Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[Midwestmom2019]

I've got a germ of an out-there theory that they never made it to Wonnangatta; that violence occurred elsewhere and the perpetrator moved their belongings so as not to point to the real scene of the crime. Then he burnt the tent so it could not be established from its layout that Russell and Carol were never there. If so, he probably made the radio call himself.

His wife recognized his voice. But the rest? Another possibility.

 

[JLZ]

His wife recognized his voice. But the rest? Another possibility.

Oh, his wife did? That's somewhat different; I thought it was only a friend who heard it, plus the sound quality was bad, and the call was brief.

I suppose it's possible they had been in Wonnangatta since the previous day, and Russell said they were just setting up camp as an excuse to cut short the connection.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Oh, his wife did? That's somewhat different; I thought it was only a friend who heard it, plus the sound quality was bad, and the call was brief.

I suppose it's possible they had been in Wonnangatta since the previous day, and Russell said they were just setting up camp as an excuse to cut short the connection.

All I want to know is where are his back ups stored? Computer? Cloud? Carol’s?
Hmmmm. All C’s. Is that a clue? debunking an investigation will be easy if we find photos of the couple on the backups as opposed to aerial views of some oddities. Omg. Can you imagine if he took THOSE kinds of photos of the two of them. Good for them!, we won’t tell anyone. I just want the aerial views of hidden crops or rustled cattle. Something is on those cell phones or stored somewhere. Uh. “Dah Drone, Boss. Dah Drone.”
Getting late. I’m thinking too far out of the box. Bid everyone a pleasant rest of the day. Or night.

 

[Panda]

When I said you were thinking out of the box, I was referring to other posters on this forum who seem to entertain no other explanation.

Yes, I read your post about "no comms", but I have now read two unrelated sources that say there is signal there.

"Mobile phone coverage is generally available on the higher sections of the track/s, but alternative communication such as a satellite phone is a good option."
Wonnangatta Camping | Wonnangatta Guide | Trayon Campers

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I'm not doubting your word that you cannot get any "comms". I'm thinking if you are with telstra and your phone is suitable for remote areas (blue tick), then you might be OK.

Your logic makes sense. My husband and I used to do a lot of camping in a specific area where there was no mobile reception. We were with another telco, not Telstra. Some friends we went away with were with Telstra and managed to get signal on high areas, whereas we did not. After this, we purchased a Blue Tick phone and went with Telstra because the reception is better. We subsequently noticed that when driving in the bush, we would suddenly get a bar or two and as you continued to drive, the signal would be lost again. Recently I was in a forest near my home and in the middle of nowhere, managed to get reception. So it is possible.

 

[Paul_Pry]

While spending more time with this case, I am surprised to see how many people hunt in the Wonnangatta Valley--a lot of folks poking around in the valley armed and looking for game

Your comment here has got me thinking about Russell and his opinion on hunting and weapons. Was he possibly quite against hunting in the valley? A stray bullet from a hunter would have been a bit of a risk to him throughout all the years he spent working in the valley logging.

Maybe he was on the case of some ongoing illegal hunting activity? That could explain his solo trip to the valley for one night with the drone a week prior to his trip with CC.

Or perhaps there were some hunters in the valley the weekend of his trip with CC larking about, possibly drinking etc. with unregistered firearms thinking they could get away with a bit of shooting since most people wouldnt even have mobile reception to call LE on them. If they have crossed paths with RH and CC and maybe been told off by either of them and also noticing RHs vehicle was equipped with radio transmission to be able to report them making it possible for LE to close in on them before they could get out of the valley, they could have kidnapped RH and CC.

As others have mentioned here our gun laws are very strict in Australia and jail time is quite possible if someone without a gun license has any gun in their posession whatsoever and even someone with a gun license has to make sure every gun in their posession is registered and stored in the proper manner including any ammunition too

 

[Ramjet]

None or very intermittant coverage around the Howitt plains. . . Until StarGate .. thanks Elon. The low sheen will help disguise your space junk from cluttering up the night sky
Yes of course you should always carry your phone for those important text messages when you are on top of a peak.
You need to have your maps saved for navigation since no data or phone.
Phone is good for stored maps and POI snaps. ... music movies photos. .
As said. . You are on your own in this area.

 

[Ramjet]

A valley probably isn't a higher section of the track/s, especially when they are talking about a route from Licola to Wonnangatta to Dargo--quite a distance.

Here's some discussion I found; the question was about mobile coverage on the Australian Alps Walking Track with particular reference to Mt Speculation. 2014, however; might be better now.

--Hi Smokey - I can confirm that you can usually get phone reception on the Crosscut saw, Mt Spec, and the Viking.

--On top of most of the big Hills from baw baw to bogong you get reception to varying degrees. Usually if you can see a ski resort or the Plains off the divide you'll get reception.

--From Mt McDonald round to Spec is all within line of sight to Mt Buller, and you can get a signal even on 2G (which is limited to about 16 km from the base station). With 3G, the distances are much further, so long as you have line-of-sight, so many high peaks will still have coverage even if a considerable distance away from the nearest base station. Check your network provider's website for coverage maps, although pretty much all the networks have base stations at the major ski resorts. Baw Baw, Buller, Hotham, Falls, Thredbo, Mt Selwyn all provide coverage for a decent chunk of the trail. The biggest dark zone is probably Mt Wills round to Thredbo, although it's worth pulling out your phone and giving it a shot on Johnnies Top and Mt Misery.

Definitely worth taking a phone (although should be on airplane mode or turned off most of the time), as it can really chew the battery hunting for a (non-existent) signal when down in a valley. Having a phone will allow you to check weather forecasts (take a look at the Bureau of Meterology Australian Alps weather), and in an emergency, a phone (provided you have signal) can provide more information than an EPIRB.
​

Australian Alps Walking Track

So the lesson here is to carry an EPIRB.
Even HF is unreliable.

 

[Panda]

Your comment here has got me thinking about Russell and his opinion on hunting and weapons. Was he possibly quite against hunting in the valley? A stray bullet from a hunter would have been a bit of a risk to him throughout all the years he spent working in the valley logging.

Maybe he was on the case of some ongoing illegal hunting activity? That could explain his solo trip to the valley for one night with the drone a week prior to his trip with CC.

Or perhaps there were some hunters in the valley the weekend of his trip with CC larking about, possibly drinking etc. with unregistered firearms thinking they could get away with a bit of shooting since most people wouldnt even have mobile reception to call LE on them. If they have crossed paths with RH and CC and maybe been told off by either of them and also noticing RHs vehicle was equipped with radio transmission to be able to report them making it possible for LE to close in on them before they could get out of the valley, they could have kidnapped RH and CC.

As others have mentioned here our gun laws are very strict in Australia and jail time is quite possible if someone without a gun license has any gun in their posession whatsoever and even someone with a gun license has to make sure every gun in their posession is registered and stored in the proper manner including any ammunition too

I think that scenario is quite valid. I don't know what the Victorian laws are for hunting in forests, or whether that area is a designated hunting area or not. Regardless, if someone was illegally shooting/hunting and Russell picked them up with his drone, that may have been sufficient to cause a conflict which could easily escalate.

 

[Ramjet]

Your comment here has got me thinking about Russell and his opinion on hunting and weapons. Was he possibly quite against hunting in the valley? A stray bullet from a hunter would have been a bit of a risk to him throughout all the years he spent working in the valley logging.

Maybe he was on the case of some ongoing illegal hunting activity? That could explain his solo trip to the valley for one night with the drone a week prior to his trip with CC.

Or perhaps there were some hunters in the valley the weekend of his trip with CC larking about, possibly drinking etc. with unregistered firearms thinking they could get away with a bit of shooting since most people wouldnt even have mobile reception to call LE on them. If they have crossed paths with RH and CC and maybe been told off by either of them and also noticing RHs vehicle was equipped with radio transmission to be able to report them making it possible for LE to close in on them before they could get out of the valley, they could have kidnapped RH and CC.

As others have mentioned here our gun laws are very strict in Australia and jail time is quite possible if someone without a gun license has any gun in their posession whatsoever and even someone with a gun license has to make sure every gun in their posession is registered and stored in the proper manner including any ammunition too

I learned a lot from his FB posts going back 10 yrs. He is an enthusiastic outdoors person.
His friends are hunters.

 

[Ramjet]

I think that scenario is quite valid. I don't know what the Victorian laws are for hunting in forests, or whether that area is a designated hunting area or not. Regardless, if someone was illegally shooting/hunting and Russell picked them up with his drone, that may have been sufficient to cause a conflict which could easily escalate.

No problems with hunting in the valley.
The community is very friendly.
He likes hunting

 

[Kemug]

Re Russell's heart problems - we don't know how bad they are do we - but perhaps it has always been somewhat likely that he might have a heart attack while camping. Plus if he was in a struggle (or even an argument) with a malefactor, as has been suggested, maybe it would be too much for his heart. So someone could have caused his death without meaning to, and covered it up. But where would that leave Carol?

 

[Tinker Taylor]

Re Russell's heart problems - we don't know how bad they are do we - but perhaps it has always been somewhat likely that he might have a heart attack while camping. Plus if he was in a struggle (or even an argument) with a malefactor, as has been suggested, maybe it would be too much for his heart. So someone could have caused his death without meaning to, and covered it up. But where would that leave Carol?

Yes, I have considered that too. I have experienced someone close to me having a Sudden Cardiac Arrest and it doesn't necessarily need an immediate stress situation. I thought he could have collapsed and caused both of them to fall from a steep track. However, I'm still struggling to tie that into the fire in the tent.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I learned a lot from his FB posts going back 10 yrs. He is an enthusiastic outdoors person.
His friends are hunters.

We know nothing of the sort. The fb page you posted ages ago was not his and was deleted from this thread. No use referring back to something that isn't true. Why are you misleading the posters in this thread?

 

[Tinker Taylor]

Your logic makes sense. My husband and I used to do a lot of camping in a specific area where there was no mobile reception. We were with another telco, not Telstra. Some friends we went away with were with Telstra and managed to get signal on high areas, whereas we did not. After this, we purchased a Blue Tick phone and went with Telstra because the reception is better. We subsequently noticed that when driving in the bush, we would suddenly get a bar or two and as you continued to drive, the signal would be lost again. Recently I was in a forest near my home and in the middle of nowhere, managed to get reception. So it is possible.

Yes, even my husband and I have two different models of the same phone and on the same network, but mine (the older one) gets better signal on our rural property than his, both blue tick.

 

[Kemug]

Yes, I have considered that too. I have experienced someone close to me having a Sudden Cardiac Arrest and it doesn't necessarily need an immediate stress situation. I thought he could have collapsed and caused both of them to fall from a steep track. However, I'm still struggling to tie that into the fire in the tent.

Well, some have suggested that the tent fire could in some way have been to confuse us - and if so it's worked!

 

[Tinker Taylor]

Well, some have suggested that the tent fire could in some way have been to confuse us - and if so it's worked!

Hmmmm, we are confused, but I can't see that as something that was planned by anyone.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

None or very intermittant coverage around the Howitt plains. . . Until StarGate .. thanks Elon. The low sheen will help disguise your space junk from cluttering up the night sky
Yes of course you should always carry your phone for those important text messages when you are on top of a peak.
You need to have your maps saved for navigation since no data or phone.
Phone is good for stored maps and POI snaps. ... music movies photos. .
As said. . You are on your own in this area.

I like paper. You can’t accidentally delete it.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

No problems with hunting in the valley.
The community is very friendly.
He likes hunting

Almost all scenarios proposed by others here on WS which lean towards some nefarious conclusion, you seem to debunk. Give others the courtesy to discuss possibilities of the couple’s untimely demise.

 

[trujac]

Yes, even my husband and I have two different models of the same phone and on the same network, but mine (the older one) gets better signal on our rural property than his, both blue tick.

Tinker...I live in a rural area and my older phones work better than my new phones--Verizon said the older cell phones are capable of picking up signals at a longer distance, while the new phones can only pick up shorter distance signals.

 

[trujac]

I think that scenario is quite valid. I don't know what the Victorian laws are for hunting in forests, or whether that area is a designated hunting area or not. Regardless, if someone was illegally shooting/hunting and Russell picked them up with his drone, that may have been sufficient to cause a conflict which could easily escalate.

Panda, I looked up the hunting laws in Victoria--hunting in Australia provides good income for States so it appears to be an activity that has wide support. Here's a good article that covers the topic.
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_in_Australia