Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #2

[trujac]

I tried to search for 'key' but the word is too short: where/how easily was the truck key found?

It occurs to me, the most valuable object at the campsite was the truck. Could someone have intended to steal it, ransacked the camp for the key, unable to find it set the fire to hide fingerprints and out of anger?

Also occurs to me, when police state foul play is involved, IMO that would include murder-suicide, it can't be ruled out.

Yes...I agree, murder/suicide seems like a viable possibility when looking at the campsite evidence. The news articles and several interviews with detectives in this case didn't say where the truck key was found--for all we know, the truck was unlock with the key in the ignition. Had someone wanted to gain access to the truck without a key to ransack it for valuables why not smash out the driver or passenger window? All of RH and CC personal/identifying information and belongings were left in the truck undisturbed. From all appearances the tent fire destroyed everything outside of the truck save for the RH's missing drone and cell phone. Anger seems like a motivation for the campsite fire to me too. It seems like RH and CC's relationship was an enigma. A lot of their friends and family didn't know the full story of what they had being doing together for years...other than a few friends knowing that they regularly camped together in the Wonnangatta Valley, and CC supposedly divorced her husband in order to marry RH. The most glaring and questionable missing evidence to me is the lack of any blood evidence, hair strands/tufts, shoes, strewn personal items, disturbed/drag dirt trails and so forth--around and in proximity to the campsite. That suggests to me there was no struggle when RH and CC vacated/or were removed from their campsite. I think RH's extensive experience with the Wonnangatta Valley plays a role in what happened to RH and CC. Whether he latched onto something of importance in the Valley and was killed because of the threat it posed to someone else or he used his camping/logging skills to create a permanent departure for himself and CC, the truth of what happened to RH and CC might not be revealed for long a time.

 

[srper2]

My apologies if this has already been discussed, but the mobile phone that was charging could have been intended to be used to locate the drone by satellite GPS with no mobile coverage needed. If he had the Mavic app and had registered his drone, which he probably did, the police should be able to get access to the data through Mavic and check if and where the drone was flown and may have crashed. Maybe they located the downed drone and tried to hike out to collect it using one phone, while the other phone charged. The tent and contents were thoroughly burned, not just a tent catching fire, everything completely and utterly destroyed by a hot, fast fire which left the car only singed. A hiker walked past at 2pm the day after he had made radio contact and police said the tent had burned and they disappeared some time between the radio contact and the hiker seeing the burned tent, so pretty much the first night/or the day after they set up camp was when they disappeared. Did a fire investigation forensic team check out the burnt tent to properly investigate the cause? So far it seems it is all speculation. Have police tried to track where the drone went - if it was registered the data is probs. still sitting there? Did police check tyre tracks at and around the site before contaminating the scene? Did they fingerprint anything? Russell had the car keys with him and a spare set was found hidden at the car. This makes me think they radioed in the previous afternoon, set up camp in a private spot away from the main camp area. Tried out the drone, lost it. Put the phone on to charge to use to track the drone. Left the car locked and walked off to start searching for the drone and way overestimated their ability to manage in the terrain, got lost or he had a medical incident and she had no idea where she was or what do do. Her not at all familiar with the bush etc. him elderly with a heart condition.
Police say drone could hold vital clues about disappearance of elderly campers

 

[SouthAussie]

I tried to search for 'key' but the word is too short: where/how easily was the truck key found?

It occurs to me, the most valuable object at the campsite was the truck. Could someone have intended to steal it, ransacked the camp for the key, unable to find it set the fire to hide fingerprints and out of anger?

Also occurs to me, when police state foul play is involved, IMO that would include murder-suicide, it can't be ruled out.

Take your pick.


But sources say the pair would have had plenty of time to escape a fire, and Mr Hill's Toyota four-wheel drive - found at the scene with keys in the ignition - is driveable.
Mystery of elderly 'friends' who vanished on remote camping trip | Daily Mail Online

The keys were in the car and it was well-equipped for remote camping and in good working order.
Police investigate 'new sightings' of missing campers Carol Clay and Russell Hill

A spare set of keys was found hidden on the car, but it is believed Mr Hill took the main set with him.
Three theories about what happened to missing Wonnangatta Valley campers | Daily Mail Online


I think it is likely that if someone really wanted the vehicle, they could have searched in the same way that the police did and found the keys ... no matter exactly where they were located. And even if they had to smash a side window to get in. Plenty of rocks around that area, and it seems that they probably had plenty of time and privacy in which to do that.

As well, if Russell has been murdered, they could just take his main set of keys out of his pocket (if they were there).

 

[Clair Louise]

Take your pick.


But sources say the pair would have had plenty of time to escape a fire, and Mr Hill's Toyota four-wheel drive - found at the scene with keys in the ignition - is driveable.
Mystery of elderly 'friends' who vanished on remote camping trip | Daily Mail Online

The keys were in the car and it was well-equipped for remote camping and in good working order.
Police investigate 'new sightings' of missing campers Carol Clay and Russell Hill

A spare set of keys was found hidden on the car, but it is believed Mr Hill took the main set with him.
Three theories about what happened to missing Wonnangatta Valley campers | Daily Mail Online


I think it is likely that if someone really wanted the vehicle, they could have searched in the same way that the police did and found the keys ... no matter exactly where they were located. It seems that they probably had plenty of time in which to do that.

This is a real mystery, isn't it?

 

[SouthAussie]

My apologies if this has already been discussed, but the mobile phone that was charging could have been intended to be used to locate the drone by satellite GPS with no mobile coverage needed. If he had the Mavic app and had registered his drone, which he probably did, the police should be able to get access to the data through Mavic and check if and where the drone was flown and may have crashed.

<RSBM>

There is this link that says that there is no drone data for that time.


Russell had an app on his phone for the drone, but had not uploaded any footage to his account from that Wonnangatta trip.

Another theory is that if Russell’s drone went down in bushland, the pair might have got lost looking for it.

But police have not been able to find any flight path data from the trip.

While Inspector Stamper says that doesn’t mean a flight didn’t occur, it does mean if it did happen, it’s a flight that has also left no digital trace.

Four people have gone missing within a 60km radius in the past year. Their fate remains a mystery

 

[trujac]

This is a real mystery, isn't it?

yes, since this story broke 5 months ago there have been multiple theories and information circulating through various news lines...all of which, lead nowhere in explaining what happened or finding RH and CC. Wherever they are...hope they're at peace.

 

[Clair Louise]

yes, since this story broke 5 months ago there have been multiple theories and information circulating through various news lines...all of which, lead nowhere in explaining what happened or finding RH and CC. Wherever they are...hope they're at peace.

And such a strange situation too. Eldery people having an affair?

 

[SouthAussie]

And such a strange situation too. Eldery people having an affair?

They had been sweethearts way back when. Then had other partners and had children, and then were reunited many years later.

 

[trujac]

And such a strange situation too. Eldery people having an affair?

Not to be crude or suggestive...but there is published data regarding the elderly in nursing homes. They are quite active in their love life, and need to be reminded to use prophylactics...one article said, several nursing homes now had a bowl of prophylactics on the administration desk in the lobby! I think several friends of RH and CC said they had been close for many years. RH's wife said that as a couple, she and RH knew CC for decades presumedly when CC was married to her husband...

 

[trujac]

Take your pick.


But sources say the pair would have had plenty of time to escape a fire, and Mr Hill's Toyota four-wheel drive - found at the scene with keys in the ignition - is driveable.
Mystery of elderly 'friends' who vanished on remote camping trip | Daily Mail Online

The keys were in the car and it was well-equipped for remote camping and in good working order.
Police investigate 'new sightings' of missing campers Carol Clay and Russell Hill

A spare set of keys was found hidden on the car, but it is believed Mr Hill took the main set with him.
Three theories about what happened to missing Wonnangatta Valley campers | Daily Mail Online


I think it is likely that if someone really wanted the vehicle, they could have searched in the same way that the police did and found the keys ... no matter exactly where they were located. And even if they had to smash a side window to get in. Plenty of rocks around that area, and it seems that they probably had plenty of time and privacy in which to do that.

As well, if Russell has been murdered, they could just take his main set of keys out of his pocket (if they were there).

Everything that exists as a visual fact in this case only adds more unanswered questions...as to why, where, and when...It has to be one of the strangest disappearance case that I've followed.

 

[SouthAussie]

Everything that exists as a visual fact in this case only adds more unanswered questions...as to why, where, and when...It has to be one of the strangest disappearance case that I've followed.

Yes, it is really unusual to not have some indication (that we know of) as to what has happened to Russell and Carol. Other than the police drilling down to their opinion that foul play is likely involved.

Russell's wife was quick to pack his stuff up and declare him dead, but that could partially be her anger/distress at finding out that he had been seeing Carol for ages (if she didn't know) and had been taking Carol camping - or not.

Button Man seems very territorial and can be intimidating. But there seems to be no strong indication that he was involved in this particular matter - although he seems to have had a run-in with Russell previously.

Then there is the possibility of pot crops that may have been sighted by the drone - as locals think might have happened - but the police have not yet found any pot crops in the search areas or evidence of them, apparently.

Murder/suicide cannot be excluded. But again, there is no indication of that. And why would whoever- murdered-who need to set up a scene such as the burning of the tent. If they are dead, it shouldn't even matter, no cover-up required. And no need to hide their suicided self or their murdered lover.

If they have disappeared forever it is still going to take a long time for their personal estate - as opposed to joint monies - to be released to their (other) loved ones. Time, potential court approvals, official declarations of death .....

 

[lindylou]

I like to think they ran off and are living happily ever after.

 

[SouthAussie]

I like to think they ran off and are living happily ever after.

A nice dream.
But police have said they have not touched their bank accounts, their phones, or any of the 'sign of life' things.

 

[trujac]

Yes, it is really unusual to not have some indication (that we know of) as to what has happened to Russell and Carol. Other than the police drilling down to their opinion that foul play is likely involved.

Russell's wife was quick to pack his stuff up and declare him dead, but that could partially be her anger/distress at finding out that he had been seeing Carol for ages (if she didn't know) and had been taking Carol camping - or not.

Button Man seems very territorial and can be intimidating. But there seems to be no strong indication that he was involved in this particular matter - although he seems to have had a run-in with Russell previously.

Then there is the possibility of pot crops that may have been sighted by the drone - as locals think might have happened - but the police have not yet found any pot crops in the search areas or evidence of them, apparently.

Murder/suicide cannot be excluded. But again, there is no indication of that. And why would whoever- murdered-who need to set up a scene such as the burning of the tent. If they are dead, it shouldn't even matter, no cover-up required. And no need to hide their suicided self or their murdered lover.

If they have disappeared forever it is still going to take a long time for their personal estate - as opposed to joint monies - to be released to their (other) loved ones. Time, potential court approvals, official declarations of death .....

Very nice summary of where things stand now.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think Russell's wife handled it in a very gracious way, she did say she hopes they're both ok.
I don't know if I'd be able to be seemingly so forgiving if it happened to me.

I probably wouldn't want to be giving any interviews at all. I'd have packed up his things too, because seeing them would be too painful, and I guess I'd feel love/hate towards him and a feeling of betrayal.
I'd feel like our whole life together was a lie.

Russell's wife was quick to pack his stuff up and declare him dead, but that could partially be her anger/distress at finding out that he had been seeing Carol for ages (if she didn't know) and had been taking Carol camping - or not.

 

[trujac]

I think Russell's wife handled it in a very gracious way, she did say she hopes they're both ok.
I don't know if I'd be able to be seemingly so forgiving if it happened to me.

I probably wouldn't want to be giving any interviews at all. I'd have packed up his things too, because seeing them would be too painful, and I guess I'd feel love/hate towards him and a feeling of betrayal.
I'd feel like our whole life together was a lie.

Yes, I agree. I am not sure how I would have reacted. It must have been a humiliating experience for RH's wife when dealing with LE and news reporters--and then to publicly state that she had no idea her husband was with CC. I think she decided to share the infidelity publicly as a way not to bury the hurt and sense of betrayal within herself--a way of diffusing the emotional impact...pretty courageous in light of the disastrous disappearance and possible murder of her long term husband.

 

[spangled]

People get lost in the bush all the time. That on its own wouldn't be
strange.

Going missing the the bush AND the fire make it incredibly strange.

 

[Satchie]

And such a strange situation too. Eldery people having an affair?

Feeling that there isn't much time left, or too much time has already been wasted, can be really intense.

 

[Satchie]

Murder/suicide cannot be excluded. But again, there is no indication of that. And why would whoever- murdered-who need to set up a scene such as the burning of the tent. If they are dead, it shouldn't even matter, no cover-up required. And no need to hide their suicided self or their murdered lover.

Yes, the fact that he'd bought the expensive drone, and she'd bought a new home, argues against murder/suicide on either side.

To be frank, if there were any murderous intentions or capabilities in people involved in this kind of situation, IMO it would be the wife at home who'd be more likely to be missing.

 

[Satchie]

My apologies if this has already been discussed, but the mobile phone that was charging could have been intended to be used to locate the drone by satellite GPS with no mobile coverage needed. If he had the Mavic app and had registered his drone, which he probably did, the police should be able to get access to the data through Mavic and check if and where the drone was flown and may have crashed. Maybe they located the downed drone and tried to hike out to collect it using one phone, while the other phone charged. The tent and contents were thoroughly burned, not just a tent catching fire, everything completely and utterly destroyed by a hot, fast fire which left the car only singed. A hiker walked past at 2pm the day after he had made radio contact and police said the tent had burned and they disappeared some time between the radio contact and the hiker seeing the burned tent, so pretty much the first night/or the day after they set up camp was when they disappeared. Did a fire investigation forensic team check out the burnt tent to properly investigate the cause? So far it seems it is all speculation. Have police tried to track where the drone went - if it was registered the data is probs. still sitting there? Did police check tyre tracks at and around the site before contaminating the scene? Did they fingerprint anything? Russell had the car keys with him and a spare set was found hidden at the car. This makes me think they radioed in the previous afternoon, set up camp in a private spot away from the main camp area. Tried out the drone, lost it. Put the phone on to charge to use to track the drone. Left the car locked and walked off to start searching for the drone and way overestimated their ability to manage in the terrain, got lost or he had a medical incident and she had no idea where she was or what do do. Her not at all familiar with the bush etc. him elderly with a heart condition.
Police say drone could hold vital clues about disappearance of elderly campers

Fire investigators can usually determine how a fire was set. I recall there was initial speculation the the battery charger may have set the fire. I wonder whether investigators have ruled that out and determined a different cause for the fire, that it was deliberately set, and that's why they are indicating foul play.