Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[Midwestmom2019]

Latest HS article in full -

Police have cut the time frame in which Russell Hill and Carol Clay vanished from their High Country campsite to about 18 hours

Investigators believe something happened to the friends overnight or the morning after they last made contact from the Dry River Creek Track in the Wonnangatta Valley.

It has been 73 days since they left on the ill-fated camping trip which has gripped Victorians and is the subject of a major missing persons squad inquiry.

Investigators know Mr Hill talked via his radio with a friend at about 6.30pm on March 20, a day after setting off to East Gippsland.

He spoke only briefly because darkness was descending and he wanted to set up the camp site.

The next day, other High Country visitors came across their camp at about 2pm.

They saw fire had destroyed a tent and camp furniture and had also scorched the side of Mr Hill’s Toyota LandCruiser.

Those passers-by believe it had been out long enough to have gone cold.

It was not smoking at that point.

The fire remains one of the most intriguing elements of the case because, despite an arson chemist’s investigation, its exact cause is not known.

Detective Insp. Andrew Stamper, the head of the missing persons squad, said it was as though Mr Hill, 74, and Ms Clay, 73, disappeared into thin air.

He said search and rescue squad officers, who have run major operations in the surrounding area, were convinced they would have found some trace of the friends if they were still there.

Insp. Stamper said talk of wild dogs removing remains of people who died in the High Country possibly had foundation, but the canines would be expected to leave behind traces like footwear or clothing.

Insp. Stamper said it was possible something had gone wrong while the pair were out exploring the bush.

But both getting into the kind of trouble which led to death was less likely, he said.

Investigators are now trying to track every person who was in the area where Mr Hill, of Drouin, and Ms Clay, who is from Pakenham, travelled.

Insp. Stamper said there were a lot of people in the High Country that weekend as COVID-19 restrictions loomed.

Investigators have been working via public appeals and intensive investigation work to find everyone who was in a wide expanse of the High Country to see if they noticed anything that could help the inquiry.

Mr Hill had been in the King Billy and Bluff Track area from March 13 to 16 on a separate solo visit with his new drone.

He also took the drone on the trip with Ms Clay the next week.

It has not been recovered and remains another puzzling elements of the inquiry.

Anyone with any other information on the disappearance or who has any CCTV or dashcam footage can call Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or visit the website.

DUH?????
18 hours is a game changer.
So he saw something a week earlier. Came back with Carol and zap. They’re both missing.
DUH?????
The public might have been able to provide meaningful clues had anyone known it was 18 hours and he was there a week earlier. Too bad he had not shared his mystery with someone other than Carol. It sounds like a couple of hours after his last ham radio transmission, OR his transmission was cut short...something nefarious took place. Then the place went up in flames to cover up a crime. Pros. Or lucky. Because no conclusion from the arson team. Or, conclusion is being withheld. More likely scenario, it’s being withheld, trying to flush out the predators. Obviously, they’re not taking the bait. So we’re back to the beginning: he saw something a week earlier, via drone. Instead of calling LE, he takes it upon himself to solve the mystery. Talks Carol into coming for a ride, and it turns out sad. Not any dogs. Not any snakes. Humans. We’re the only species that kills for fun.
Locals might be able to tell us what motives for crimes are realistic.
Grow drugs for profit? FWIW, I don’t think ButtonMan was in on the disappearances. If anything, he’d be a solid source of info. I believe LE has already paid him a visit. But who knows. That’s why we’re here sleuthing this mystery.
ETA: I suppose we could ask the true locals. Sons of the fathers who knew all about the two murders committed a hundred plus years ago. No journalist will get that info. Is there lost gold in the mountains? Rumors of treasures buried by the Bryce Family? The American West is full of stories about lost mines, buried treasures. People get crazy searching for the riches.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Re-reading the earlier news stories, does this new 18 hour window give anyone a different feeling about Mrs. Hill denying she knew her husband traveled with Carol Clay AND she said “I think that they are both dead”?
I think I would have said, “well! I’ll fix that old coot when he gets home!” Or at least something close to that response.
Does anyone know how many days/ hours after the reported disappearances, the newspaper interviewed Mrs. Hill? Or did this quote come from LE? That I couldn’t find.

 

[bancam]

Re-reading the earlier news stories, does this new 18 hour window give anyone a different feeling about Mrs. Hill denying she knew her husband traveled with Carol Clay AND she said “I think that they are both dead”?
I think I would have said, “well! I’ll fix that old coot when he gets home!” Or at least something close to that response.
Does anyone know how many days/ hours after the reported disappearances, the newspaper interviewed Mrs. Hill? Or did this quote come from LE? That I couldn’t find.

The first I saw this interview with Mrs Hill reported was in the (paywalled) Herald Sun article of Apr 9, which was later picked up by other MSM. The HS reporters presumably spoke to her that day or the day beforehand. So that’s nearly 3 weeks after their disappearance.

I don’t know when Police got info from the witness to the burnt campsite, or confirmation of RH’s last radio contact, but it was presumably much earlier than this and in the first few days/the first week of the investigation. I agree that the 18hr window is critical info that could’ve been clearly articulated and shared much earlier.

 

[Paul_Pry]

Quotes from Robyn Hill in Herald Sun article from Monday April 13, 2020 -


Speaking to the Herald Sun, Mr Hill’s wife Robyn said she was “glad” the search was resuming for the pair.

“I just want them found,” Mrs Hill said.

“I’m happy the search is resuming.”

Last week, Mrs Hill revealed she thought he was taking the camping trip alone.

“I just wish they would find them both alive,” Mrs Hill said at the time.

“I thought he was going alone, I can’t believe it.

“I’ve got a feeling they may have died.”

She said Russell and Carol had been friendly for decades.

Mrs Hill said her husband “knew the area well” as he used to work up there for his work in logging.

She said she had an inkling something had gone wrong when he stopped communicating on his radio system.

“I knew something was wrong because he wasn’t calling in on the radio,” Mrs Hill said.

“It is not a good place to be when the weather gets bad.”

She issued a message to her husband of 50 years.

“You silly bugger,” she said.

 

[Panda]

I find VicPol are very pragmatic in adhering to their strict policies in relation to sharing information.
Media releases need to be completely unambiguous and accurate.
Hoping that they are using the latest drone tech to scour the hill sides. ..( A lot easier than walking )
With high-def imagery from low altitude it should be possible to scan for human remains.
A very large area could be thus explored from the comfort of a desktop.
Sadly I don't think this happening.
In the case of Niels Becker they really only searched the area adjacent to walking tracks whereas he probably took a shortcut through dense scrub.
There is now the technology to search from above.
Of course the weather must be perfect for aerial searching.

Are drones able to pick up under the scrub though? I wouldn't have thought you would be locate much in dense bush?

 

[spiritseeker31]

I'd talk about her past tense too if I'd found out a long time friend was camping with my husband.

*Edit - I thought I quoted someone on page 3 or 4 about Mrs. Hill speaking about Carol in past tense.

 

[Ramjet]

Technology is currently available to scan the hill-sides remotely.
The DJI Mavic Air lets you take 8K movie and 48Mpx images.
The range of these devices is 10Km (line of sight) with battery endurance of 30 min.
This is a consumer drone and only requires one skilled operator.
A skilled drone pilot could easily capture the entire area by strategically taking high definition photos from a safe height.
Using algorithms (programs like photoshop) you can search imagery for artifacts.
You could even take photos at intervals to later detect for any movement.
Given that any remains are now scattered to the four winds .. I'm thinking an area of 50 M2 is not unlikely unless they wore camourflage searching images for bright colours would be easy.
Otherwise manually scrutinizing the imagery would show up the location to search more closely.
The hill-sides are very sparse whereas the gullies are more dense and hard to search.
You would need bright sunny conditions to do this with no wind.

 

[Satchie]

The theory that there was misadventure involving the drone makes sense.

But as others have noted, the campsite fire is very troubling. If the fire was cold, not even smoking, by 2, how much earlier would it have burned? 11 am?

Just how early would the couple have set out to fly the drone? Then if a presumed drama occurred of losing it and trying to retrieve it in some way that went wrong, how quickly could all that happen without they, or at least one of them, seeing the fire and going back? Were they really that far away, or out of site of the camp, suffering the fatal consequences from one technology-caused disaster, while another one was happening to them at the same time? A very bad day indeed.

 

[Ramjet]

The theory that there was misadventure involving the drone makes sense.

But as others have noted, the campsite fire is very troubling. If the fire was cold, not even smoking, by 2, how much earlier would it have burned? 11 am?

Just how early would the couple have set out to fly the drone? Then if a presumed drama occurred of losing it and trying to retrieve it in some way that went wrong, how quickly could all that happen without they, or at least one of them, seeing the fire and going back? Were they really that far away, or out of site of the camp, suffering the fatal consequences from one technology-caused disaster, while another one was happening to them at the same time? A very bad day indeed.

Yes... a very sad story
The incident must have happened between the radio transmission ~ 6.30PM frid and the following day at 2.00PM. or 2 hrs earlier since the ashes were cold.
As I outlined earlier it's most likely (IMHO) that they embarked on the search for the missing drone early Sat morning.
He may have lost it the previous evening... but more likely early Sat.
If he was skilled with the unit he would have saved the GPS location of the downed drone.
Otherwise he may have recorded video footage up till losing control .. or .. he may have been aware from watching the captured video of the forced return and landing in real-time.
This assumes that his smartphone was functioning correctly since it is the only means of display. (you can use the controller without any captured video if the craft is visible)
If the drone went behind the mountain range to the north he could lose contact and it may have consequently executed an automatic RTH.
It does this by GPS.
But... it's most likely that the RTH height was set too low.
This means the craft will not go high enough to clear the ridge top.
The default settings are preset low in order to conserve battery and for aviation safety.
The craft will therefore hunt around for RTH path until the battery is depleted.
Low battery causes the craft to gradually descend until it will land safely.
So it's usually possible to know where to look for your downed drone.
Looking at the topography my guess is he flew it over the range to the north into the Riley Ck valley area.
That looks like an area that was heavily logged in past decades and might be familiar to him.

 

[neesaki]

Thanks for this^ Looks like a bit of a rehash to get the story back into the news and hopefully jog some more memories. It does irk me a little that the 18 hour window is being presented as somewhat new information - Police have known this for a couple of months already yet they’re only now narrowing it down to a clearly defined window. Articulating that would’ve been helpful earlier, especially for potential new witnesses. Police knew quite early on when the last radio contact was made and when the burnt campsite was seen. They knew those times long ago.

I’m also surprised it took them up until about a week ago to reveal Russell had been in the area one week prior. It is a big haul there and back, it’s not like a quick run to the corner store. It opens up the possibility that he was doing some sort of advance prep for the later trip with Carol (and if so, what), or that he had been noseying around with his drone and had spotted something unusual that he brought Carol back a week later to further investigate with him.

The police inspector notes the likelihood of some evidence being left behind had wild dogs taken a person (let alone two people), and how it’s a pretty slim possibility that two people would both get into difficulty resulting in both of their deaths (and not leaving a trace in the process). I agree with him. Added to that is a burnt out campsite which their best experts cannot conclude was accidental or deliberate.

This is looking more and more suss to me.

So they doubt it’s likely they both died accidentally. What was he using that drone for, to find or see... what? I thought it was quite expensive for just a toy. Now I think even more so. I agree, looking more and more suspicious.

 

[Satchie]

So they doubt it’s likely they both died accidentally. What was he using that drone for, to find or see... what? I thought it was quite expensive for just a toy. Now I think even more so. I agree, looking more and more suspicious.

I have no problems imagining a man spending $2000 on a drone 'toy'. I do have trouble imagining his apparently glamorous girlfriend tramping around in the bush while he played with it.

People who fly drones use it to get cool aerial footage of places they're interested in, including, cool aerial footage of themselves in cool places. I can imagine him showing her how the drone works by getting footage of them at the campsite. I can imagine that getting footage of waterfalls would be motivating for him, but not for her -- most women that age would be happy to just watch the footage after he captured it. Or get a ride to the falls to see them. But hiking part way to the falls, in order to stand idly around, peering up into the sky while he fiddled with flying it?, I have a hard time picturing that. Still, maybe she was a super loyal and accommodating girlfriend.

 

[neesaki]

I have no problems imagining a man spending $2000 on a drone 'toy'. I do have trouble imagining his apparently glamorous girlfriend tramping around in the bush while he played with it.

People who fly drones use it to get cool aerial footage of places they're interested in, including, cool aerial footage of themselves in cool places. I can imagine him showing her how the drone works by getting footage of them at the campsite. I can imagine that getting footage of waterfalls would be motivating for him, but not for her -- most women that age would be happy to just watch the footage after he captured it. Or get a ride to the falls to see them. But hiking part way to the falls, in order to stand idly around, peering up into the sky while he fiddled with flying it?, I have a hard time picturing that. Still, maybe she was a super loyal and accommodating girlfriend.

I suppose. Something still seem suspicious, IMO. That said, I am the eternal skeptic.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I suppose. Something still seem suspicious, IMO. That said, I am the eternal skeptic.

His ham radio transmission was short bc night was falling. He needed to set up camp. So I bet he started out early am to play with his toy....they wander off following the drone. Get lost. Succumbed to the elements. Another group found an empty camp site and helped themselves. Set fire. Left it to burn down to nothing. Maybe it rained that am? So it was cold by 2:00 pm.
Or the couple was accosted first thing in the am. They never had a chance to fly the drone.
Whatever happened, it was quick.
ETA: Not me. I’ll stay home, thank you very much.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I have no problems imagining a man spending $2000 on a drone 'toy'. I do have trouble imagining his apparently glamorous girlfriend tramping around in the bush while he played with it.

People who fly drones use it to get cool aerial footage of places they're interested in, including, cool aerial footage of themselves in cool places. I can imagine him showing her how the drone works by getting footage of them at the campsite. I can imagine that getting footage of waterfalls would be motivating for him, but not for her -- most women that age would be happy to just watch the footage after he captured it. Or get a ride to the falls to see them. But hiking part way to the falls, in order to stand idly around, peering up into the sky while he fiddled with flying it?, I have a hard time picturing that. Still, maybe she was a super loyal and accommodating girlfriend.

I wouldn’t stay behind by myself while he went off playing with the drone. It wasn’t like they set up camp in a populated park full of other campers. She went with him for safety reasons.

 

[Ramjet]

I wouldn’t stay behind by myself while he went off playing with the drone. It wasn’t like they set up camp in a populated park full of other campers. She went with him for safety reasons.

There are no safety issues... except for the weather.
This couple are country folk and well experienced in the out of doors.
There is no chance of a person deliberately burning down the tent.
They are elderly, mature, and obviously adventurous enough to go on this high country trip.
However because of their age they might have pushed their limits here.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

There are no safety issues... except for the weather.
This couple are country folk and well experienced in the out of doors.
There is no chance of a person deliberately burning down the tent.
They are elderly, mature, and obviously adventurous enough to go on this high country trip.
However because of their age they might have pushed their limits here.

I’d like to think that you’re right.
Any thoughts why police did not disclose the very short time period until recently?

 

[Ramjet]

I’d like to think that you’re right.
Any thoughts why police did not disclose the very short time period until recently?

The timing of events was made clear from the earliest media conferance.
There is no mystery.

 

[Satchie]

The timing of events was made clear from the earliest media conferance.
There is no mystery.

I agree, it was always there, the media just didn't pick up on it until, possibly, LE clarified the earlier statement. Police appear to want to focus attention for anyone who may have noticed the fire. If they can pinpoint the time of the fire, they'll have better info for reconstructing what happened.

 

[The Odd Sock]

It doesn't make sense.
The Vehicle left behind and the equipment are not cheap.
Neither were the two missing people.
Native animals can scurry through camp sites and upset all sorts of things which may explain the fire but may be not.
If they had run off to chase a drone there would still be traces.
And I seriously doubt that they would scurry off to find it.
Surely a drone that cost that amount of money would have a GPS tracker or something similar?
It has nothing to do with a drone....
Someone has been up to mischief...
Roger that...

 

[Midwestmom2019]

None of the articles I read mentioned whether the ham radio equipment was left at the campsite and among the burned out remains. I understand criminals not taking his vehicle. Unique and easily spotted. But the drone is missing. It’s not cheap. And I would think radio transmission equipment is not cheap, either. But if the radio equipment was among the burned out remains, it would appear they walked away to use the drone and got lost. Or were using the drone and stumbled on criminal activity.