Found Deceased Australia - Melissa Caddick, 49, Sydney, NSW, 12 Nov 2020 #7

[SLouTh]

Regarding the above post.... about separating the assets of MC versus Maliver....

I just find the argument odd as MC's income for the entire period was mostly the Investor's money.....

The DT said after yesterdays hearing that:
The only private funds were child maintenance payments for her son, funds from her parents and her brother and from the sale of her former Kensington home in April 2014.
Melissa Caddick spent up to $24m of investor funds on herself | Daily Telegraph

 

[OwlHeart]

That's an interesting point, I am convinced that there are other players in this sorry saga.

PM me for an interesting insight please

 

[SLouTh]

It just doesn't add up! Over how many years are we talking about? 3-4 million per year? Impossible. And to think her partner and family just turned a blind eye to it, on the one hand, and enjoyed the benefits of it on the other. There must be a stash of cash somewhere and whoever knew about it, bumped her off, IMO.

Yes agree ..... I can't understand how no-one questioned her "wealth" ..... the amount of lies, by MC, must have been astronomical ....
I guess in this case "hindsight" must be fairly mind blowing......

I think MC knew it was over the day ASIC and AFP knocked on the door...... but I cant understand if a person was "thieving" millions of dollars that they wouldn't have a contingency plan???? Or did she really believe that she would never get caught?????

 

[Trooper]

Regarding the above post.... about separating the assets of MC versus Maliver....

I just find the argument odd as MC's income for the entire period was mostly the Investor's money.....

The DT said after yesterdays hearing that:
The only private funds were child maintenance payments for her son, funds from her parents and her brother and from the sale of her former Kensington home in April 2014.
Melissa Caddick spent up to $24m of investor funds on herself | Daily Telegraph

She incorporated herself.... that is.. the cheques were made out to Maliver, but she , personally, without oversight of an investors board or equivalent, had sole access to the funds placed in her hands for 'investing'..

For years, she did this. It struck me, that at times she must have appeared to be very much wealthier , and quicker at it , than the bulk of her investment targets.. Why they didn't ask themselves how that could be , I do not know. If they made the money, they should have been able to invest like she did. Theoretically.

There is a lot of psychology of a sort of helplessness in this whole peculiar crime that I have no handle on at all. Even Anthony has that air of helpless.. hopeless... the brother, the parents, ditto,..... and sure , there may be some of her victims who are incandescent with rage and can barely string two words together, even now, .. but..

ASIC didn't seem to be astounded or in any hurry to investigate Melissa.. a really slack response, IMO....

 

[Trooper]

Yes agree ..... I can't understand how no-one questioned her "wealth" ..... the amount of lies, by MC, must have been astronomical ....
I guess in this case "hindsight" must be fairly mind blowing......

I think MC knew it was over the day ASIC and AFP knocked on the door...... but I cant understand if a person was "thieving" millions of dollars that they wouldn't have a contingency plan???? Or did she really believe that she would never get caught?????

Its hard to imagine that she did not plan for some sort of sudden exposure. I find that the most difficult of all scenario's to absorb. She didn't pay off her own mortgage on Dover Heights, she didn't pay off the mortgage on mum and dads place in Edgecliff.. she leased cars for Antony,, she was borrowing , trying to borrow large bucketfuls of money in the last months.

From somewhere, I recall she had not caught up on the sons schoolfees..... yet all this money flowed thru her little Chanel-manicured hands...

 

[JLZ]

'“Because of the fraudulent nature of this scheme … it was Ms Caddick who was the controlling mind of Maliver and therefore we invite the court to draw no distinction between the activities of Ms Caddick and Maliver,” he said.

(italics mine ).... this is the prosecutor speaking here, and to me, this is interesting, in so far as , it appears, that the DPP is arguing that Maliver, and anyone associated with Maliver, ( secretaries, accountants, advisors, go-fers, enablers etc ) are likewise tainted with the accusation and allegation of criminal activity.

Anyone else see it that way?

Does this help?

The judge flagged difficulty in deciding which assets belonged to each estate and if separate parties should be appointed as a receiver for Ms Caddick and a liquidator for her business.

Justice Markovic said she was concerned ASIC was trying to "jump over" certain legal steps to appoint the same receiver for both, and the situation "could end up in a mess".

"It's the pooling you want to undertake that I am troubled by … in other words, we are going to put everything into a washing machine " she said.
Bid to recoup $23m stolen by Melissa Caddick complicated by inquest, court told

 

[Trooper]

Does this help?

The judge flagged difficulty in deciding which assets belonged to each estate and if separate parties should be appointed as a receiver for Ms Caddick and a liquidator for her business.

Justice Markovic said she was concerned ASIC was trying to "jump over" certain legal steps to appoint the same receiver for both, and the situation "could end up in a mess".

"It's the pooling you want to undertake that I am troubled by … in other words, we are going to put everything into a washing machine " she said.
Bid to recoup $23m stolen by Melissa Caddick complicated by inquest, court told

The Judge's point is pertinent, insofar as Melissa herself made no distinction between her, personally, and Maliver, the entity. All monies were placed in the hands of Maliver, but all monies were spent by the hands of Melissa. Maliver didn't order that bespoke necklace from Catani , Melissa did. And it was Melissa that didn't collect it.

I don't grasp the concept ASIC is testing the waters with this aspect, at all. The case is about Melissa, but how the money isn't hived off for various sorts of expenditure, and instead , rolled into one murky bucket, .. seems a bit off, to me, but hey,.. there isn't much that is ON in this fiscal wrangle..

My tiny little $50 note says, that the parents, and the brother will get very very little, much less than anyone else, and Edgecliff will have to be put in the hands of a reliable real estate agent, and the other poor schmucks who thought they were getting a great deal will get around 27 cents in the dollar and that is me at my most optimistic.

 

[Trooper]

waa??? 27 cents??? I meant, of course 2 cents in the dollar, again , my most optimistic projection. That doesn't mean all of them will get 2 in the dollar, some will. Some will get absolutely nothing. It very much depends on actually to whom they made their cheque out to..

Ant......not much for Ant, I suspect. Not in writing , anyways.. The son.. a moot position.

 

[SLouTh]

Does this help?

The judge flagged difficulty in deciding which assets belonged to each estate and if separate parties should be appointed as a receiver for Ms Caddick and a liquidator for her business.

Justice Markovic said she was concerned ASIC was trying to "jump over" certain legal steps to appoint the same receiver for both, and the situation "could end up in a mess".

"It's the pooling you want to undertake that I am troubled by … in other words, we are going to put everything into a washing machine " she said.
Bid to recoup $23m stolen by Melissa Caddick complicated by inquest, court told

Agree JLZ and great post...

This was discussed at great length this afternoon, in the court hearing, and will be discussed again tomorrow in the Federal Court...... (adjourned to 1115hrs)

IMO - The Barrister representing MC, in her absence, argues some very good points on this matter... his legal argument was quite impressive...... (all IMO)

Probably, some not so good points for Investors however....

 

[Trooper]

Since ASIC , and the DPP have catalogued Melissa's scheme as criminal, no one will be permitted to profit from this crime, and that includes innocent bystanders, ie., Antony, the son, mum and dad, the brother and the 'investors'. Any returns to them will only be calculated on what they idiotically gave to Melissa, and not on what profit should have ensued had any 'investing' been going on.

But unless they actually find the money it's all pie in the sky, and could stay that way until the moon turns blue.

Assuming someone actually has the money, or knows where it is, the chances of them owning up or donating it back seem very slim to me.

 

[SLouTh]

Also interesting (from listening today) ...... and I think it may be very telling, in how MC's estate is eventually managed.....

Is that the court is not yet convinced that MC is actually deceased.......

Even to the point of "suggesting" ......... that creditors have been paid....... even suggesting that it is a possibility they have been paid after the ASIC / AFP raid......
as there are only 2 official creditors making a claim at the moment....... in addition to the Investors, family, etc....

Sure, its just a "legal argument".... but it's been put "out there"......

All very interesting.......

 

[drsleuth]

I don't think much will happen in this case until the coroner declares MC deceased ( along with date & cause ...which I doubt the coroner will be able to determine ) as the courts hands seem to be tied really....IMO

And we all know how long coroners cases take.....


No winners in this case. Except for the legal Eagels........

 

[SLouTh]

Since ASIC , and the DPP have catalogued Melissa's scheme as criminal, no one will be permitted to profit from this crime, and that includes innocent bystanders, ie., Antony, the son, mum and dad, the brother and the 'investors'. Any returns to them will only be calculated on what they idiotically gave to Melissa, and not on what profit should have ensued had any 'investing' been going on.

But unless they actually find the money it's all pie in the sky, and could stay that way until the moon turns blue.

Assuming someone actually has the money, or knows where it is, the chances of them owning up or donating it back seem very slim to me.

The "Contradictor" appointed for Melissa, raised some very interesting legal arguments about all of this......

Is he just being "devil's advocate"???

He implied that investors, prior to Maliver - the company. being formed, would be treated differently to those after Maliver was formed.....

Also implied..... was that because MC didn't have an AFSL, means that possibly????? she could not be prosecuted with the same ASIC Act ...... that is currently being pursued....

Also inferred.... if Melissa is found to be deceased by the Coroner, then possibly the Law of Probate and then Bankruptcy will come into effect.... rather than just everything being dived up by the liquidators... (Gleeson et al)

It seems to be a most complicated legal mess..... and at this point it would seem that the judge is erring on the side of appointing separate Receivers / Liquidators to MC versus Maliver..... however there will be fierce legal argument to follow tomorrow .....

ALL IMO ....

 

[SLouTh]

No winners in this case. Except for the legal Eagels........

Absolutely agree Doc!!

 

[SLouTh]

She incorporated herself.... that is.. the cheques were made out to Maliver, but she , personally, without oversight of an investors board or equivalent, had sole access to the funds placed in her hands for 'investing'..

Troop, not only this....... what you have said (agreeing)....... but if I remember correctly, some Investors just transferred money into Melissa's own account, not that of Maliver....??? As she reassured them she would look after them..... and would invest it on their behalf from there......

 

[drsleuth]

waa??? 27 cents??? I meant, of course 2 cents in the dollar, again , my most optimistic projection. That doesn't mean all of them will get 2 in the dollar, some will. Some will get absolutely nothing. It very much depends on actually to whom they made their cheque out to..

Ant......not much for Ant, I suspect. Not in writing , anyways.. The son.. a moot position.

BBM, I read that & thought ............ya dreamin' Troops

 

[SLouTh]

BBM, I read that & thought ............ya dreamin' Troops

Especially if MC's parents win the right to keep the Edgecliff Apartment.... as the "total pool" of assets money will drop considerably......

 

[Trooper]

Troop, not only this....... what you have said (agreeing)....... but if I remember correctly, some Investors just transferred money into Melissa's own account, not that of Maliver....??? As she reassured them she would look after them..... and would invest it on their behalf from there......

Those are the ones who will get zero, Slouth.. It will be argued ( and I suspect the claimants class action folks will make this claim on behalf of their clients , all of whom will want a lesser number of claimants to the dregs of what's left. .. ) that it was a ''gift'.. 'spend it on yourself, Melissa, why don't you'..... Only those who coughed up the cash to Maliver , as a provable business transaction will be considered..

My opinion only..

 

[SLouTh]

How a childhood acquaintance of Melissa Caddick invested $1.3million with her and never saw it again | Daily Mail Online

 

[SLouTh]

New Article here:
Melissa Caddick’s parents may lose Edgecliff home purchased in her name | Daily Telegraph

Will try and paraphrase article after dinner..... unless someone else is able to do it before that?

(The title of the article is somewhat deceiving..... IMO)