Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #5 *charges*

[Arboreal]

had two wives die in suspicious circumstances.

Holy smoke!

I'm sure someone is going to say it:
To lose one parent, Mr. Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness.”
O. Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest.
Or in this case....

 

[Arboreal]

Haha...fair enough....well I have succumbed to the devil (FB) and we have a tenuous relationship sometimes!

Detective Stamper says in the video ... RH, when speaking to the HAM radio guys told them that he was in the process of setting up his camp and couldn't talk for too long as he needed to set up before it was too dark.

I asked my friend who does have access and she has saved the video for me. I will watch and come back to you. But that comment from the police is important as it changes the time line considerably.

 

[Alicia__elizabeth]

According to The Herald Sun:

Career: Royal Australian Air Force (trainee), Ansett Australia, Qatar Airways, Jetstar

No Cookies | Herald Sun

He also worked for air ambulance Australia

 

[JBowie]

He also worked for air ambulance Australia

Was that a side job, or in between other airline jobs?

 

[JBowie]

Brilliant thank you so much. I was talking to an ex Pilot friend who worked with the RAAF during GL’S time and couldn’t find any record of him.

I guess it depends where he was stationed. The Herald Sun says he was born in Sydney, so he may have trained in NSW?

 

[Alicia__elizabeth]

Was that a side job, or in between other airline jobs?

In between other jobs
He worked in Sydney for 18 months while Lisa lived in Tasmania. Had an affair and lost his job because of it.
Then obtained work with air ambulance Australia in Victoria.
Lisa moved to Victoria and they bought in mt Macedon.
She then helped him get his job at Ansett through her contacts.

 

[Bats]

I asked my friend who does have access and she has saved the video for me. I will watch and come back to you. But that comment from the police is important as it changes the time line considerably.

You can actually watch the press conference from within the WS portal here... ...thanks to @Ramjet
Post #47

 

[Satchie]

Haha...fair enough....well I have succumbed to the devil (FB) and we have a tenuous relationship sometimes!

Detective Stamper says in the video ... RH, when speaking to the HAM radio guys told them that he was in the process of setting up his camp and couldn't talk for too long as he needed to set up before it was too dark.

Just mentioning again, RH was not sharing over the radio the information that he wasn't alone, but had a companion with him, who would probably not appreciate him jawing with his buddies on the radio through the evening, leaving her to try to entertain herself alone. I think it's perfectly reasonable he would make up an excuse for why he couldn't talk for long. IMO, just because he said it, doesn't make it so.

 

[TheSecondLaw]

Maybe..... GL was up to some SK activities ie. stalking, spying on someone etc... and Russell inadvertently flew his drone over him, now GL is all paranoid and tracks down Russell and Carol resulting in a messy altercation involving the campsite.

I just think if GL was a SK then it wouldn't make sense to burn up the campsite because it screams out 'a crime has been committed'!

Although I guess if he was a SK then he might not be the planning, stalking type, rather someone who can't control his rage who reactively murders...

IMO

If we assume that there is a bread crumb trail of metadata putting GL at the scene of the crime as seems to be the case, this lends the thought that it was not premeditated.

Imo Anybody who leaves their device location active whilst committing a premeditated crime is both extremely arrogant and naive, or just plain stupid.
My thoughts are that it was not pre-meditated. If devices were kept operating and capturing location data the whole time, the only thing that makes sense is thoughts by the alleged along the lines of: "They will already ping me to this location, if I turn off my devices now then it will look even more suspicious."

All speculation and imo

 

[Motomike]

Haha...fair enough....well I have succumbed to the devil (FB) and we have a tenuous relationship sometimes!

Detective Stamper says in the video ... RH, when speaking to the HAM radio guys told them that he was in the process of setting up his camp and couldn't talk for too long as he needed to set up before it was too dark.

I think this was only 1 month after the disappearance so some of the opinions of the police may not be well founded at that time. It would be inconsistent of Russell to go fly his drone, then talk to us on the radio up to 18:40 and then set up camp. I signed out at 18:30 but Russell and another member stayed discussing the route out to Dargo and possible camping spots on the way. He didnt seem to be in hurry to go and do anything before dark. I listened as I was interested myself for future trips. I would suggest that Russell would have set up at least the basics (tent, sleeping arrangements, cooking arrangements) prior to flying his drone and talking to us. I don't remember him saying that he still had to set up camp during out radio contact. I also dont remember if he said he had eaten already. He may have some minor setting up to do like the porta loo tent etc. He never used one when I had camped with him so I assume it was for Carol's benefit. At this point we didn't know Carol Clay was with him. He never mentioned her over the radio on any of his "solo" camping trips.

 

[Motomike]

OK. That is very interesting. Motomike was on that call, actually speaking to Mr Russell, and has not mentioned that.

I think if anything Russell would need to cook and eat after the radio contact. He didnt seem in too much of a hurry to me. He was part of the group for 40 minutes, far longer than required for a "health and welfare check" (the main reason we keep in contact via radio when camping in remote areas). See #879 for more details on my thoughts re Russell camp set up etc.

 

[Motomike]

Just mentioning again, RH was not sharing over the radio the information that he wasn't alone, but had a companion with him, who would probably not appreciate him jawing with his buddies on the radio through the evening, leaving her to try to entertain herself alone. I think it's perfectly reasonable he would make up an excuse for why he couldn't talk for long. IMO, just because he said it, doesn't make it so.

I think its more that anyone can listen in to the radio conversation and may have relayed those details to Russell's wife.

 

[Satchie]

If we assume that there is a bread crumb trail of metadata putting GL at the scene of the crime as seems to be the case, this lends the thought that it was not premeditated.

Imo Anybody who leaves their device location active whilst committing a premeditated crime is both extremely arrogant and naive, or just plain stupid.
My thoughts are that it was not pre-meditated. If devices were kept operating and capturing location data the whole time, the only thing that makes sense is thoughts by the alleged along the lines of: "They will already ping me to this location, if I turn off my devices now then it will look even more suspicious."

All speculation and imo

For myself, when I go camping or even on a long hike, I put my phone in airplane mode to preserve the battery. The constant roaming for weak signals runs the battery down and recharging isn't convenient. Plus, I sort of go out there to get away from being online, I only use the camera.

My other thought is that, aren't Russell and Carol's phones missing? If someone had to make sure they were turned off, that would recall to mind his own phone.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Will at least Russell or Carol be identified faster now that dentures have been found ?

Are there any markings on dentures that leads to identifying someone.

 

[Arboreal]

I think this was only 1 month after the disappearance so some of the opinions of the police may not be well founded at that time. It would be inconsistent of Russell to go fly his drone, then talk to us on the radio up to 18:40 and then set up camp. I signed out at 18:30 but Russell and another member stayed discussing the route out to Dargo and possible camping spots on the way. He didnt seem to be in hurry to go and do anything before dark. I listened as I was interested myself for future trips. I would suggest that Russell would have set up at least the basics (tent, sleeping arrangements, cooking arrangements) prior to flying his drone and talking to us. I don't remember him saying that he still had to set up camp during out radio contact. I also dont remember if he said he had eaten already. He may have some minor setting up to do like the porta loo tent etc. He never used one when I had camped with him so I assume it was for Carol's benefit. At this point we didn't know Carol Clay was with him. He never mentioned her over the radio on any of his "solo" camping trips.

Hello motomike
Thanks for those comments. You have really filled things out here.
I posted a time line, in a larger reply to Zanzibar. Deceased/Not Found - Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #5 *charges*
I wonder if you might cast your eye over it. I'd be mightily grateful for any comments.
I have another question. In the Ch9 Under Investigation, Valentine Small, one of the panelists, shows a diagram of the campsite.
Mr Hill's 4WD is parked nose towards the perimeter of the clearing. The diagram shows that Mr Hill pitched the tent on the passenger side. The tent is one that has a room and an awning, at least in the diagram. The awning does not face the 4WD but rather faces out, towards the track/clearing. Does this seem the sort of arrangement Mr Hill would use?
Thanks again for your comments. I can't begin to imagine how distressing all this must be for the families and friends of Mr Hill and Ms Clay.

 

[Bats]

I think this was only 1 month after the disappearance so some of the opinions of the police may not be well founded at that time. It would be inconsistent of Russell to go fly his drone, then talk to us on the radio up to 18:40 and then set up camp. I signed out at 18:30 but Russell and another member stayed discussing the route out to Dargo and possible camping spots on the way. He didnt seem to be in hurry to go and do anything before dark. I listened as I was interested myself for future trips. I would suggest that Russell would have set up at least the basics (tent, sleeping arrangements, cooking arrangements) prior to flying his drone and talking to us. I don't remember him saying that he still had to set up camp during out radio contact. I also dont remember if he said he had eaten already. He may have some minor setting up to do like the porta loo tent etc. He never used one when I had camped with him so I assume it was for Carol's benefit. At this point we didn't know Carol Clay was with him. He never mentioned her over the radio on any of his "solo" camping trips.

Thanks very much for your insight here Motomike. Very much appreciated!

Out of interest @Motormike, do you know if when Russell flew his drone, did he have some sort of headset that covered his eyes?

Like this...

 

[Satchie]

Will at least Russell or Carol be identified faster now that dentures have been found ?

Are there any markings on dentures that leads to identifying someone.

Good point, I think the dentures would be as identifiable as teeth are.

 

[emirates1957]

Was that a side job, or in between other airline jobs?

No normally that would be a kick off point to larger airlines. Air Ambulance would require you also to be “on call” so having another flying job would be out of the question….you can only do so many flying hours in a month to avoid fatigue.

 

[emirates1957]

In between other jobs
He worked in Sydney for 18 months while Lisa lived in Tasmania. Had an affair and lost his job because of it.
Then obtained work with air ambulance Australia in Victoria.
Lisa moved to Victoria and they bought in mt Macedon.
She then helped him get his job at Ansett through her contacts.

This bloke is a piece of work…I was talking to my girlfriend who lived in Macedon for 40 years - she was going to put some feelers out. Ansett collapsed around 2002 - so that’s when he went to Qatar? It staggers me as he would have had to do some serious psych exams to get into these airlines. I worked with Emirates for many years (on the ground) and frequently travelled to the Middle East….my guess is LE in Doha would be nowhere near as thorough. Again thank you so much for the insight into this nutter…..I am truly gobsmacked and do hope you able to have his first wife’s death investigated further x

 

[SouthAussie]

For myself, when I go camping or even on a long hike, I put my phone in airplane mode to preserve the battery. The constant roaming for weak signals runs the battery down and recharging isn't convenient. Plus, I sort of go out there to get away from being online, I only use the camera.

My other thought is that, aren't Russell and Carol's phones missing? If someone had to make sure they were turned off, that would recall to mind his own phone.

I also would think that it is possible that an airline pilot might think of phone pings. Depending on how clearly he was thinking after the murders.
They are kind of in tune with technology. "No phones pinging on planes, please" ... not even their own phones.

imo