Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[SouthAussie]

The face the music tells me that her husband and Carol was something she really didn't know, and it wasn't something that she knew and was somehow resigned to.

Using the word sadist didn't fit in with what she was saying. I think she meant another word but chose the wrong one as we sometimes do.

My surprise is that she knew Carol for 50 years. So it seems that that maybe there never was a period of time that Russell wasn't in contact with Carol.

I think masochist might have been the word she was looking for. In this case, someone who inflicts pain on themselves by staying in a relationship where the partner's feelings are elsewhere.

But I guess while she turned a blind eye she was able to shield herself from the pain. Now that it is printed in every media article and everyone knows, shielding herself has become far more difficult.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yes, that's exactly the word I think she was looking for.

I think masochist might have been the word she was looking for.

 

[JLZ]

I think masochist might have been the word she was looking for. In this case, someone who inflicts pain on themselves by staying in a relationship where the partner's feelings are elsewhere.

But I guess while she turned a blind eye she was able to shield herself from the pain. Now that it is printed in every media article and everyone knows, shielding herself has become far more difficult.

I don't think 'masochist' fits with the next sentence. "You've got to be, otherwise you'd be in a heap." And 'sadist' fits better with the sentiment that he can face the music.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't think 'masochist' fits with the next sentence. "You've got to be, otherwise you'd be in a heap." And 'sadist' fits better with the sentiment that he can face the music.

I had a bit of a think about it, and I think it fits. If you didn't 'enjoy' the pain, you'd fall in a heap.



This woman has had years and years of an absent husband, likely both physically and emotionally absent.
Blind Nellie likely would have worked out what was going on, if she wanted to. But she would rather feel some pain than stare the truth in the face and feel the full force of it.

Now she has to face greater pain than the years of absence, because everyone knows and Russell can't even come home to share a meal with her.

 

[JLZ]

I had a bit of a think about it, and I think it fits. If you didn't 'enjoy' the pain, you'd fall in a heap.

View attachment 295627

This woman has had years and years of an absent husband, likely both physically and emotionally absent.
Blind Nellie likely would have worked out what was going on, if she wanted to. But she would rather feel some pain than stare the truth in the face and feel the full force of it.

Now she has to face greater pain than the years of absence, because everyone knows and Russell can't even come home to share a meal with her.

I think part of the horror for her is that people will say just that, that she's pathetic and so on. For years she made out that there was nothing particularly wrong because she could deal with the absence better than the humiliation. And really was he such a desirable companion? His absence such a blight? I think she'd rather die than tell a reporter that she's a masochist. So she claims to be a sadist, which is slightly comical perhaps--a dove wanting to be a tiger.

The other part of the horror might be what she knows or suspects about a close connection's involvement. This means more to her than her husband's death. For now she's getting around that by blaming the victims.

 

[4Erica]

In this video RA states that Robyn always knew about RH/CC. That blew my mind!
liz hayes high country mystery - Google Search

Which, if true makes the "spouse did it" scenario make zero sense. Why lose it after all these years? I could only come up with one possible answer:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...days-before-camping-trip-20200422-p54m7y.html

"Ms Clay, a mother of three who separated from her partner several years ago, had for several months been living by herself in a new Pakenham home when she left with Mr Hill to go camping.
The property, built in the past year and close to Pakenham shops and train station, settled on March 12, seven days before the pair left."

In the US, a property under construction gets a construction loan that runs until the property is completed and then the loan is settled. I know CCs new house has been discussed, just didn't see anything regarding potential construction loans on a home for her. Also could explain the neighbor seeing RH a lot if he was dropping around to check on progress. And I agree with the poster who said RH would never want to live in that house.

Or she simply snapped one day. Had enough.

Also, someone mentioned not wanting to carry bodies around with you. IF the white Ute is involved, a tonneau cover such as this:

Would cover things nicely.

 

[Satchie]

I had a bit of a think about it, and I think it fits. If you didn't 'enjoy' the pain, you'd fall in a heap.

View attachment 295627

This woman has had years and years of an absent husband, likely both physically and emotionally absent.
Blind Nellie likely would have worked out what was going on, if she wanted to. But she would rather feel some pain than stare the truth in the face and feel the full force of it.

Now she has to face greater pain than the years of absence, because everyone knows and Russell can't even come home to share a meal with her.

There's also the anger aspect of grief, it comes up regardless of the circumstances. If he'd been alone, IMO she'd still be experiencing anger about it, and how can she compare whether this is worse? So hard to imagine enduring this, the not knowing.

 

[4Erica]

I don't know if RbH knew. Really knew. Seriously. She says she is a loner, we know RH was never home, if she was getting all her information through him she wouldn't know. People might think "oh, she knows - how couldn't she?" But denial is a powerful defense mechanism and if she didn't spend her time alone bettering herself in some way, she might be in no position to "just move on". She is 71. If the RH/CC barn burner has been going on for 20 years all parties were in their 50's when this started. Not an enviable position to be in if you have been a housewife all that time with nothing to fall back on. Turning a blind eye to the point of ignorance to what is going on around you could be more comfortable until one day it can't be ignored anymore.

Wonder how much all that camping gear cost? $$$$$ is my guess. Wonder how many camping trips RbH got to go on?

 

[Monsoon]

Thinking about the shovels found near Mount Hotham. If related to the case, this seems to show disorganisation and lack of planning (being thrown from a main-ish road). The police seemed to want to show the media some of what was found (shovels) yet not other things (brown bags) - why? The shovels look like they might have cement residue on them. I wonder if there is any connection between the cement business in Mansfield on Dead Horse Lane, and two nearby taxidermy businesses (one sharing a back fence, the other a few doors up).

 

[JLZ]

Thinking about the shovels found near Mount Hotham. If related to the case, this seems to show disorganisation and lack of planning (being thrown from a main-ish road). The police seemed to want to show the media some of what was found (shovels) yet not other things (brown bags) - why? The shovels look like they might have cement residue on them. I wonder if there is any connection between the cement business in Mansfield on Dead Horse Lane, and two nearby taxidermy businesses (one sharing a back fence, the other a few doors up).

The location of the shovels might be a compromise. Being off a main-ish road would add to the potential explanations for them if they're found. Far enough from Wonnangatta and the disposal zone that the don't immediately point either to the R & C case or the bodies themselves. Still remote enough for there to be a fair chance that the shovels never will be found.

Your mention of cement leads me to think that the perpetrator returned at a later date to the dumping site and covered the bodies over. Shovels would be a better tool for that than burying.

 

[Monsoon]

The location of the shovels might be a compromise. Being off a main-ish road would add to the potential explanations for them if they're found. Far enough from Wonnangatta and the disposal zone that the don't immediately point either to the R & C case or the bodies themselves. Still remote enough for there to be a fair chance that the shovels never will be found.

Your mention of cement leads me to think that the perpetrator returned at a later date to the dumping site and covered the bodies over. Shovels would be a better tool for that than burying.

Very interesting idea that it may have been at a later date. This would fit better with the thought that a passer by saw items being discarded. I had wondered why that wouldn't have been reported to police for so long, but perhaps it was a recent report? It doesn't seem to be a tip off from a perpetrator because it's not the actual body site.

 

[Monsoon]

The location of the shovels might be a compromise. Being off a main-ish road would add to the potential explanations for them if they're found. Far enough from Wonnangatta and the disposal zone that the don't immediately point either to the R & C case or the bodies themselves. Still remote enough for there to be a fair chance that the shovels never will be found.

Your mention of cement leads me to think that the perpetrator returned at a later date to the dumping site and covered the bodies over. Shovels would be a better tool for that than burying.

And if you had disposed of bodies in an old mineshaft, but saw that police were *still* setting sniffer dogs around, you might really want to cement things in.

 

[Theodora]

I read it twice thinking she meant to say "realist". It's possible she did?

NoCookies | The Australian

What a strange article.

Edit, I had to google the meaning of sadist because I couldn’t get my head around it in that context. I’m still not sure I have.

 

[JLZ]

I read it twice thinking she meant to say "realist". It's possible she did?

Did she think sad-ist meant pessimist?

 

[SouthAussie]

I notice in The Australian article that it says ...

"The shovels are still being forensically examined, and a week later the search was redirected back to the campgrounds of Wonnangatta where the pair first vanished from."

I wonder if they found something on the shovels that makes them think they were used in the campground area.

Was it in the Ristevski case that they analysed the dirt on the shovel to see exactly where that shovel had been?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Like soil, and or plant life that was not found at Mt Hotham but was present at the Wonnangatta campsite or surrounds.

I wonder if they found something on the shovels that makes them think they were used in the campground area.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It brings to mind a few other cases.

 

[JLZ]

I notice in The Australian article that it says ...

"The shovels are still being forensically examined, and a week later the search was redirected back to the campgrounds of Wonnangatta where the pair first vanished from."

I wonder if they found something on the shovels that makes them think they were used in the campground area.

Was it in the Ristevski case that they analysed the dirt on the shovel to see exactly where that shovel had been?

Ristevski case, yes they did. But the result didn't help them to find her.

 

[SouthAussie]

Ristevski case, yes they did. But the result didn't help them to find her.

But it helped nail Borce down for Karen's murder.


Police have seized a shovel from the home Karen Ristevski shared with her husband and believe soil samples from it could solve the mystery of her murder.
Testing on the shovel revealed two soil types, the Herald Sun reports.

One matched soil behind the family home in Melbourne, leading police to begin their initial search along the Maribyrnong River.
The other matched soil found in the Gisborne-Macedon area where her remains were found by a bushwalker at Mount Macedon on Monday.
Police seize shovel from the home of Karen Ristevski | Daily Mail Online

 

[everybodhi]

I don't know if RbH knew. Really knew. Seriously. She says she is a loner, we know RH was never home, if she was getting all her information through him she wouldn't know. People might think "oh, she knows - how couldn't she?" But denial is a powerful defense mechanism and if she didn't spend her time alone bettering herself in some way, she might be in no position to "just move on". She is 71. If the RH/CC barn burner has been going on for 20 years all parties were in their 50's when this started. Not an enviable position to be in if you have been a housewife all that time with nothing to fall back on. Turning a blind eye to the point of ignorance to what is going on around you could be more comfortable until one day it can't be ignored anymore.

Wonder how much all that camping gear cost? $$$$$ is my guess. Wonder how many camping trips RbH got to go on?

Even if she did tell RA she knew, that doesn’t make it true.
I don’t know what kind of rapport she has with him, but I doubt he’s really a close confidant, even though he implies to the media he knows everything about her and her husband’s relationship.
jmo
Edited to add: and RH and CC’s relationship, too.