Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #5 *charges*

[TootsieFootsie]

It has been known to happen.

The accused man has a wife and kids. Pretty tricky to bury things at your residence with a family about.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Note the word "established". The police spokesman did not use "concluded", or "determined", but "established". i watched the presser and the spokesman was very careful, as he needs to be, in the language he used. That word, "established", suggests they found some evidence that indicated to the satisfaction of investigators, that Mr Hill and ms clay were dead.

I was just about to post words to the same effect -" Interesting that he didn’t say “assumed".

 

[jsiar]

It has been known to happen.

Also they may just be looking for the weapon, or their phones/licences that were apparently missing. If he’s a keen gardener he may have done some ‘gardening’ and conveniently buried something else in the ground with his tomatoes.

Edit: apologies as I’m not savvy enough to multi-quote so my reply is to you & the original comment.

 

[brissygirl2019]

I've not kept up with this case, so apologies if this has been answered and gone over multiple times. If RH and CC were keeping their relationship a secret, how did the police and family know CC was there at the campsite? How did they link those two together?

Welcome to Websleuths Penny

From what I read RH & CC were in a long term affair/relationship, many years .... nothing is ever secret from everyone.

My thoughts are that someone or more than one person that was close to either RH or CC was in the know about their relationship and when their burnt out campsite was discovered it would not have taken long for people who knew about their relationship offered the information to police that RH was not camping alone

IMO

 

[Arboreal]

Did the suspect have a lawyer? I've heard no mention of one. Isn't it odd to have him detained for 3 days for questioning without a lawyer?

A number of lawyers and police officers have commented on the length of time between Mr lynn's arrest and charging. the charging came almost 72 hours after arrest. According to police, the lengthy period of time was owning to the complex nature of the matters to be put to mr lynne; a complicating factor is that police were concerned about his mental health and it was those concerns that prompted police to arrest him last Monday.
As for access to a lawyer, except in some national security cases and terrorism cases, a person has an absolute right to legal advice and to inform relatives where they are, from the time of detention.
As soon as practicable after arrest, and if the person arrested is to be interviewed, that person must be cautioned. according to this link, this is the caution used by the police officer:

I must inform you that you do not have to say or do anything but anything you say or do may be given in evidence.
Do you understand that?
I must also inform you of the following rights.
You may communicate with or attempt to communicate with a friend or a relative to inform that person of your whereabouts.
You may communicate with or attempt to communicate with a legal practitioner.​

 

[Satchie]

IMO it is extremely rare for an event like this to happen anywhere in the world.

Offender aged in mid 50's with no criminal record. Multiple victims aged in their 70s and being unknown to the offender. Crimes taking place outside of a domestic place. Not gang or group related. Not drug related. Not race related. Not robbery or financially related.

Murder rates have been steadily dropping since the 90's and is largely attributed to CCTV and mobile phones.

"If" you were a modern day serial killer you may likely go to very remote places like this with no CCTV and no mobile phone coverage to select victims. You might wait until the perfect opportunity arose, many serial killers escalate so this could be the first time there has been multiple victims.

I believe that leopards do not change their spots. People do not suddenly "snap" in their mid 50's without having a history of snapping before. I do not see Russell and Carol initiating this confrontation, they were an elderly retired couple seeming to want some quiet time away.

I am sure investigators will be looking at what this suspect has been doing for the last 30 years. Where he has been camping before (when by himself) and if anyone has disappeared into thin air in the times he has been in the vicinity. Has there been events in his life that may have triggered violent behavior at the same time people have gone missing. eg. loss of job or being stood down, breakdown of relationship etc. How long has he carried guns?

They have to build a case proving that he murdered Russell and Carol first and hopefully their bodies are found soon.

All of this IMO of course.

I know what you mean, but I feel like I keep noticing older perps: the police officer recently convicted of kidnap and murder in the UK, is in his late 40s with no indication he's committed any violent act before. Also, striking recent cases in the US and Canada of well-established, professional men in their 40s and 50s: a colonel in the air force, a tenured university professor, the Toronto landscaper and mall santa who appears to have committed his first murder at age 60.

Now, those cases I've cited are all sadistic sex crimes, where supressed tendencies may have been unleashed in a sort of mid-life crisis. We don't know what the motivation was in this case. But I'm thinking, perhaps a pot may simmer for many years, before it boils over into action.

It is very sad for Russell and Carol, but I'm glad police seem to have solved this mystery.

 

[jsiar]

Welcome to Websleuths Penny

From what I read RH & CC were in a long term affair/relationship, many years .... nothing is ever secret from everyone.

My thoughts are that someone or more than one person that was close to either RH or CC was in the know about their relationship and when their burnt out campsite was discovered it would not have taken long for people who knew about their relationship offered the information to police that RH was not camping alone

IMO

I believe CC’s sister knew about the relationship & the camping trip. She mentioned this in the 60 minutes episode.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I've not kept up with this case, so apologies if this has been answered and gone over multiple times. If RH and CC were keeping their relationship a secret, how did the police and family know CC was there at the campsite? How did they link those two together?

Russell used to work in that area as a logger and after he retired he used to go camping there on a regular basis. In fact he'd been there just the previous week. What his wife didn't know was that he'd been having an affair with Carol for many, many years. Carol's sister knew of the affair and that they used to go camping together. When LE interviewed Russell's family and Carol's sister, they put 2 and 2 together.

 

[Motomike]

How far away is the Great Alpine National Park from the burnt camp site?

The Wannangatta valley is in the Great Alpine NP. The campsite was near Dry River Track in the Wannangatta Valley. I have camped there 4 times myself.

 

[brissygirl2019]

Daily Mail has a report re this morning's brief court appearance

Jetstar pilot accused of murdering two campers finally has his day in court | Daily Mail Online

A bit of the above article ...

Few details were provided during the short filing hearing, which is the first step in what will likely be a long and arduous legal process that could take years to finalise.

Lynn's lawyer did not make any application for bail on behalf of the alleged killer, who was remanded in custody by Magistrate Greg McNamara until his next court appearance on May 31.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I must inform you that you do not have to say or do anything but anything you say or do may be given in evidence.
Do you understand that?
I must also inform you of the following rights.
You may communicate with or attempt to communicate with a friend or a relative to inform that person of your whereabouts.
You may communicate with or attempt to communicate with a legal practitioner.​

Agreed. This would be the US equivalent of a Miranda warning.

 

[Satchie]

Welcome to Websleuths Penny

From what I read RH & CC were in a long term affair/relationship, many years .... nothing is ever secret from everyone.

My thoughts are that someone or more than one person that was close to either RH or CC was in the know about their relationship and when their burnt out campsite was discovered it would not have taken long for people who knew about their relationship offered the information to police that RH was not camping alone

IMO

I don't believe she was reported missing, so IMO her presence may have been discovered when police tracked Russell's phone, which first went to her house.

ETA: this would have been as soon as he was reported missing by his wife, before anything had been made public.

 

[Arboreal]

I've not kept up with this case, so apologies if this has been answered and gone over multiple times. If RH and CC were keeping their relationship a secret, how did the police and family know CC was there at the campsite? How did they link those two together?

Ms Clay's sister was aware of the relationship and her family knew she was going away for a few days, although his family were not aware he was to be accompanied by anyone.
I seem to recall that Ms Clay's belongings were in Mr Hill' 4WD and there was speculation very early on that police were led to Ms Clay being with Mr Hill at the camp site via communications with her (presumably, via mobile). although their phones were missing, cell phone data is retained for 2 years.
These links provide some detail, with the forst mentioning ms Clay's belongings:
Mystery deepens over missing pair as campsite found burnt out with working vehicle
https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-...ons-case/b2b27879-01a1-4805-bfc9-b56f0d305a64
Grave fears for missing Vic campers
Mystery of elderly ‘friends’ who vanished on remote camping trip | Express Digest

 

[Detective Willy]

Daily Mail has a report re this morning's brief court appearance

Jetstar pilot accused of murdering two campers finally has his day in court | Daily Mail Online

A bit of the above article ...

Few details were provided during the short filing hearing, which is the first step in what will likely be a long and arduous legal process that could take years to finalise.

Lynn's lawyer did not make any application for bail on behalf of the alleged killer, who was remanded in custody by Magistrate Greg McNamara until his next court appearance on May 31.

Wow it says he has told police where he dumped the bodies. He folded...

 

[JudgeJudi]

Edit: apologies as I’m not savvy enough to multi-quote so my reply is to you & the original comment.

Instead of clicking on Reply,
Click on +Quote and repeat for each quote you want to reply to.
Then click on the Insert Quotes tab to the left of Post Reply.
You'll get a popup - select Insert Quotes
You'll get another popup - select Quote These Messages.

Add your comment and reply in the usual way.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I imagine locals in the area and on the route to the area to be searched, would have noticed an increase in the amount of LE vehicles.

Campers nearby would have noticed, plus there may be reports of campers being told to leave the area if it's too near the search area.

IMO

 

[brissygirl2019]

Wow it says he has told police where he dumped the bodies. He folded...

I sure hope that is true & he has told police everything!

 

[Satchie]

It has been known to happen.

Yes, Chad Daybell managed it in Idaho. Twice. And his 5 kids were all adults.

But, while it's easy to know when family are out of the house or asleep, it's less easy to hide from insomniac, curious neighbours, and that photo of his car in the driveway shows tightly-packed, two story homes.

IMO, since there's reports police have identified a 'crime scene', he may have talked, unless they were somehow able to track his phone or other gps equipment to a place where he lingered.

 

[Detective Willy]

I sure hope that is true & he has told police everything!

Only the Daily Mail has reported "It is understood Lynn has told police where he dumped their bodies in the bush".

No other media outlets have reported this (yet). Can we rely on what the Daily Mail has reported?

A brief of evidence against Lynn will not be ready until at least April 19.

Next court appearance May 31.

 

[brissygirl2019]

Only the Daily Mail has reported "It is understood Lynn has told police where he dumped their bodies in the bush".

No other media outlets have reported this (yet). Can we rely on what the Daily Mail has reported?

My thoughts exactly Det Willy! I still have my fingers crossed that he has sung like a canary with the reporting that the police have identified a "crime scene".