Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[Theodora]

IMO you're correct

IMO, the perps were known to Russell and/or Carol, and this was not a random crime of opportunity by a lunatic, or two or three, albeit smart and physically strong ones.

 

[tmar]

I'm getting chills reading these posts

I am just 'passing' so many.

 

[Monsoon]

If we speculate that this was a murder caused by unhinged/drug-affected hunters - what might be the motive? I always thought that most types of deer hunting was legal so it would have to be something illegal - for example you can only hunt Hog Deer after 1 April and the bag limit is 1. Perhaps this activity was captured by drone footage - either at the time, and/or in the previous camping (11-13 march). If so, who was getting taxidermy done on Hog deer in March 2020, perhaps in Mansfield? Do they have a white dual cab ute?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

This was from 2015 but I imagine it's still happening these days.


https://www.theage.com.au/national/...dy-count-piles-up-police-20150112-12memw.html

Police are investigating a country Victorian crime racket involving deer being poached and their heads being swapped for the drug ice.

Farmers who smelt rotting flesh wafting from the bush are now finding the headless carcasses piling up in growing numbers on properties in the state's high country and Gippsland.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Deer hunters fire into Victorian front yards

"We've had incidents of deer being shot in people's front yards, on roads in front of their houses and also in more remote bushland areas, which is still of concern.

"People will shoot deer under spotlight off roads which is highly dangerous to other users of the road.

"They also can't tell what's beyond the light, so you don't know if people are camping in the bush etcetera.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

This was from 2015 but I imagine it's still happening these days.


https://www.theage.com.au/national/...dy-count-piles-up-police-20150112-12memw.html

Police are investigating a country Victorian crime racket involving deer being poached and their heads being swapped for the drug ice.

Farmers who smelt rotting flesh wafting from the bush are now finding the headless carcasses piling up in growing numbers on properties in the state's high country and Gippsland.

I don’t think it’s been reported on much lately but there’s no reason to think it wouldn’t still be happening. I’m in Gippsland.
I don’t live near bushland and not very many deer around me, but unfortunately we’ve had the house lit up by shooters a couple of times.
It upset one of the horses (I’m Assuming they lit him up and the house was about 20m from the horse.) so in a fit of annoyance I turned on all the house lights and opened the curtains to make the house more visible and went out with my torch which happens to be a handheld spotlight to calm the horse and they did it again, lighting up both me and the horse and holding the light on us. I put my spotlight back on them so they’d realize it wasn’t something to shoot. If they had any sense they’d have known they couldn’t shoot in that direction anyway, because of multiple houses (Which are quite clearly visible from all directions and not concealed in anyway) and anything above basic intelligence and a respectful attitude would have told them perhaps the houses don’t want spotlights shone on them to start with. But hey.

So yes. Sadly I think the Rambo mentality for want of a better name is a bit too prevalent.

 

[Marchalot]

If we speculate that this was a murder caused by unhinged/drug-affected hunters - what might be the motive? I always thought that most types of deer hunting was legal so it would have to be something illegal - for example you can only hunt Hog Deer after 1 April and the bag limit is 1. Perhaps this activity was captured by drone footage - either at the time, and/or in the previous camping (11-13 march). If so, who was getting taxidermy done on Hog deer in March 2020, perhaps in Mansfield? Do they have a white dual cab ute?

About 8-10 yrs ago. A friends younger sweet sister was flirted with by a few of the men up there at the races . She politely ignored them , but the wives , partners wouldn't let go of it & made her life hell. Too cut a long story short , these ppl were semi professional s & on the day appeared to be high ! threw her around a bit out of the sight of other's, inc men. Too cover their actions, they framed her. She was warned not too say anything or make waves . Hence she's never been back. She was broken for a period of time bc of this. .. I've heard quiet a few stories of that place... . Besides it's surrounding beauty, Mansfield is a overpriced s##thole

 

[DannyMosquito]

There is a TV show where the first guy on the scene describes what he found in the truck
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lJFSy9ijLyc&ved=2ahUKEwik5OuytJzwAhVZIDQIHRtyD_AQo7QBegQIBRAE&usg=AOvVaw1_ESWb4R4nlh0yXXY5XMR8

Police have found no sign of sleeping bag zippers in the fire debris, leading to speculation they may have been removed along with bodies.
Police 'close' to cracking high profile missing persons case

From what i can tell many sleeping bags now days have plastic or nylon zippers. In fact I believe many prefer this as they are lighter and insulate better.

 

[Intriguedbymissingpersons]

From 2019

No Cookies | The Weekly Times

“
HUNTERS were caught illegally spotlighting deer and native wildlife in Northeast Victoria over the weekend.

The Game Management Authority officers have interviewed three different groups of shooters who have had their firearms seized and will be further investigated for allegedly engaging in illegal spotlighting.

The officers are also investigating the men for alleged firearms offences as well as driving and shooting protected wildlife.”

“During the early hours of the morning, GMA Officers interviewed a total of eight men in relation to offences including possessing a firearm and spotlight in deer habitat, hunting game at night and shooting protected wildlife,” Mr Stevens said.

“A total of five firearms, nearly 500 live rounds of ammunition, ten high powered torches and spotlights, one thermal imaging unit and a number of dead protected animal species, including possums and birds, were seized by GMA officers

“If you are travelling with a firearm in a vehicle between 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise in recognised deer habitat, you must ensure the firearm and ammunition are stored securely and not readily accessible.”

If we speculate that this was a murder caused by unhinged/drug-affected hunters - what might be the motive? I always thought that most types of deer hunting was legal so it would have to be something illegal - for example you can only hunt Hog Deer after 1 April and the bag limit is 1. Perhaps this activity was captured by drone footage - either at the time, and/or in the previous camping (11-13 march). If so, who was getting taxidermy done on Hog deer in March 2020, perhaps in Mansfield? Do they have a white dual cab ute?

 

[Monsoon]

From 2019

No Cookies | The Weekly Times

“
HUNTERS were caught illegally spotlighting deer and native wildlife in Northeast Victoria over the weekend.

The Game Management Authority officers have interviewed three different groups of shooters who have had their firearms seized and will be further investigated for allegedly engaging in illegal spotlighting.

The officers are also investigating the men for alleged firearms offences as well as driving and shooting protected wildlife.”

“During the early hours of the morning, GMA Officers interviewed a total of eight men in relation to offences including possessing a firearm and spotlight in deer habitat, hunting game at night and shooting protected wildlife,” Mr Stevens said.

“A total of five firearms, nearly 500 live rounds of ammunition, ten high powered torches and spotlights, one thermal imaging unit and a number of dead protected animal species, including possums and birds, were seized by GMA officers

“If you are travelling with a firearm in a vehicle between 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise in recognised deer habitat, you must ensure the firearm and ammunition are stored securely and not readily accessible.”

wow! interesting- shows the scope of illegal activities that RH may have witnessed

 

[Kemug]

This is all so scary! Why are there so many of this type of men? (sorry, I'm being sexist!) I realise that not all men can be studying, or at choir practice, or at a Rotary club meeting, etc, etc - but why do so many have to go feral? It seems to me that if Carol and Russell did indeed fall foul of hunters, then the choices are:

1. They saw something they shouldn't have, hence they "had" to be eliminated
2. They came across some Rambos who killed them for any old reason, even for fun
3. They argued with someone, who then killed them
4. They were accidentally killed by someone

What have I missed?

The only thing I have to add to this, is that I doubt the perps were drunk and drugged out, not with that level of clearing up.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Perhaps a road rage thing where they were followed to their camp?

 

[Kemug]

Yes indeed, No 5.

 

[SouthAussie]

These articles came out 4 months after Russell and Carol disappeared. (July 2020)

WARNING: No need to read them - they both say virtually the same thing - and there are horrible pictures there of what the illegal hunters do to the deer.


The Bairnsdale Advertiser in East Gippsland is today reporting on continued illegal deer hunting around the Dargo area.

The paper outlines two serious illegal hunting issues confronting Castleburn farmer, Emile Theodore who said that "It's really difficult to explain what would inspire someone to come up here, shoot an animal at night then take nothing but the head".

He said that he had been woken at least three times a week after which it had become 'normal' to find a carcass with a missing head. "Thermal scopes have become popular with poachers so we're not seeing spotlights being shone off the road like we once were, which allows these guys to slip under the radar".

“Every second bloke has a thermal scope,” he said.

“It’s what’s behind the deer that they can’t see that’s the issue, what if it’s a horse or a cow or even worse a human?

Illegal hunting continues to impact us all - Australian Deer Association
Illegal hunting worry

 

[bearbear]

I asked this question months ago, but nobody understood what I was really getting at. I'll try again - did anyone apart from RA and RH hear Russell's last radio call?

yes, what if rh didnt actually make that last call and they were killed earlier,
and someone else set up and staged the campsite?
which would implicate rhs wife and his friend ra were involved somehow?

 

[Bats]

This certainly could be what happened, @SouthAussie, although I'm thinking such brazen activity would risk a passer-by witnessing RH and CC restrained somehow whilst the camp was desecrated.

On the other hand, it's likewise risking discovery to have two bodies in your vehicle whilst you vandalize and burn the campsite, wait 'til the fire has consumed what you want destroyed, then extinguish it.

@DianeElaine raises an interesting point in the post above: Snipped and BBM

[QUOTE="DianeElaine, post: 16783639, member: 104696"
And then, because no one wants to ride around with dead people in their vehicle, presumably the culprit(s) would have gone to a pre-selected grave site that night to bury them, or more likely early the following day, when they could see what they were doing. Sounds like “organized” thinking on the part of the perpetrator(s) to me, if that’s what happened. And as someone else recently posted, I also think there was more than 1 perpetrator..

The more i think about it, the less i think any perp would be connected or have known C and R.

The reason being is that someone known to them would have needed to follow them for 2 days before committing a crime...then moving them from that location to another afterwards. Wouldn't you think that after following them for 2 days deep into the bush that that was a remote enough spot to leave in order to not conceal your identity, without the need to move their bodies ...after all, one would have come fairly prepared...

It becomes easier to think that someone(s) quite random and in the vicinity, committed an equally random act....then afterwards, felt the need to remove C and R from the area....

To me it shows a lack of preparedness for someone(s) to feel the need to remove the bodies from where they were...especially being in a reasonably remote location already...


JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

This certainly could be what happened, @SouthAussie, although I'm thinking such brazen activity would risk a passer-by witnessing RH and CC restrained somehow whilst the camp was desecrated.

Probably not really any passers-by in that remote area.
The campsite was seen at 2pm the next day, burned down and cold .. and wasn't reported at that time.
Then 6 days later, other campers discovered the campsite ... and apparently did report it.


At 2pm that Saturday afternoon, a passer-by came across Russell and Carol's campsite.
Under Investigation examines the High Country mystery: The campfire hiding secrets and the missing drone - what happened to Russell and Carol

Other campers in the area discovered their burnt out campsite at Dry River Track six days later and Mr Hill's car was slightly scorched, but driveable.
Seniors' disappearance from campsite remains a mystery, but possibilities remain open

 

[Monsoon]

I'm still confused about the exact camp spot. In this link there is a map which says it was supplied by Vic police: High Country mystery deepens as police investigate 'new sightings' of missing campers

If this is indeed the true campsite, it is not very close to the toilet at Wonnangatta station? (35 mins walk).

 

[Monsoon]

If there was an unplanned spur-of-the-moment attack and murder at the campsite in Wonnangatta, and it happened just before sunset, then it would be a real problem for the attackers. They need to drive away, with bodies, in the dark, and they need to take them somewhere far enough away from the campsite, and then continue driving to get away from the that drop-off site. If the attackers were travelling from the campsite at Wonnangatta to the (latest search areas) Herne Spur Track -> Cynthia Range Track -> Dargo High Plains Road -> Olive Branch chain bay (something thrown from the car?) --- where would the logical place be to take the bodies? They can't walk too far so it has to be somewhere near a road. There are two dead-end roads marked on this map that may be a possible location.

 

[Monsoon]

If there was an unplanned spur-of-the-moment attack and murder at the campsite in Wonnangatta, and it happened just before sunset, then it would be a real problem for the attackers. They need to drive away, with bodies, in the dark, and they need to take them somewhere far enough away from the campsite, and then continue driving to get away from the that drop-off site. If the attackers were travelling from the campsite at Wonnangatta to the (latest search areas) Herne Spur Track -> Cynthia Range Track -> Dargo High Plains Road -> Olive Branch chain bay (something thrown from the car?) --- where would the logical place be to take the bodies? They can't walk too far so it has to be somewhere near a road. There are two dead-end roads marked on this map that may be a possible location.

However, if you knew about old gold mining sites, perhaps you would head for those? It's a longer drive but a better hiding place. From the Cynthia Range Track -> Dargo High Plains Road, you can go via the Grant historic gold mining area. If you want to get rid of bodies just before you rejoin the main-ish Dargo High Plains road, one location might be the old Reliance/Blair Athol site. See map of route to site, and close up of locations, and a link to the detailed document which notes that it is an easy walk down this hill down an old logging track. Dropbox - #39 OTHER.pdf - Simplify your life