Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[ThaiBali]

The car could have been rummaged through to appear like a burglary gone wrong. The removal of items would give that impression but as far as locking it goes I'm not sure of the significance. If it was someone known to the victims perhaps they were counting on the car coming back into family possession and why burn it when it can be sold for a sum?

Do we know if the truck was fingerprinted before returning it to his family or was it only fingerprinted when it was retrieved from them? it looked pretty cleaned-up when it was returned to them the first time.

Would the police drive the truck back or ask a family member to collect it from Wonnongatta?

 

[ThaiBali]

They wouldn't have had any time to fly the drone. They arrived as it was getting dark and needed to set up camp. They were killed not long after arriving there according to police.

I find it odd the blackberry man was supposedly next to them and he missed it all.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

Maybe the blackberry sprayer didn’t miss it, they’re just not saying publicly what he saw.? Or maybe the sprayer isn’t saying.

There’s quite some time unaccounted for, they could have flown the drone before making the radio call. They stayed on Howitt plain or in heyfield the night before, there’s still that ‘’what did they do?’’ All day.

 

[Satchie]

I don't think that anything that LE says would be just talk.

There has to be a very good reason for them to move the search. I doubt very much they would put all their resources into a new search for no good reason at all.

For good reason, they can't reveal everything they know.

I agree, IMO, LE are not careless or incompetent, they do things for good reasons

This isn't something the media found out, police announced it in a news release. Police continue search for Russell Hill and Carol Clay in the Hotham area

Similar to how they announced they had found a drone, they don't have to do that, they can just go and search and keep this part of the investigation - as with most of the investigation - on the downlow. Hmmm.

They certainly have some kind of lead. Hope it pans out.

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe the blackberry sprayer didn’t miss it, they’re just not saying publicly what he saw.? Or maybe the sprayer isn’t saying.

There’s quite some time unaccounted for, they could have flown the drone before making the radio call. They stayed on Howitt plain or in heyfield the night before, there’s still that ‘’what did they do?’’ All day.

When they stayed at Wonnangatta Station might have been when they flew the drone. I wonder if we have had it wrong all this time, in thinking the blackberry sprayer was near their camp at Dry River Creek. Maybe the blackberry sprayer was near their camp at Wonnangatta Station. Do we know for sure? If so, I have missed it.

 

[Theodora]

I only recently read about the case & haven't been back to the earlier threads, so this has probably been discussed, but is it possible the person who set the fire hoped to start another bushfire and wipe out all evidence at the campsite? The bushfires in Victoria were only declared controlled in early March 2020 but perhaps that area had received saturating rain?

 

[SouthAussie]

I only recently read about the case & haven't been back to the earlier threads, so this has probably been discussed, but is it possible the person who set the fire hoped to start another bushfire and wipe out all evidence at the campsite? The bushfires in Victoria were only declared controlled in early March 2020 but perhaps that area had received saturating rain?

I don't think so. It was a very controlled fire. There was an Under Investigation show about it, where a fire expert spoke of his findings ... he thought the fire was very controlled and suggested that it burned quickly then it was extinguished with water.

The ground around the tent is not even burned at all. There are multiple guy wires that are burned where they attach to the tent and not burned where they attach to the ground.

 

[Theodora]

Wow, that's really interesting & suggestsa surprising amount of knowledge and skill about fires

I don't think so. It was a very controlled fire. There was an Under Investigation show about it, where a fire expert spoke of his findings ... he thought the fire was very controlled and suggested that it burned quickly then it was extinguished with water.

The ground around the tent is not even burned at all. There are multiple guy wires that are burned where they attach to the tent and not burned where they attach to the ground.

That's really interesting. The person who set the fire & then contained & extinguished it must have had a high level of knowledge & skill about fires, someone with similar bush skills to those I imagine Russell Hill had himself.

 

[SouthAussie]

That's really interesting. The person who set the fire & then contained & extinguished it must have had a high level of knowledge & skill about fires, someone with similar bush skills to those I imagine Russell Hill had himself.

I personally can't buy into the theory that Russell did this to himself and Carol.

The first reason is that the police have indicated that a 3rd party (and possible accomplice) is involved, and they know a heck of a lot more about this than we do.

The other reasons I have range from ....
- Russell's wife already knew about the relationship (no reason to conceal it).
- Carol had planned to be with Russell for the full week, if she was going to leave him (reason for him to murder her) she likely would not have even gone away with him.
- If Carol thought Russell capable of harming her, she likely would not have gone to a remote and isolated place with him.
- There is no reason to conceal the bodies if it was a murder/suicide, and most suicides are not concealed (as discussed by Jubes about the Melissa Caddick case).
- Why on earth would Russell murder Carol then take off and leave behind everything he had worked for in his life?

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

When they stayed at Wonnangatta Station might have been when they flew the drone. I wonder if we have had it wrong all this time, in thinking the blackberry sprayer was near their camp at Dry River Creek. Maybe the blackberry sprayer was near their camp at Wonnangatta Station. Do we know for sure? If so, I have missed it.

They’re relatively close. I don’t think in a line of sight but only a couple of minute drive across the open valley.

Edit: maybe 5min. My sense of time was skewed because it was a flat track. time flies when you’re having fun sitting in comfort instead of the bone jarring 4wd rubbish of the preceding hours LOl.

 

[Theodora]

I personally can't buy into the theory that Russell did this to himself and Carol.

The first reason is that the police have indicated that a 3rd party (and possible accomplice) is involved, and they know a heck of a lot more about this than we do.

The other reasons I have range from ....
- Russell's wife already knew about the relationship (no reason to conceal it).
- Carol had planned to be with Russell for the full week, if she was going to leave him (reason for him to murder her) she likely would not have even gone away with him.
- If Carol thought Russell capable of harming her, she likely would not have gone to a remote and isolated place with him.
- There is no reason to conceal the bodies if it was a murder/suicide, and most suicides are not concealed (as discussed by Jubes about the Melissa Caddick case).
- Why on earth would Russell murder Carol then take off and leave behind everything he had worked for in his life?

I personally can't buy into the theory that Russell did this to himself and Carol.

The first reason is that the police have indicated that a 3rd party (and possible accomplice) is involved, and they know a heck of a lot more about this than we do.

The other reasons I have range from ....
- Russell's wife already knew about the relationship (no reason to conceal it).
- Carol had planned to be with Russell for the full week, if she was going to leave him (reason for him to murder her) she likely would not have even gone away with him.
- If Carol thought Russell capable of harming her, she likely would not have gone to a remote and isolated place with him.
- There is no reason to conceal the bodies if it was a murder/suicide, and most suicides are not concealed (as discussed by Jubes about the Melissa Caddick case).
- Why on earth would Russell murder Carol then take off and leave behind everything he had worked for in his life?

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought Russell killed Carol or himself. I agree with all your points. I don't believe they ran away together. At their ages, financial security is essential and I believe they would at very least have gone to live together in Carol's new home, even if Russell sought no property from the dissolution of his marriage.

My belief is that they were killed by a third party who was as skilled a bushman (yes I think likely a man, even if there was a woman accomplice) whose bush skills were at least as great as those Russell is said to have possessed. If the person is ever found, it may well turn out to be someone who either has gone on previous camping trips with Russell (with or without Carol), or who has met him during one of those trips.

 

[k-mac]

Hello Sleuths, my first post. I joined as i am really interested in this case and found this forum....all 120 or so pages of it!

IMO... the Police are very close to cracking this one. The Police probably have stacks of info that they, for one reason or another, don't release to the media.

After a bit over a year of investigating the Police choose to tell the media they are going to search an area that is extremely specific and a long way from the last contact of Carol and Russel. Lo an behold, less than a day into that search they find two shovels. Not a rake, not some secateurs, but shovels. I am sure that not all searches are released to the media, so why this one?

IMO, they went to this location and found exactly what they were looking for. And it is the Police that are connecting this to the disappearances, not the media.

I expect that an arrest is imminent.

welcome Bats

I agree and share your enthusiasm

 

[55663]

IMO I dont think there's anyway Russell could burn the tent like that with only his gas bottle as a flame thrower and if he left it on in the middle of the tent it would have blown the tent and its items around the camp site upon ignition. If the gas bottle was used it seems the only way would be to hold it like a giant flame thrower and walk around the tent setting everything on fire. You would have to be pretty wild pick up a flame throwing gas bottle then walk around the tent with it

It seems more like petrol was used, just pour it over the tent and stand back. It would soak into the fabric and burn for longer than bbq gas. I'm surprised they did no full scale tests with bbq gas and petrol to see which would burn the camp site down completely like that.

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO I dont think there's anyway Russell could burn the tent like that with only his gas bottle as a flame thrower and if he left it on in the middle of the tent it would have blown the tent and its items around the camp site upon ignition. If the gas bottle was used it seems the only way would be to hold it like a giant flame thrower and walk around the tent setting everything on fire. You would have to be pretty wild pick up a flame throwing gas bottle then walk around the tent with it

It seems more like petrol was used, just pour it over the tent and stand back. It would soak into the fabric and burn for longer than bbq gas. I'm surprised they did no full scale tests with bbq gas and petrol to see which would burn the camp site down completely like that.

The experts on Under Investigation think two gas bottles were lit inside the tent and left burning. The tent fabric wouldn't light well and stay alight, during their testing. But the constantly burning gas kept re-igniting the fire until the tent completely burned. Then the fire was extinguished.

The episode is here if anyone wants to watch it.

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[JLZ]

When they stayed at Wonnangatta Station might have been when they flew the drone. I wonder if we have had it wrong all this time, in thinking the blackberry sprayer was near their camp at Dry River Creek. Maybe the blackberry sprayer was near their camp at Wonnangatta Station. Do we know for sure? If so, I have missed it.

I don't think R & C had two camps in the area . . . the previous night they camped at Howitt High Plains. When Russell said that he was at Wonnangatta Station he might have meant at the historical area with the cemetery and toilets, or he might have meant where his campsite was found near Dry River Track & Creek, a couple of kilometres along.

Can someone point me to a link about the blackberry sprayer please? Particularly about where the person was camped. ThaiBali said the blackberry sprayer was "next to them". (I would find it very annoying if someone camped right up against me when there were several square kilometres to choose from.)

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't think R & C had two camps in the area . . . the previous night they camped at Howitt High Plains. When Russell said that he was at Wonnangatta Station he might have meant at the historical area with the cemetery and toilets, or he might have meant where his campsite was found near Dry River Track & Creek, a couple of kilometres along.

Can someone point me to a link about the blackberry sprayer please? Particularly about where the person was camped. ThaiBali said the blackberry sprayer was "next to them". (I would find it very annoying if someone camped right up against me when there were several square kilometres to choose from.)

The only reference I have seen to the blackberry sprayer is in the Under Investigation show. They were speaking of him being cranky about the drone being flown overhead IIRC.
I agree that he wasn't next to Russell and Carol, but somewhere nearby - within drone range.

 

[JLZ]

The only reference I have seen to the blackberry sprayer is in the Under Investigation show. They were speaking of him being cranky about the drone being flown overhead IIRC.
I agree that he wasn't next to Russell and Carol, but somewhere nearby - within drone range.

Thanks. Drone range could be quite a long way couldn't it? I think I saw posted here a video of a drone's capture as it flew over the whole of that open area, about 4km long.

If Russell was camped a little way up Dry River Track--I have a spot in mind, from aerial view--his camp wouldn't have been in sight from anyone camping just by Wonnangatta River.

 

[madoodi]

Hi fellow Sleuths.
I have been following the case for a while but only recently started catching up on the threads.

I apologise in advance if this has been discussed already... but is it possible that RH set up camp the week before and he and C came to find the site burnt or burning? Hence why the car was not that fire damaged. They then lock the car with their belongings...take the drone to see if they can spot the culprits? And that's when they confront their attackers?
This might explain why there was no use of the toilet too.

JMO. Pure speculation.

 

[JLZ]

Hi fellow Sleuths.
I have been following the case for a while but only recently started catching up on the threads.

I apologise in advance if this has been discussed already... but is it possible that RH set up camp the week before and he and C came to find the site burnt or burning? Hence why the car was not that fire damaged. They then lock the car with their belongings...take the drone to see if they can spot the culprits? And that's when they confront their attackers?
This might explain why there was no use of the toilet too.

JMO. Pure speculation.

It sounds to me an odd thing to do but I'm not a camper. He wasn't in the river valley the week before as far as I know but about 20km off as the crow flies. He camped at Howitt the night before . . . in a tent I suppose. Perhaps he had two tents. Perhaps he set up both tents the week before. When he radioed from the valley he said he hadn't set up yet. So, it's only speculation from me too, but my speculation is that he set up a tent just when he needed to use one.

 

[Theodora]

The experts on Under Investigation think two gas bottles were lit inside the tent and left burning. The tent fabric wouldn't light well and stay alight, during their testing. But the constantly burning gas kept re-igniting the fire until the tent completely burned. Then the fire was extinguished.

The episode is here if anyone wants to watch it.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

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Thank you for the link to the Under Investigation episode.