Deceased/Not Found AUSTRALIA - Ms Lesley Trotter, 78, Homicide, Brisbane, 28 Mar 2023

[SouthAussie]

I wonder how the bin was moved from the storage location (where the blood was found) to kerbside. It would be noticeably very much heavier than general waste. Also when the bin worker attached it to the lorry, wouldn't they have noticed the weight in that manoeuvre from kerb to lorry? As you have to tip them to move them, when they are heavy they are difficult to keep upright enough not to over balance.

In The Australian article that was posted yesterday, it said that a neighbour placed the bin on the footpath to be emptied.

I wonder if something was put on top of Lesley (some newspaper, a rubbish bag, something else) so that if anyone looked in the bin Lesley wouldn't be immediately obvious. Though the bin would have definitely felt heavy, I would think.

Just to add: I don't know how much Lesley weighed, but she was just 5'3'' (162cm) as per the police report, and with an "athletic build". She could have weighed right around the 70kg weight that is apparently the max "allowable" bin weight, as per the council website.

 

[iamshadow21]

I wonder how the bin was moved from the storage location (where the blood was found) to kerbside. It would be noticeably very much heavier than general waste. Also when the bin worker attached it to the lorry, wouldn't they have noticed the weight in that manoeuvre from kerb to lorry? As you have to tip them to move them, when they are heavy they are difficult to keep upright enough not to over balance.

I'm pretty sure all garbage trucks in urban centres have robotic arms to lift the bins these days. Certainly they do in Greater Sydney where I am. I imagine Brisbane would be similar.

The bin would be heavy, but you have to think of why people can easily move them even when they're very full. Think of a person moving a refrigerator on a hand trolley. All the weight is over the wheels once you get it to that point of balance, and then it's about maintaining the balance, not about taking the full weight of the bin with your arm. And even if a bin is very heavy, I've always found kicking the base of it with one foot while pulling the handles towards me with my arms does the trick every time, and then it's just about keeping it balanced.

MOO

 

[Dpdan]

But with moving a refrigerator you are anticipating the weight. I don't think a resident or a bin collector would anticipate general waste to weigh 50+kg.

 

[SouthAussie]

But with moving a refrigerator you are anticipating the weight. I don't think a resident or a bin collector would anticipate general waste to weigh 50+kg.

I think the bins could (normally) have become quite heavy by rubbish collection day. The weight of the bin might not have been particularly unusual to whoever moved it, or to the rubbish truck driver who operated the mechanical fork that lifts the bins.


Eg: Neighbour4462 said that their apt building has just 4 bins. So, it seems that there is not an individual bin for every household - as there is with a single family home. It seems that the residents of the apartment buildings may share the bins.

yes, Marg944, it is quite normal. Our complex has four now, which is unusual, as I ordered two more from the council because our family uses almost one bin per fortnight.

 

[neighbour4462]

Has settlement been delayed on her unit or have the new owners taken the keys now?

Police told me there was no delay to settlement.

Further, I've seen new people in and new curtains at the kitchen window. Lesley never drew her cafe-style curtains. I imagine Lesley felt safe enough not to draw her curtains because standing at her kitchen window, you could see right into kitchen and onto her dining/living room.

Number 52 is complex is a strange design; the front door is the back door. I mean, there is no entrance via Maryvale St or even at the side of the building. To knock on a unit's front door you have to go to the back (before the garages) and go up two flights of stairs to encounter the 'front door'. Even if you look at the top view, the garages are a separate building from the unit block whereas most older unit blocks around here have all garages underneath the unit complex.

 

[neighbour4462]

This could be really important information. People have focused on Lesley's tendency to sort through the bins, but based on what you've just said, the bins were probably just one small part of her larger attempts to enforce the rules at the complex.

Sadly, IMO that increases the likelihood that someone might have borne a grudge against her.

From what I know, Lesley liked to enforce rules not only at her complex but also in the streets around. I can entirely understand why she would put people offside. I know she made complaints to individuals about their behaviour and also to Brisbane City Council about a number of issues/people. And a number of people had issues with her as a rule enforcer. I don't wish to speak ill of the dead as they are not around to defend themselves, but unfortunately, she wasn't well liked by quite a few people. The term 'good riddance' was mentioned which I thought harsh to say of someone who died so abruptly and tragically. That person is the one who was interviewed by police on Saturday (as a past tenant of her complex). Btw, this person is elderly and frail and is unable to hoist 50kg into a wheelie bin.

 

[mussopossum]

Police told me there was no delay to settlement.

Further, I've seen new people in and new curtains at the kitchen window. Lesley never drew her cafe-style curtains. I imagine Lesley felt safe enough not to draw her curtains because standing at her kitchen window, you could see right into kitchen and onto her dining/living room.

Number 52 is complex is a strange design; the front door is the back door. I mean, there is no entrance via Maryvale St or even at the side of the building. To knock on a unit's front door you have to go to the back (before the garages) and go up two flights of stairs to encounter the 'front door'. Even if you look at the top view, the garages are a separate building from the unit block whereas most older unit blocks around here have all garages underneath the unit complex.

If no delay in settlement I would presume that there was no sign of a crime scene inside or anything that would be considered a working evidence that police would need to hold off the settlement a bit longer. Thanks for the update

 

[mussopossum]

From what I know, Lesley liked to enforce rules not only at her complex but also in the streets around. I can entirely understand why she would put people offside. I know she made complaints to individuals about their behaviour and also to Brisbane City Council about a number of issues/people. And a number of people had issues with her as a rule enforcer. I don't wish to speak ill of the dead as they are not around to defend themselves, but unfortunately, she wasn't well liked by quite a few people. The term 'good riddance' was mentioned which I thought harsh to say of someone who died so abruptly and tragically. That person is the one who was interviewed by police on Saturday (as a past tenant of her complex). Btw, this person is elderly and frail and is unable to hoist 50kg into a wheelie bin.

That is so sad that someone would speak that way. Regardless if someone was considered a pest it is quite nasty.

 

[mussopossum]

Man charged with murder over 'gentle' Queensland retiree's death

www.9news.com.au

And this today (unrelated to Lesley)
They allege the man visited the home on Kilcoy Lane between 10am and 1pm on Thursday and that he carried out an "unprovoked assault".
Police will allege the 68-year-old accused, who knew Gwin, fatally stabbed him.

 

[neighbour4462]

Is it muckraking If it was a fact though?
It by no means justifies murder but it may be a pertinent piece of info that helps get her justice.

I'm sorry to confirm that the Australian is correct. But just because someone says racist things or does offensive things or even breaks the law doesn't mean they should be killed arbitrarily. Lesley might have said this to others, but the person she told to go back to their country can be very annoying. I know, two wrongs don't make a right.

I agree 100% with: the people with whom Lesley had a problem with, might not have had a problem with her. Please know that police are very well aware of who Lesley made complaints about as they have been in contact with Council.

I imagine there would have been lots of tenant issues at No 52.

Also, if anyone had been complained about, then they only had to wait another week or two (max) as Lesley was moving to a nearby Aveo. If someone has a grudge against Lesley, they only had to wait -it makes no sense to do anything but wait. A normal person who is complained about just goes on with their busy life.

Possibilities:
- someone being complained about ( but they only had to wait one week or two)
- someone on whose property Lesley trespassed (to get 10c can/bottles) (angry - crime of passion?)
- accident (either hers or someone else's, ie hit/run) (could happen to anyone)
- money motive (ie money/inheritance before going into a nursing home which would eat up the inheritance)?

 

[neighbour4462]

I have no doubt a human would fit in a bin. But I do doubt that a bin wouldn't fall over if a human fell into it by accident!

 

[iamshadow21]

I have no doubt a human would fit in a bin. But I do doubt that a bin wouldn't fall over if a human fell into it by accident!

It'd have to have something equally heavy as the person in the bottom, in my opinion as a bin diver. But even then, the weight of the person on one edge of the top would probably tip it. The only way I can see that NOT happening is if someone was standing on something to be taller, like a stepladder, to reach in, and even then, there'd be a stepladder left behind right there, that people would see and question the reason for.

MOO

 

[neighbour4462]

Man charged with murder over 'gentle' Queensland retiree's death

www.9news.com.au

And this today (unrelated to Lesley)
They allege the man visited the home on Kilcoy Lane between 10am and 1pm on Thursday and that he carried out an "unprovoked assault".
Police will allege the 68-year-old accused, who knew Gwin, fatally stabbed him.

Yes. However, this ex-neighbour has his own issues to deal with and has moved on long ago from his Lesley days, lol. I'd be wondering more at who Lesley was speaking to at midnight on Monday as per the Australian article. I can confirm a few facts from the article. But others were completely unknown. Very interesting.

 

[neighbour4462]

It'd have to have something equally heavy as the person in the bottom, in my opinion as a bin diver. But even then, the weight of the person on one edge of the top would probably tip it. The only way I can see that NOT happening is if someone was standing on something to be taller, like a stepladder, to reach in, and even then, there'd be a stepladder left behind right there, that people would see and question the reason for.

MOO

I've never seen her so far in a bin and, it appears, nor had others. It doesn't mean she didn't. A heavy bin might prevent tipping, yes. Others said they saw her put things from bins on the ground. I never saw her with a step-ladder. You'd think it be easier to lie a bin on its side?

 

[neighbour4462]

I wonder how the bin was moved from the storage location (where the blood was found) to kerbside. It would be noticeably very much heavier than general waste. Also when the bin worker attached it to the lorry, wouldn't they have noticed the weight in that manoeuvre from kerb to lorry? As you have to tip them to move them, when they are heavy they are difficult to keep upright enough not to over balance.

The rubbish truck has side arms which hoist the bin into the waste receptacle. The driver stays in the truck and pushes buttons to operate the side arms.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

When I picture a rubbish truck, I still picture the style where the bins are manually wheeled to the back of the truck. The worker who wheeled it would absolutely know if it was heavier than usual.

Side arm rubbish trucks are new to me, and I can see that the amount of manual moving of the bins is minimal. If a human being never moves the bin, you're entirely relying on the sensors in the truck to flag up anything unusual.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

DBM

 

[kiwi50]

Yes. However, this ex-neighbour has his own issues to deal with and has moved on long ago from his Lesley days, lol. I'd be wondering more at who Lesley was speaking to at midnight on Monday as per the Australian article. I can confirm a few facts from the article. But others were completely unknown. Very interesting.

Yes I’m especially interested in whom she was talking to at midnight, and what she did in the next hour or two. I think these hours are vitally important.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Yes. However, this ex-neighbour has his own issues to deal with and has moved on long ago from his Lesley days, lol. I'd be wondering more at who Lesley was speaking to at midnight on Monday as per the Australian article. I can confirm a few facts from the article. But others were completely unknown. Very interesting.

Did you happen to notice if LT was habitual about bedtimes or more haphazard?
One would think if she was up early to check bins or ride/walk etc then she would generally go to bed early?
Or maybe she didn’t need much sleep and it was usual to see tv or reading light late at night (could have been visible if curtains didn’t get closed)?
Even if not every night, the night before bin day would surly have been an early one so she would be ready to do the bins the next morning?
I’m also intrigued by the late communications and device usage… For her to be in a wheelie bin only a few short hours later is very suspect.

 

[neighbour4462]

Did you happen to notice if LT was habitual about bedtimes or more haphazard?
One would think if she was up early to check bins or ride/walk etc then she would generally go to bed early?
Or maybe she didn’t need much sleep and it was usual to see tv or reading light late at night (could have been visible if curtains didn’t get closed)?
Even if not every night, the night before bin day would surly have been an early one so she would be ready to do the bins the next morning?
I’m also intrigued by the late communications and device usage… For her to be in a wheelie bin only a few short hours later is very suspect.

I noticed her lights off a lot more in the evening in the months before she went missing. I thought it odd at the time. I thought she wasn't home (and had found an evening activity) but now I think perhaps she turned off her kitchen light and retired to her bedroom to use her laptop/phone etc. I thought elderly people sleep less...? But surely early Tuesday morning would be a good time to grab any 10c items before collection at around 6-6.30am Tue (remember it was recycling day that morning). Therefore, Lesley definitely would need to be up early to get those 10c cans/bottles. She was an early riser anyway as I saw her a number of times at earlier times.

Edit to add: I wouldn't know if her bedroom light was on, only her kitchen light. I would see her at her sink in the evening, but not very much before she went missing.