Deceased/Not Found AUSTRALIA - Ms Lesley Trotter, 78, Homicide, Brisbane, 28 Mar 2023

[neighbour4462]

BBM

Possibly a Freudian “slip up” here.. and could be very telling IMO

Usually, you have a body before you you prepare a report for the Coroner…
Until then, it is just an investigation …

The reasons that could be applicable in this case for a Report to the Coroner are:

Types of reportable deaths​

Unknown identity​

Even if nothing about the death is suspicious, the death of a person with unknown identity must be reported to a coroner unless the identity can be established with enough certainty to register the death.

Fingerprints, photographs, dental examinations or DNA can be used to identify the person.

Violent or unnatural death​

A death is violent or unnatural if caused by accident, suicide or homicide rather than a disease’s natural progression. Car accidents, falls, drowning, electrocutions, drug overdoses, and industrial and domestic accidents are all reported to coroners.

These deaths are reportable even if a delay occurs between the incident causing injury and the death, as long as the injury caused or contributed to the death and the person wouldn’t have died without the injury.

Suspicious death​

Suspicious deaths are generally those where homicide is suspected or cannot be excluded. A suspicious death is also one where the death has occurred unnaturally but it's unclear whether another person has been involved. If police consider there is sufficient evidence to lay criminal charges in connection with the death they may do so. In these cases, the coronial investigation is postponed until those charges are resolved.

Cause of death certificate hasn't been issued and is unlikely to be issued​

Where a patient appears to have died from natural causes, medical practitioners must issue a cause of death certificate if they can determine the probable cause of death. If they can’t, they must report the death to the coroner for an autopsy to determine the medical cause of death.

Assistance is available to help medical practitioners to fulfil this obligation, including:

• useful information about the issuing of certificates can be found through HealthPathways and Primary Health Networks
• a forensic physician in the Clinical Forensic Medical Unit at Queensland Health is available during business hours to discuss cases and provide advice
• the coronial registrar in the Coroners Court is available during business hours and can provide advice about whether it is appropriate to issue a death certificate.

If a medical practitioner cannot form an opinion about the cause of death or has concerns about the circumstances of death, they must report the death to the coroner.

For further information, read - Issuing cause of death certificates for apparent natural causes deaths – a guide for Queensland medical practitioners (PDF, 93.1 KB)

Reportable deaths | Coroners Court

What is a reportable death and who should report them

www.courts.qld.gov.au

I agree Slouth - freudian slip big time!

 

[SLouTh]

I agree Slouth - freudian slip big time!

I read somewhere ….. that I can no longer find … that Lesley was known to have been alive at 11pm on the 27th …. Do you happen to know if that is correct??

(I have posted about this earlier…. I know all of the times mentioned seem to be 11 … am and pm … ) i know that I read it somewhere… as I was wondering at the time if they knew this via a fitness watch / app (or even a pacemaker at the time… but later found out no health concerns… )

 

[SleuthingSally]

Feet off the ground … that’s a very specific and curious question.

I was thinking about how you’d fall into a bin and it could happen (in my opinion) if you were higher up. e.g on a step learning over. You know.. elevated somehow? is it possible she was standing at an elevated position looking into a bin?

I have no idea if it’s suspicious or misadventure but I can see how someone *could* over balance when learning into a wheelie bin if their feet were not on the ground.

 

[SouthAussie]

BBM

Possibly a Freudian “slip up” here.. and could be very telling IMO

Usually, you have a body before you you prepare a report for the Coroner…
Until then, it is just an investigation …

Possibly not a Freudian slip. Missing persons cases can go before the Coroner also. After a week of Lesley being mysteriously missing already (before the neighbour's statement was given), a presumption of death may already have been on the cards.


In a missing person's case, the Coroner firstly has to make a finding in respect of whether, on the balance of probabilities, he or she believes the missing person is deceased. If the Coroner isn't satisfied that the person is deceased, the matter may be referred back to police for further investigation.

Coronial process

A guide to the process and how the coronial system works. When a person is missing under accidental, unexplained, or suspicious circumstances, and there is belief the person may be deceased, the case may be referred to the Coroner. Police may refer the case to the Coroner to ascertain whether...

www.missingpersons.gov.au

 

[SouthAussie]

I'd love to know all the bins that were taken. Were they just from #56, just from #52, other buildings, or were they specific bins only? Were they only the general waste bins, or were they every kind of bin?

Maybe people are only aware of the bins taken from their own building.

 

[SLouTh]

I'd love to know all the bins that were taken. Were they just from #56, just from #52, other buildings, or were they specific bins only? Were they only the general waste bins, or were they every kind of bin?

Maybe people are only aware of the bins taken from their own building.

And possibly #58 ????

I would love to know that as well SA !

 

[nightrider17]

For LT to fall into a bin - general waste - it must not have been very full to begin with. I was wondering if the bin did come from no.58? the previously sold unit? which may have been empty and - not missed so to speak? MOO

 

[neighbour4462]

I read somewhere ….. that I can no longer find … that Lesley was known to have been alive at 11pm on the 27th …. Do you happen to know if that is correct??

(I have posted about this earlier…. I know all of the times mentioned seem to be 11 … am and pm … ) i know that I read it somewhere… as I was wondering at the time if they knew this via a fitness watch / app (or even a pacemaker at the time… but later found out no health concerns… )

That does sound familiar...I gathered it was from online or phone activity...

 

[neighbour4462]

I thought about LT falling into a wheelie bin, a lot. Wouldn't it have to be supported so it wouldn't topple over. Unless weighted with something heavy and small at the bottom or fixed in place. Still it would fall where it wasn't weighted/secured - which is usually the wheel & hinge side. I just don't see how someone could just fall in and not topple the bin over too or have their feet sticking out.

 

[SLouTh]

Feet off the ground … that’s a very specific and curious question.

I was thinking about how you’d fall into a bin and it could happen (in my opinion) if you were higher up. e.g on a step learning over. You know.. elevated somehow? is it possible she was standing at an elevated position looking into a bin?

I have no idea if it’s suspicious or misadventure but I can see how someone *could* over balance when learning into a wheelie bin if their feet were not on the ground.

Or (hate to write this) … over the landing head first into a bin that had been lined up for that purpose???

Would be less distance to carry a body if something happened upstairs …

imo

 

[Marg944]

I thought about LT falling into a wheelie bin, a lot. Wouldn't it have to be supported so it wouldn't topple over. Unless weighted with something heavy and small at the bottom or fixed in place. Still it would fall where it wasn't weighted/secured - which is usually the wheel & hinge side. I just don't see how someone could just fall in and not topple the bin over too or have their feet sticking out.

I agree Neighbour, the bin would topple over. I also find it hard to believe that a person could fit into the bin - without being physically shoved in and then squashed to fit.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I agree Neighbour, the bin would topple over

Not necessarily.

 

[neighbour4462]

I'm open to the possibility, TootsieFootsie...care to share?

I googled 'can someone fall into a wheelie bin' and saw this [edit: warning - graphic]:

Wheelie bin death prompts changes to health and safety guidelines - edie

Health and safety guidelines for commercial wheelie bins have been changed after a teacher who climbed into one was crushed to death, an inquest has been told.

www.edie.net

 

[MrsWattle]

Or (hate to write this) … over the landing head first into a bin that had been lined up for that purpose???

Would be less distance to carry a body if something happened upstairs …

imo

Police said blood was in 2 locations.

 

[neighbour4462]

Police sighting today:
Another neighbour told me four detectives attended LT's building today around midday. Started on the driveway, then went to Maryvale St and were outside no. 56/58. And also possibly relatives or the new owners/tenants arrived with a carload of clothes around the same time.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm open to the possibility, TootsieFootsie...care to share?

I've never actually tried putting a body into a bin

I'm open to something heavy falling straight down into the bin and the bin staying upright.

It would depend on how whatever fell, and if it affected the centre of gravity of the bin or not.

 

[neighbour4462]

Police said blood was in 2 locations.

Good lateral thinking... (here's the but...) all verandahs I know of are quite a height. Someone needs to be a good shot to get a body in. Plus it would make a heck of a noise...someone posted a while ago that lying the bin sideways might be easier. It's just awful (no matter how the means of entry) to think about a human in a garbage bin, isn't?

 

[neighbour4462]

I've never actually tried putting a body into a bin

I'm very glad to hear that!

 

[Marg944]

Neighbour, it looks like Lesley's unit block only had 2 recycling bins, yet there were 6 units? Is that usual for unit blocks in Queensland, to share the recycling bins?

 

[MrsWattle]

Neighbour, it looks like Lesley's unit block only had 2 recycling bins, yet there were 6 units? Is that usual for unit blocks in Queensland, to share the recycling bins?

It certainly would keep council fees down to only have 2 recycling bins for 6 units. I think each property in Australia can request what bins they need. Some people opt for extra bins depending on how much rubbish they have. Maybe Lesley was sorting the recycling so well they only required 2?
Police said she was in a general waste bin.