Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[55663]

Dbm

 

[55663]

Seems strange he was going out there so frequently with his drone in the lead up to him going missing. I dont think as a 70 year old he would be looking for mine shafts to prospect. And I dont think he was interested in buttons or illegal hunters.

I also find it extremely bizarre that the land cruiser was left locked after being rummaged through but not burnt out with the camp. If it was a hunter who accidentally shot one of them or felt threatened by having the drone fly over them for weeks they would have burnt the car too.

It looks like someone was hired to disperse of Russel and Carol then lock up the valuable ute and take the bank cards away so no one brakes in uses the money on them. IMO

 

[Kemug]

Maybe no-one had to rush off and buy shovels. Maybe the 2 shovels were one from Russell's vehicle, and one from the perp's.

 

[bearbear]

i agree and have always felt that russels vehicle is quite key in this, it being saved from burning and locked up after rummaging says quite a lot i think
sorry, meant as a reply to 55663s post

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It would be a bit of a coincidence if they were both identical looking.
But I imagine a shovel or spade would be something that campers might need, especially if there aren't any toilet facilities around.
Though Russell and Carol did have a toilet so maybe would have no need for a shovel.
I think Russell's friend would know if he usually took a shovel with him when they went camping.

Maybe no-one had to rush off and buy shovels. Maybe the 2 shovels were one from Russell's vehicle, and one from the perp's.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

NoCookies | The Australian

Detectives will wait for the results of forensic tests conducted on two shovels found in Mount Hotham yesterday – about a five-hour drive from Melbourne – before they continue to look for clues into the disappearance of Russell Hill and Carol Clay.

Yesterday Missing Persons Squad Detective Tony Combridge said he expected police to continue their search in the area, but today Victoria police said they will not return until they receive information about the two shovels.

 

[they'll get you]

Seems strange he was going out there so frequently with his drone in the lead up to him going missing. I dont think as a 70 year old he would be looking for mine shafts to prospect. And I dont think he was interested in buttons or illegal hunters.

I also find it extremely bizarre that the land cruiser was left locked after being rummaged through but not burnt out with the camp. If it was a hunter who accidentally shot one of them or felt threatened by having the drone fly over them for weeks they would have burnt the car too.

It looks like someone was hired to disperse of Russel and Carol then lock up the valuable ute and take the bank cards away so no one brakes in uses the money on them. IMO

RBBM
This is why I’ve always thought the murderer was known to them.

Russell’s ute was returned to his family.

 

[they'll get you]

It would be a bit of a coincidence if they were both identical looking.
But I imagine a shovel or spade would be something that campers might need, especially if there aren't any toilet facilities around.
Though Russell and Carol did have a toilet so maybe would have no need for a shovel.
I think Russell's friend would know if he usually took a shovel with him when they went camping.

A shovel would be crucial for a 4X4 for being bogged.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

NoCookies | The Australian

Yesterday detectives said they hoped to find Mr Hill’s missing drone, but police would not comment about any further discoveries beyond the shovels.

On Wednesday Police said they did not have any further information about the white ute, but had received a barrage of information about similar vehicles they would have to attempt to “match” with the one seen near Mr Hill’s and Ms Clay’s campsite.

 

[trixie_au]

These pics are the best I can get at the moment. Shovels and an evidence bag.

The shovels do look identical ... at least from the handles and shafts.

View attachment 292636 View attachment 292637

View attachment 292638 View attachment 292639

NoCookies | The Australian
Shovels taken into evidence in search for Russell Hill and Carol Clay

Wow Thanks for these pics. Just showed hubby and he said “totally useless to dig in that sort of country. That’s the sort of shovel someone from the city would buy thinking they could dig a hole up there.”
Curious and curiouser...

 

[they'll get you]

Coincidently a witness in the Karen Ristevski case saw a man with a shovel as well. Karen wasn’t ‘buried’ but wedged between logs and covered with bracken.


A local claims to have seen two men resembling Borce Ristevski and his brother near where Karen's 'badly decomposed' body was found wedged beneath logs in bushland.

The claims come as the driver who saw a man with a shovel at the scene says he will have no problem identifying the 'expressionless' man,

Karen Ristevski case to advance with shovel man evidence | Daily Mail Online

 

[TootsieFootsie]

When the shovels were found, that was the first thing that came to my mind.

Coincidently a witness in the Karen Ristevski case saw a man with a shovel as well.

 

[trixie_au]

Possibly LE were physically led to that precise spot by some savvy, sharp-eyed traveller, who'd spied the shovels – maybe when seeking to relieve themselves away from the road – and also realized the shovels should be left in situ and reported to the police. And as soon as that person reported the discovery, agreed to meet LE and guide them to the spot which he/she had marked in order to find it again. Or, if cell phone service is available there, he/she could have called in the information, and waited for LE to meet there.

Just talking to someone who works up at Hotham, and they said there was a large group of cyclists (Ride for Lily) on a 3 day ride between Bright and Hotham between 11-14 April. Wondering if they were the ones who spotted the shovels, going at a slower pace than cars, and having time to look around?

 

[nao]

Flat shovels are useful around fires. moo

 

[TootsieFootsie]

NoCookies | The Australian

A leading criminal psychologist believes missing campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay “met with foul play” and the latest discovery of two shovels is “enough” evidence for police to make their biggest breakthrough yet.

Criminal psychologist Tim Watson-Munro – who has gained the trust of some of Australia’s scariest men, such as Julian Knight and Alphonse Gangitano, in his line of work – expects the story to “unfold more rapidly” from hereon.

“This recent discovery suggests to me that police forensically have enough to start interviewing people,” he said.

“What forensic evidence is it, why has the search stopped now? Maybe there is DNA evidence on the shovels that links to someone police suspect already.”

 

[Dibba67]

What I don't quite understand is, assuming that this evidence is connected to RH and CC, why would someone travel all the way from Wonnangatta to Mount Hotham, ignoring an almost unlimited number of secluded places to dispose of shovels and whatever else, only to throw them off the side of the Great Alpine Road, which is a popular tourist road?

 

[JLZ]

NoCookies | The Australian

A leading criminal psychologist believes missing campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay “met with foul play” and the latest discovery of two shovels is “enough” evidence for police to make their biggest breakthrough yet.

Criminal psychologist Tim Watson-Munro – who has gained the trust of some of Australia’s scariest men, such as Julian Knight and Alphonse Gangitano, in his line of work – expects the story to “unfold more rapidly” from hereon.

“This recent discovery suggests to me that police forensically have enough to start interviewing people,” he said.

“What forensic evidence is it, why has the search stopped now? Maybe there is DNA evidence on the shovels that links to someone police suspect already.”

I think it's too soon for there to be DNA evidence. And last I saw police were still saying they don't know whether the shovels are relevant to the case or not.

 

[SouthAussie]

What I don't quite understand is, assuming that this evidence is connected to RH and CC, why would someone travel all the way from Wonnangatta to Mount Hotham, ignoring an almost unlimited number of secluded places to dispose of shovels and whatever else, only to throw them off the side of the Great Alpine Road, which is a popular tourist road?

People often use places they are familiar with to dispose of victims. Perhaps to the perps, the Great Alpine Road is secluded but they had also travelled that route before? The recent articles mention that some of the terrain that the officers were searching in this area may never have been trod on before.

At the moment, things do seem to be leaning toward the possibility that the perps may not be regulars/locals in this area.


"The choice of a particular body disposal location may reflect the offender’s familiarity with the area. The manner of the body disposal can also reflect the nature of the relationship between the offender and the victim."

Transported from the Murder Site and Concealed
These cases occurred when the victims’ bodies were transported from the murder sites to separate disposal sites and the bodies were concealed or hidden from view. The movement of the victims’ bodies by offenders increases the chances that an offender may be seen or identified in the vicinity of the murder site and/or disposal site. This movement is extremely risky for an offender, yet these offenders are compelled to move the victims. There are two main reasons offenders concealed victims’ bodies:

• To delay or prevent discovery

• In order to place time and distance between themselves and the victims

Why? Because offenders perceive that law enforcement will recognize some connection that will link them to the victim.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/serialmurder-pathwaysforinvestigations.pdf

 

[JLZ]

Why? Because offenders perceive that law enforcement will recognize some connection that will link them to the victim.

Bullets?

 

[Marchalot]

What if they are still in won & Hotham is on the way back from where they came from & disposed of shovels ,ect there? Or have gone the long route around for less surveillance and calm down from a terrible deed.. I do wonder who's boot print could be on that missing mirror