Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[they'll get you]

Victoria Police confirmed to NCA NewsWire that search and rescue crews would not be returning to the site on Thursday morning.
It’s understood investigators are not searching anywhere else today and will await forensic results after two shovels were found in dense bush during the search just after midday.

NoCookies | The Australian

 

[Puzzles]

DBM Posted twice, in error.

 

[Puzzles]

Channel 7 Sunrise reports the shovels were found within hours of receiving the new information, 200 klms from the campsite in a place they believe has never been walked by humans, it is that remote.

That is a far fetched statement (pardon the pun) imo.

BBM
Video from The Age shows the effort LE took to clamber through such dense undergrowth.

"That is a far fetched statement" Maybe it isn't, @they'll get you, if we consider the following: I'm thinking LE must have received credible and detailed intelligence for where to search for items potentially linked to Russell and Carol's disappearance, because when viewed from above, it appears the location is truly "back of beyond".

Possibly LE were physically led to that precise spot by some savvy, sharp-eyed traveller, who'd spied the shovels – maybe when seeking to relieve themselves away from the road – and also realized the shovels should be left in situ and reported to the police. And as soon as that person reported the discovery, agreed to meet LE and guide them to the spot which he/she had marked in order to find it again. Or, if cell phone service is available there, he/she could have called in the information, and waited for LE to meet there.

All possible, and happening "within hours of receiving the new information"...n'est-ce pas?


https://www.theage.com.au/national/...issing-victorian-campers-20210414-p57ja9.html

 

[they'll get you]

I doubt these cheap $11.00 shovels would be a tradies preferred tool unless a call was made to someone
to buy some shovels and meet me at....
Could they have been used to move light soil or cement to cover Russell & Carol and not actually dig into soil?

Would DNA be recoverable from the handles left in the weather for so long?

 

[they'll get you]

BBM
Video from The Age shows the effort LE took to clamber through such dense undergrowth.

"That is a far fetched statement" Maybe it isn't, @they'll get you, if we consider the following: I'm thinking LE must have received credible and detailed intelligence for where to search for items potentially linked to Russell and Carol's disappearance, because when viewed from above, it appears the location is truly "back of beyond".

Possibly LE were physically led to that precise spot by some savvy, sharp-eyed traveller, who'd spied the shovels – maybe when seeking to relieve themselves away from the road – and also realized the shovels should be left in situ and reported to the police. And as soon as that person reported the discovery, agreed to meet LE and guide them to the spot which he/she had marked in order to find it again. Or, if cell phone service is available there, he/she could have called in the information, and waited for LE to meet there.

All possible, and happening "within hours of receiving the new information"...n'est-ce pas?


https://www.theage.com.au/national/...issing-victorian-campers-20210414-p57ja9.html

Or some traveller had reported seeing someone on the side of the road throwing something over the edge. Crimestoppers can be slow at sifting through leads.

 

[bearbear]

Police have abruptly paused their search efforts despite major breakthroughs in the baffling year-long case of two missing campers.
Abrupt pause in missing campers probe

i wonder why the abrupt pause, i thought they were spending the day there today?

 

[JLZ]

Police have abruptly paused their search efforts despite major breakthroughs in the baffling year-long case of two missing campers.
Abrupt pause in missing campers probe

i wonder why the abrupt pause, i thought they were spending the day there today?

Thinking is this a hoax? Or a serious misdirection from 'someone involved'? Like the drone perhaps? Weigh it up before spending more manpower looking silly.

 

[55663]

I doubt these cheap $11.00 shovels would be a tradies preferred tool unless a call was made to someone
to buy some shovels and meet me at....
Could they have been used to move light soil or cement to cover Russell & Carol and not actually dig into soil?

Would DNA be recoverable from the handles left in the weather for so long?

Looking at the wear marks of the shovel in his left hand i see heavy usage on the one corner with a blue arrow and what look like rock gouges with the red arrows. This to me seems like it was used to dig a hole in the ground. It's a very poor choice of earth moving equipment and i can see why it was thrown over the edge of a steep enbankment as ive tried to dig with one of those shovels in soggy wet soil and it was impossible with the shovel flat and standing on it. The only way you could dig a hole with one is on the side like seen in the photo. However i have also used one for shoveling sand into a cement mixer and mixing sand and cement in a wheel barrow and even though im right handed the paint wore evenly on both sides so this to me rules it was used by a tradie or used to move light soil or sand and cement. It actually looks like it was used to dig a hole in the soil. The paint is still fairly fresh on both shovels and the gouge marks seem it was used in Rocky soil. They are weak shovels and i dont think they could dig a deep hole with out bending in half.

 

[they'll get you]

Looking at the wear marks of the shovel in his left hand i see heavy usage on the one corner with a blue arrow and what look like rock gouges with the red arrows. This to me seems like it was used to dig a hole in the ground. It's a very poor choice of earth moving equipment and i can see why it was thrown over the edge of a steep enbankment as ive tried to dig with one of those shovels in soggy wet soil and it was impossible with the shovel flat and standing on it. The only way you could dig a hole with one is on the side like seen in the photo. However i have also used one for shoveling sand into a cement mixer and mixing sand and cement in a wheel barrow and even though im right handed the paint wore evenly on both sides so this to me rules it was used by a tradie or used to move light soil or sand and cement. It actually looks like it was used to dig a hole in the soil. The paint is still fairly fresh on both shovels and the gouge marks seem it was used in Rocky soil. They are weak shovels and i dont think they could dig a deep hole with out bending in half.

A pick might've been used to loosen the soil and then these shovels were used to remove the soil.
Where's the pick?

Two shovels = two people imo.

 

[55663]

Also the wear marks on the handle indicate it was stored in a ute tray and driven over some rough roads to cause the paint to wear off like that.

 

[they'll get you]

Police have abruptly paused their search efforts despite major breakthroughs in the baffling year-long case of two missing campers.
Abrupt pause in missing campers probe

i wonder why the abrupt pause, i thought they were spending the day there today?

Maybe look closer forensically before continuing?

 

[55663]

A pick might've been used to loosen the soil and then these shovels were used to remove the soil.
Where's the pick?

Two shovels = two people imo.

Yeah id use a pick over a shovel for digging out there but picks are expensive at Bunnings and so are good heavy duty pointed shovels. If they are a bit poor they may not have been able to justify spending over $100 at Bunnings for one use items.

 

[bearbear]

"From the outset, it was clear someone else was involved," Mr Bezzina said.
"Be it a hunter or some passerby camper, so it will be very interesting but they certainly haven't staged their own disappearance."
Mr Bezzina said the shovels may not lead to a breakthrough in the case, but they would be forensically examined.
"I don't think that it is so significant because they are shovels and not spades and you can't dig holes with shovels, but it has to be looked at," he said.
Third party 'clearly' involved in mysterious disappearance of campers

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

I wonder how many old mine shafts are between won and Hotham in any of the possible routes. I read that the ones around won were vertical? Horizontal? Whichever way makes it impractical for disposing of evidence/bodies.
But I wonder what the ones around Talbotville and Grant are like, now we know the person/s were on the move. In saying that though Talbotville and Grant are far more accessible than Won so you’d be more likely to be caught in the act.
Although I do feel like digging body sized holes with those square mouth shovels would be a good dose of karma.

 

[bearbear]

Looming theories suggest the couple were secret lovers because Mr Hill was married.
When asked if the affair theory would play a part in the investigation, Mr Bezzina said detectives would investigate "all avenues of inquiry".
"I think from the very outset as an investigator you look at all avenues of inquiry you have got," he said.
"The fact is they were having a clandestine affair of sorts and I think from the early aspect of the crime scene it was apparent to me that a third party was involved."
Third party 'clearly' involved in mysterious disappearance of campers

 

[they'll get you]

I wonder how many old mine shafts are between won and Hotham in any of the possible routes. I read that the ones around won were vertical? Horizontal? Whichever way makes it impractical for disposing of evidence/bodies.
But I wonder what the ones around Talbotville and Grant are like, now we know the person/s were on the move. In saying that though Talbotville and Grant are far more accessible than Won so you’d be more likely to be caught in the act.
Although I do feel like digging body sized holes with those square mouth shovels would be a good dose of karma.

That is an interesting thought!

Ol' Russell was making some frequent trips alone, could he/they have been prospecting in someone elses mine and was caught tresspassing?
Hey I'm just sleuthing out loud.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

"From the outset, it was clear someone else was involved," Mr Bezzina said.
"Be it a hunter or some passerby camper, so it will be very interesting but they certainly haven't staged their own disappearance."
Mr Bezzina said the shovels may not lead to a breakthrough in the case, but they would be forensically examined.
"I don't think that it is so significant because they are shovels and not spades and you can't dig holes with shovels, but it has to be looked at," he said.
Third party 'clearly' involved in mysterious disappearance of campers

That is an interesting thought!

Ol' Russell was making some frequent trips alone, could he/they have been prospecting in someone elses mine and was caught tresspassing?
Hey I'm just sleuthing out loud.

I guess, knowing he was thinking of going to dargo, perhaps he went via Talbotville or Grant or somewhere else like that and it all turned to you know what there, rather than in won. Then someone put the Ute back in won and set the camp on fire while someone else went up over Hotham for whatever reason and ditched the shovels on the way, possibly out of frustration at their uselessness as someone else amusingly said.
Only that would mean a very early start on the Saturday morning for RH and CC so probably cancel that anyway ‍

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think he misunderstood the reporters question when he said "it's been kept very quiet"

He answered at LE keeping some information to themselves when I think the question was that the perp or perps seem to have kept it to themselves...so far.

"From the outset, it was clear someone else was involved," Mr Bezzina said.
"Be it a hunter or some passerby camper, so it will be very interesting but they certainly haven't staged their own disappearance."
Mr Bezzina said the shovels may not lead to a breakthrough in the case, but they would be forensically examined.
"I don't think that it is so significant because they are shovels and not spades and you can't dig holes with shovels, but it has to be looked at," he said.
Third party 'clearly' involved in mysterious disappearance of campers

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Looks that way to me.

If they were two different kinds of shovels designed for different uses I think it might possibly be one person, but still could be two.

Two shovels = two people imo.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Maybe the abrupt finish might be because they have found Russell and Carol's bodies and don't want to release the info just yet.

Although if that was true, they probably would not have been able to remove the bodies without being seen by media or onlookers.

Victoria Police confirmed to NCA NewsWire that search and rescue crews would not be returning to the site on Thursday morning.