Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[curiouser and curiouser]

Logistically thinking, how many cement bags and how much water would you need to cover up that situation, because you’d have to haul it in to where the mine shafts are and then you’d have to spend a bit of time there doing that wouldn’t you? AT a decent risk of being caught in a very unexplainable situation.
I suppose once they’re down a mineshaft though (if that’s what happened) you can’t really get them back out again so your ‘covering up’ methods would be limited. Just thinking out loud. I feel like the shovels are more likely to be owned by (or obtained from) a concretor... ohhhh I’ve just worked out what the previous poster might have meant with the concrete yard being over the back fence from the taxidermists.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

ohhhh I’ve just worked out what the previous poster might have meant with the concrete yard being over the back fence from the taxidermists.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

Is that a shocked face - Can you clarify which bit shocked you? The emojis don’t show very clearly on my phone.

 

[JLZ]

Not sure where Monsoon was at, but I was thinking deer heads not mannequins.

 

[Monsoon]

Not sure where Monsoon was at, but I was thinking deer heads not mannequins.

yep, was trying to think about links between deer hunters and concreters. I also have a strong feeling that the suspects could be from Mansfield, because of its proximity to the King Billy/ Bluff tracks that are of police interest. And psychologically, I think if you killed someone and then panicked, that you would take the evidence (bodies) in the opposite direction of your home base. If this was the case, you would head east from Wonnangatta, get rid of evidence, then perhaps go north to Harrietville and back around to Mansfield.

 

[Monsoon]

Logistically thinking, how many cement bags and how much water would you need to cover up that situation, because you’d have to haul it in to where the mine shafts are and then you’d have to spend a bit of time there doing that wouldn’t you? AT a decent risk of being caught in a very unexplainable situation.
I suppose once they’re down a mineshaft though (if that’s what happened) you can’t really get them back out again so your ‘covering up’ methods would be limited. Just thinking out loud. I feel like the shovels are more likely to be owned by (or obtained from) a concretor... ohhhh I’ve just worked out what the previous poster might have meant with the concrete yard being over the back fence from the taxidermists.

good point, it would be heavy, but you may only need a bag or so, and water, to pour down say a mineshaft. And that might be near to where a car (or ute) could get to, because the initial disposal was also heavy.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

I think You’d need to cover them with concrete reaaaaally well. I don’t think you Could have any missed edges or the sniffer dogs would still pick it up, at a guess. And it’s not going to just all Fall down a mineshaft and land magically in the right place. You’d need to add extra to account for the margin of error.
I think imploding the mineshaft would be more likely to succeed but I guess it comes back to what they hadn’t access to. Which makes the concrete yard and taxidermist in Mansfield situation even more confronting. I wonder where in Mansfield the illegal silencers are sold.

To clarify - I did mean ‘haul’ in the back of a 4wd rather than carry by hand.

Edit: the problem with concrete is as soon as the police saw it in the middle of nowhere they’d know it’s suspicious.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

I also have a strong feeling that the suspects could be from Mansfield, because of its proximity to the King Billy/ Bluff tracks that are of police interest. And psychologically, I think if you killed someone and then panicked, that you would take the evidence (bodies) in the opposite direction of your home base. If this was the case, you would head east from Wonnangatta, get rid of evidence, then perhaps go north to Harrietville and back around to Mansfield.

Is there a reason you think Mansfield rather than Licola/heyfield?

 

[everybodhi]

I think You’d need to cover them with concrete reaaaaally well. I don’t think you Could have any missed edges or the sniffer dogs would still pick it up, at a guess. And it’s not going to just all Fall down a mineshaft and land magically in the right place. You’d need to add extra to account for the margin of error.
I think imploding a mineshaft would be more likely to succeed but I guess it comes back to what they hadn’t access to. Which makes the concrete yard and taxidermist in Mansfield situation even more confronting. I wonder where in Mansfield the illegal silencers are sold.

To clarify - I did mean ‘haul’ in the back of a 4wd rather than carry by hand.

Edit: the problem with concrete is as soon as the police saw it in the middle of nowhere they’d know it’s suspicious.

Imploding a mineshaft might work.
Cadaver dogs can not only sniff out a body buried 15 feet underground, they can detect a body under several inches of concrete.

A child's remains were discovered under several inches of concrete at a former children's home in Jersey after police bought in dogs to search the site.

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | How can a dog sniff through concrete?

Experts: Cadaver dogs 95 percent accurate, can smell remains 15 feet underground

 

[SouthAussie]

The DT also put out an article today, about Russell's wife's "shock comment".

In the article there is a pic of inside the rear of the ute. If a bullet (even from a high powered rifle) went into the side panels, surely it would have been lodged inside? Could the police have found a bullet?



Also, the article says that investigators were told that Russell and Carol were camping together near the Wonnangatta camping ground at Wonnangatta River.

Wife of missing camper Russell Hill wants him found to ‘face the music’

 

[SouthAussie]

The other thing that the DT article says that I hadn't noticed before is that detectives have established that Russell camped by himself between 11th and 13th March "in the area of the King Billy and Bluff Track".
Police would also like to speak with anyone who was in that area at that time.

Perhaps the police are looking for the possibility of a dispute or incident from that time spilling over?

 

[Monsoon]

Is there a reason you think Mansfield rather than Licola/heyfield?

No great reason, just speculation really! Mainly because of the proximity to the Howitt Plains, and then of the search of the road up near Harrietville. Makes me think it's less likely they were travelling south to Licola/Dargo/Gippsland. But probably not from Harrietville itself as that is a long way from the Howitt Plains for recreation.

 

[Kemug]

Re covering bodies in a mineshaft with concrete - are the mineshafts in that area vertical, or sloping? If vertical, I think dumping several wheelbarrow loads of dirt on top would be better than concrete, much less noticeable. And sniffer dogs would be too far away perhaps?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder if it's something like other campers not wanting to be filmed by a drone

I don't mean because they were doing anything wrong, but what if someone wrongly thought their children or family was deliberately being filmed by the drone and went to have it out and things escalated from there.

Perhaps the police are looking for the possibility of a dispute or incident from that time spilling over?

 

[everybodhi]

I wonder if it's something like other campers not wanting to be filmed by a drone

I don't mean because they were doing anything wrong, but what if someone wrongly thought their children or family was deliberately being filmed by the drone and went to have it out and things escalated from there.

There’s tons of articles about people shooting down drones and several helpful YouTube instruction videos on what works best for this (shotgun) but people may get upset when they suddenly lose their $2000 toy.
I was sunbathing by my daughters pool in San Antonio and noticed a drone, not over her yard but it could obviously see me, I got a little upset that I lost my privacy and don’t even know who is watching me.
I didn’t shoot it though, I just went inside.
I can see how it would be unwelcome during my private camp time after driving way out into the wilderness.

Woman shoots drone: “It hovered for a second and I blasted it to smithereens.”

With a single shotgun blast, a 65-year-old woman in rural northern Virginia recently shot down a drone flying over her property.

Drone Laws in Australia | UAV Coach (2021)

You must keep your drone at least 30 meters away from other people.

You must not fly over or above people. This could include beaches, parks, events, or sport ovals where there is a game in progress.

Respect personal privacy. Don’t record or photograph people without their consent—this may breach state laws.

 

[Marchalot]

I feel a bit funny posting this comment and I don't read anything into it obviously. . About 3/5 days ago, I said to myself " send a dream to me about this. Laughed it off & forgot about it . Anyway, this morning or last night a few seconds of a dream came to me about it....it's not pleasant... I saw a garage & it was bathed in a dark red/maroon hue. Nightime.. I glided past a chainsaw & bench, a big one . The garage belonging to a house up high country somewhere. ... Then I woke ...... hope this doesn't offend anyone. Sorry

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I was thinking about where you could hide a body. Seems plenty of places there if you know the area well enough.

Then I thought of the long drop toilet. I googled it and there have been cases where people fell down them and a case in Victoria where body parts were found in one. https://www.smh.com.au/national/police-find-remainder-of-torsos-body-20080411-25ea.html

I imagine the toilets have been checked out. Are they ones that have a big long pan, or ones that are just a hole in the ground. Sort of hiding in plain sight.

 

[everybodhi]

I was thinking about where you could hide a body. Seems plenty of places there if you know the area well enough.

Then I thought of the long drop toilet. I googled it and there have been cases where people fell down them and a case in Victoria where body parts were found in one. https://www.smh.com.au/national/police-find-remainder-of-torsos-body-20080411-25ea.html

I imagine the toilets have been checked out. Are they ones that have a big long pan, or ones that are just a hole in the ground. Sort of hiding in plain sight.

 

[Theodora]

I've used pit toilets that have holes that go down maybe 4 metres. They last a long time in use. I assume that's what is meant because it is a "long drop"

I imagine the toilets have been checked out. Are they ones that have a big long pan, or ones that are just a hole in the ground. Sort of hiding in plain sight.

 

[everybodhi]

(Snip)
Also, the article says that investigators were told that Russell and Carol were camping together near the Wonnangatta camping ground at Wonnangatta River.

Wife of missing camper Russell Hill wants him found to ‘face the music’

Supposedly, the only people who knew they were traveling together was her family, if I remember correctly.