Richard Lloyd West
Richard Westbury
Richard Lloyd Westbury
Ric West
Ric Richard
Ric Blum

Fernand Nocolas Remakel
Roger Lauzoney
Roger Lazoney

Bernard Dupont (RB claims it’s his friend)
Christopher Dupont
Atilla / Urtilla Dupont

Tony Grecca
Anthony Grech

Christopher Stein
Fleming (last name)
Wilson (last name)
Charles Guyon / Geaton
Gaeton Le Brousko
Frank Melon
Remy Lajoie

Zabdeel Zilly / Zadil Zwilling
Guy de Vio / de Veo
Phillipe Dent / Yeleek Dint "

Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

I finally found the timestamp of when aliases were read out to DdH. I've updated the list with new additions or clarifications in pink. Also thanks to @chicken96 's list. Full alias list NSW Police are aware of over 30 aliases linked to RB, nationally and internationally. Source: Inquest Day 6...

www.websleuths.com

I just can't get over how many times he was allowed to change his name without anyone looking into him! It's so bizarre. Hopefully that changes after this case is closed.

 

[DerZuschauer]

Nice to see you back. Hows the research going over there!

Thanks. Going slow, but we're still on it.

 

[mishy66]

Would serving on Lions International Club help WW in some dishonourable way...?

His brother / and some family members OS are connected to it.

I found a WW from Belgium at a meeting in Rome for International exchange students and camps, 2004 .

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Another hypothesis
Marion was maybe cautious undertaking this move in terms of funds.

Would serving on Lions International Club help WW in some dishonourable way...?

His brother / and some family members OS are connected to it.

I found a WW from Belgium at a meeting in Rome for International exchange students and camps, 2004 .

Being member of an organization would give him a networks of contacts to say, get a document witnessed.
Having no real employment, he would not Be able to have a maybe passport photo witnessed (not sure if Australia does this, but other countries a photo has to be co signed by a “professional” citizen).
But Rome? Maybe students are an easy fleece ….

 

[CuriousKat99]

What I would look for in the passenger cards is if they've been deliberately made to look like different people wrote them out, for example, did the exact same person write 'Luxembourg' and 'Luxemburg' and deliberately spell it incorrectly? Most people will consistently incorrectly spell a word. Most school teachers will know how to spell Luxembourg. Mr AKA sure as heck knows how to spell it.

“Luxemburg” is the German & Dutch spelling of Luxembourg. As far as I’m aware, Marion didn’t speak any German or Dutch. I wonder if a German or Dutch speaker filled out the passenger card?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

“Luxemburg” is the German & Dutch spelling of Luxembourg. As far as I’m aware, Marion didn’t speak any German or Dutch. I wonder if a German or Dutch speaker filled out the passenger card?

Aha! Well that moves it forwards a little bit. Also, going back to if an airline cabin crew or airport staffer filled out the destination, then again they would be international people.

 

[mishy66]

Another hypothesis
Marion was maybe cautious undertaking this move in terms of funds.

Being member of an organization would give him a networks of contacts to say, get a document witnessed.
Having no real employment, he would not Be able to have a maybe passport photo witnessed (not sure if Australia does this, but other countries a photo has to be co signed by a “professional” citizen).
But Rome? Maybe students are an easy fleece ….

Yes not him. Found the correct WW from the same residence has died.

So bizarre that AH brother and other family members are connected to the same Lions org in the area, yet this is a different WW!

This case has had so many layers of coincidences and doppelgangers!!!

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Aha! Well that moves it forwards a little bit. Also, going back to if an airline cabin crew or airport staffer filled out the destination, then again they would be international people.

Maybe MB just starting to need reading glasses, small print, low lightening in the plane and politely asked for help from next passenger or crew.

 

[intrepid.emma]

Aha! Well that moves it forwards a little bit. Also, going back to if an airline cabin crew or airport staffer filled out the destination, then again they would be international people.

The only times I have ever seen cabin crew assist with arrival documentation is to explain its purpose or clarify what a question might mean. This is mostly in relation to food items or how many cigarettes they are permitted to carry etc. I have never seen any cabin crew fill out a card for a passenger or make any amendments to a card. I have seen quarantine question passengers about answers on their cards but I would be surprised if they made amendments also. The passenger would be expected to amend their own card if needed. The cards themselves are often stored in publicly accessible spots on the plane, it would be very easy to stockpile them. It would also be rare that I operate a flight and do not get asked for extra cards by at least 3 or 4 passengers. Often those passengers multiple times as well. Generally they are people that are genuinely making mistakes. Others I now often wonder about!