Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

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  • #481
Anyone here feeling adventurous? lol...I am becoming obsessed with Wonnangatta Valley...in a good way.
Here is a great 7 minute video clip showing what it is like to drive from the Wonnangatta Valley station to the little town of Dargo. You literally are sitting in the 4 wheel drive vehicle, and this is what RH and CC apparently loved to do...amazing. Driving and riding these roads isn't for the faint of heart. There are several youtube videos on Sambar hunting in the Wonnangatta Valley that were to heavy for me to watch...but the area is rugged untamed beauty, imo.
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  • #482
All this has been discussed here before. No one knows much about him. But given his fast knowledge of the place, he’d be a good person to ask where to hide bodies or where the most dangerous spots are to be found. He can sneak up on you like a cat. He probably knows every trail in the area. If I were LE, I’d be asking for his help. Not trying to pin murders on him.
Yes, good point...he could offer LE not only a glimpse into the not readily observable aspects of the area--but I am sure he holds a lot of information of things he has witnessed there over the many years...
 
  • #483
Panda, I hope LE has taken a closer look at Mr. Buttons and his various collection of things...since it has been reported that Mr. Button's is a nomadic dweller in the Wonnangatta Valley with no specific home base, LE needs to canvass places in the valley where Mr. Buttons could have hidden and stored his belongings. According to various news articles about him, Mr. Buttons seems like he has taken psychological possession of the valley, and views anything in it as being under his authority and control...he reminds me of the childhood story about The Troll Under The Bridge...
I've read that he had a home base near the "cross-roads". From various other clues in the articles, I have a theory which place is meant. But that's the other side of Howitt Plains from Wonnangatta Valley.
 
  • #484
I've read that he had a home base near the "cross-roads". From various other clues in the articles, I have a theory which place is meant. But that's the other side of Howitt Plains from Wonnangatta Valley.
Yep.. down the other side at the headwaters of the Howqua
And ... mystery man 'Buttons' is just a harmless eccentric being dragged into the abyss by sections of the grovelling media.
 
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  • #485
Are there any locals or regular campers to the area on this forum?

I'm wondering if there is an area where it is know that a mobile phone signal can be received? Even if it is irregular /intermitant? Thinking maybe a high area or one with line of sight to a tower.
 
  • #486
Does anyone know when Russell and Carol passed through Heyfield or Licola? They departed Carol's home (Pakenham) early on March 19, it doesn't take a day and a half to drive to the mountains. It's been said Russell planned to camp along the Dargo River, but I would have thought the Licola route a slightly odd way to get there. Licola looks like it could be on the way to Howitt Plains . . . perhaps they planned to go to Dargo after Howitt and Wonnangatta, days later.
 
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  • #487
  • #488
Are there any locals or regular campers to the area on this forum?

I'm wondering if there is an area where it is know that a mobile phone signal can be received? Even if it is irregular /intermitant? Thinking maybe a high area or one with line of sight to a tower.
Yes.. at Macalister Springs near Mt Howitt .. we know this because Niels Becker made his last communication from here.
There is no comms in the valley... or anywhere nearby... unless you are a Radio Amateur with HF gear and a good aerial
 
  • #489
Yes.. at Macalister Springs near Mt Howitt .. we know this because Niels Becker made his last communication from here.
There is no comms in the valley... or anywhere nearby... unless you are a Radio Amateur with HF gear and a good aerial

I actually just googled the Wonnangatta Camping Ground and there was a comment in the reviews from someone posted three months ago, saying there was Telstra reception there.
 
  • #490
Yep.. down the other side at the headwaters of the Howqua
And ... mystery man 'Buttons' is just a harmless eccentric being dragged into the abyss by sections of the grovelling media.
good to know
 
  • #491
Based on Senior investigator at Victoria police Andrew Stamper's comments June 15th to Current Affairs...they thoroughly searched the area for a month looking for RH and CC...his opinion--they were removed from the valley or they've been concealed somewhere. "We would have found them by now if they were still up there." He added, the evidence was destroyed when their campsite was burned down...it was a premeditated and planned murder...
I think RH and CC are concealed somewhere in the valley...leaving the area with them would entail a lot more effort and more chances of getting caught. Having watched several videos of the area, disposing of bodies so they wouldn't be found doesn't seem difficult to me. The level of sophistication in covering up the abduction and murder of RH and CC suggests to me that someone put a lot of thought into killing the pair and/or this crime was done by a killer who was well versed in his dispatching methodology having practice committing other murders in the area. I don't think RH and CC will be found any time soon, and their disappearance will be only added to the list of other people who have mysteriously vanished in the valley. It seems like a sad ending to their love affair...but at least they were able to spend their last moments together in a place they cherished sharing with each other--the silvering lining to an otherwise disturbing conundrum.

*I am sure everyone has seen the article I am referring...but I just post it to support my comments here.

Missing Victorians likely 'carted out' of campsite by third party before mystery disappearance
 
  • #492
Anyone here feeling adventurous? lol...I am becoming obsessed with Wonnangatta Valley...in a good way.
Very interesting video trujac, looking out the windows at the expanse of bush in the Woonangatta Valley area was eye opening to the multiple possibilities :eek:
 
  • #493
Based on Senior investigator at Victoria police Andrew Stamper's comments June 15th to Current Affairs...they thoroughly searched the area for a month looking for RH and CC...his opinion--they were removed from the valley or they've been concealed somewhere. "We would have found them by now if they were still up there." He added, the evidence was destroyed when their campsite was burned down...it was a premeditated and planned murder...
I think RH and CC are concealed somewhere in the valley...leaving the area with them would entail a lot more effort and more chances of getting caught. Having watched several videos of the area, disposing of bodies so they wouldn't be found doesn't seem difficult to me. The level of sophistication in covering up the abduction and murder of RH and CC suggests to me that someone put a lot of thought into killing the pair and/or this crime was done by a killer who was well versed in his dispatching methodology having practice committing other murders in the area. I don't think RH and CC will be found any time soon, and their disappearance will be only added to the list of other people who have mysteriously vanished in the valley. It seems like a sad ending to their love affair...but at least they were able to spend their last moments together in a place they cherished sharing with each other--the silvering lining to an otherwise disturbing conundrum.

*I am sure everyone has seen the article I am referring...but I just post it to support my comments here.

Missing Victorians likely 'carted out' of campsite by third party before mystery disappearance

Correcting you trujac. He said it was unlikely to be planned or premeditated.

"It was unlikely an attack on the couple was "planned" or "premeditated", Inspector Stamper said

The strongest theory is that it is something that's happened in the valley that has escalated and resulting in something bad happening to them"
 
  • #494
Correcting you trujac. He said it was unlikely to be planned or premeditated.

"It was unlikely an attack on the couple was "planned" or "premeditated", Inspector Stamper said[/COLOR
The strongest theory is that it is something that's happened in the valley that has escalated and resulting in something bad happening to them"


oops..you're correct--Panda...I guess my gut thought on this case from the beginning is that it was a premeditated and a planned murder---and, I inadvertently wrote and attributed that statement in my summary to Detective Stamper--because everything else Dectective Stamper said, I agree with except that aspect...Thank you very much for pointing that mistake out.
 
  • #495
Very interesting video trujac, looking out the windows at the expanse of bush in the Woonangatta Valley area was eye opening to the multiple possibilities :eek:
yes, absolutely, and at times the road looked very narrow with a steep drop on both sides--can you imagine having to reverse a long distance on the narrow sections trying to find a wide enough turn out area so you and another vehicle coming from the opposite could pass each other?
 
  • #496
Based on Senior investigator at Victoria police Andrew Stamper's comments June 15th to Current Affairs...they thoroughly searched the area for a month looking for RH and CC...his opinion--they were removed from the valley or they've been concealed somewhere. "We would have found them by now if they were still up there." He added, the evidence was destroyed when their campsite in was burned down...it was a premeditated and planned murder...
I think RH and CC are concealed somewhere in the valley...leaving the area with them would entail a lot more effort and more chances of getting caught. Having watched several videos of the area, disposing of bodies so they wouldn't be found doesn't seem difficult to me. The level of sophistication in covering up the abduction and murder of RH and CC suggests to me that someone put a lot of thought into killing the pair and/or this crime was done by a killer who was well versed in his dispatching methodology having practice committing other murders in the area. I don't think RH and CC will be found any time soon, and their disappearance will be only added to the list of other people who have mysteriously vanished in the valley. It seems like a sad ending to their love affair...but at least they were able to spend their last moments together in a place they cherished sharing with each other--the silvering lining to an otherwise disturbing conundrum.

*I am sure everyone has seen the article I am referring...but I just post it to support my comments here.

Missing Victorians likely 'carted out' of campsite by third party before mystery disappearance

A couple of us speculated about crime very early on. And believed that the drone was integral to their disappearance. I still feel the same way. Either on a previous solo trip or with Carol, they set out to gather more info. Just how many trees, bushes, animal dens can you focus on in the same area. Maybe a creek, or brook. But after awhile? It would be monotonous. I’d be heading into a different area.
This trip was rumored to have been planned over many miles with different stops along the way. Maybe he was following some trail, or lead? Some route or passage that he suspected heading somewhere. As a retired logger from that area, he probably was as good a scout as Buttons appears to be. I presume as a logger he was employed to locate the best grove of trees, at the easiest accessible locations. And whatever other criteria lumber companies required, to harvest. As such, he would have an innate sense about him. Like Buttons, or indigenous people from the area. Not even settlers or native born of settlers of the bordering towns and small villages but rather like Mowgli. You could turn them around and around, but they know which way is north. Or from where they just walked.
He was bird dogging something. If there were precious metals up there, I’d suspect a Lost Dutchman Mine. I’m thinking vegetation or animals that were off the grid. Something that could be relocated from time to time. But as one of the SARS cattlemen said, you go off into the bush, get lost and they’ll never find you. I imagine an area that still is virgin woods, swamps, or scrub undergrowth. Even old dirt roads or trails, used in the past become overgrown. Not long ago, a young mother got turned around in the forests of Idaho. Found weeks later, she had died within a very short distance of a main interstate. Hiker in Hawaii. Hiker in this valley.
How very sad. Curiosity killed the cat.
Our best hope is that he uploaded previous drone footage from his last solo trip. Either at home or in the cloud. Or at Carol’s. But LE would still have to find it. And pick up where he left off last time.
Any other thoughts?
Are they buried out there? Is the ground workable?
Are there steep cliffs from which one could fall?
The stream was a trickle this time of year. Are there camps out there affiliated with any political groups?
Preppers?
Nothing else comes to mind.
 
  • #497
Anyone here feeling adventurous? lol...I am becoming obsessed with Wonnangatta Valley...in a good way.
Here is a great 7 minute video clip showing what it is like to drive from the Wonnangatta Valley station to the little town of Dargo. You literally are sitting in the 4 wheel drive vehicle, and this is what RH and CC apparently loved to do...amazing. Driving and riding these roads isn't for the faint of heart. There are several youtube videos on Sambar hunting in the Wonnangatta Valley that were to heavy for me to watch...but the area is rugged untamed beauty, imo.
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Oh that accent....I’d move there just to hear every one say “good day” every day. Sounds like Aussies are a welcoming bunch of folks.
 
  • #498
A couple of us speculated about crime very early on. And believed that the drone was integral to their disappearance. I still feel the same way. Either on a previous solo trip or with Carol, they set out to gather more info. Just how many trees, bushes, animal dens can you focus on in the same area. Maybe a creek, or brook. But after awhile? It would be monotonous. I’d be heading into a different area.
This trip was rumored to have been planned over many miles with different stops along the way. Maybe he was following some trail, or lead? Some route or passage that he suspected heading somewhere. As a retired logger from that area, he probably was as good a scout as Buttons appears to be. I presume as a logger he was employed to locate the best grove of trees, at the easiest accessible locations. And whatever other criteria lumber companies required, to harvest. As such, he would have an innate sense about him. Like Buttons, or indigenous people from the area. Not even settlers or native born of settlers of the bordering towns and small villages but rather like Mowgli. You could turn them around and around, but they know which way is north. Or from where they just walked.
He was bird dogging something. If there were precious metals up there, I’d suspect a Lost Dutchman Mine. I’m thinking vegetation or animals that were off the grid. Something that could be relocated from time to time. But as one of the SARS cattlemen said, you go off into the bush, get lost and they’ll never find you. I imagine an area that still is virgin woods, swamps, or scrub undergrowth. Even old dirt roads or trails, used in the past become overgrown. Not long ago, a young mother got turned around in the forests of Idaho. Found weeks later, she had died within a very short distance of a main interstate. Hiker in Hawaii. Hiker in this valley.
How very sad. Curiosity killed the cat.
Our best hope is that he uploaded previous drone footage from his last solo trip. Either at home or in the cloud. Or at Carol’s. But LE would still have to find it. And pick up where he left off last time.
Any other thoughts?
Are they buried out there? Is the ground workable?
Are there steep cliffs from which one could fall?
The stream was a trickle this time of year. Are there camps out there affiliated with any political groups?
Preppers?
Nothing else comes to mind.
Yes, you present some interesting theories and questions Midwestmom, and I agree, the fact that the drone is missing sends a big red flag up--Why is it missing? And, what does it have to do with RH and CC missing? While spending more time with this case, I am surprised to see how many people hunt in the Wonnangatta Valley--a lot of folks poking around in the valley armed and looking for game, and also the four wheel vehicle clubs that go into the valley to clear the roads and cut back the bushes--I belonged to a Mountain hiking group in Honolulu and we did that too. You would think based on the active interest from various sporting groups of people, someone would have seen something--even if only able to tell LE who they saw driving by on a remote section of the dirt roads from the time RH and CC drove to the Wonnangatta Station and then to their campsite, to when LE was brought in to search for them. LE doesn't appear to have found any blood drops around RH and CC's camp site...I would think some type of dna evidence would have been found around their camp if they had been wounded prior to being taken away somewhere. And, what was in the tent that needed to be obliterated by fire?...were they shot in the head while sleeping in the tent, then removed from the tent? There must have been some extreme/important reason to torch their campsite--if RH and CC's had just been removed from the campsite or abducted close by--and their campsite left untouched, it would have been considerably longer before anyone would have known there was a problem, jmo. A very unlikely possibility would be that RH torched the campsite himself to alert someone they were in trouble--I think that's farfetched though. The other possibility would be a camper stopped by and set up their camp in proximity to RH CC's tent...met them and then decided to abduct and kill them--taking their drone in the process. A case I followed closely last year happened like that--a New Hampshire couple traveling cross the States called their family and friends daily on a public medium--telling everyone where they were and where they were going to set up their campsite for a few days; after which, they took pictures of themselves and their campsite--and uploaded them to share...shortly after their final stop, another couple showed up--and proceeded to kill them and their pets, and stole their RV and truck. Nowadays, I think it is dangerous to share any on the road traveling information where anyone can listen in or view/read the uploaded pictures and geographical location.
Man arrested in case of New Hampshire couple found dead on Texas beach
 
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  • #499
Oh that accent....I’d move there just to hear every one say “good day” every day. Sounds like Aussies are a welcoming bunch of folks.
I am not used to the Australian accent--and couldn't make heads or tails what the driver was saying as he video taped his excursion--but he sure was full of hospitality, lol.
 
  • #500
Oh that accent....I’d move there just to hear every one say “good day” every day. Sounds like Aussies are a welcoming bunch of folks.

the classic aussie accent is kinda fading out over here now, while its still around and certain demographics represent it more than others ( bogans lol ) many of us city folk talk with the refined aussie accent, its not quite as strong and we don't use all the Australianisms that you may expect, you may or may not be able to tell but we can for sure

its kinda like how in england you have the different accents and similar to the USA.. New Yorker, Boston ( wicked pissah) Southern.. West Coast .. Mid Western etc
 
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