Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[Catmommy]

I don't really know how to put this, but maybe it wasn't only the perps (if indeed there were any) that were tending their crops?

Until proved otherwise, that makes as viable a theory as any other.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

I didn't think MSM said anything about keys. All they said was the vehicle was locked? I must have missed something.

From the link you posted above.

"A spare set of keys was found hidden on the car, but it is believed Mr Hill took the main set with him." (first I've heard of this).

 

[Panda]

From the link you posted above.

"A spare set of keys was found hidden on the car, but it is believed Mr Hill took the main set with him." (first I've heard of this).

That's new information. It was only published today. There's nothing conflicting. All we knew prior to today was that the vehicle was locked.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

That's new information. It was only published today. There's nothing conflicting. All we knew prior to today was that the vehicle was locked.

Ok, I didn't realise that this was newly released information, although I noted the date on the article was today. Sunday seems like a strange day to release new information on an ongoing case. Yes, we already knew the vehicle was locked.

So now we know that a spare set of keys was found on the vehicle. This puts a different spin on things.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Quite often newspapers choose Sunday for their exclusive stories along with previously unpublished information.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

The vehicle was found locked. If the fire had started when they were asleep, likely the keys were lost in the fire. If they were burned then maybe the stream was a place they could head for, if not for relief from the burns, then as a way to navigate to the nearest settlement/house.

As a former logger, his keys were always in the ignition. Does anyone know if the vehicle was therefore left unlocked at all times? It seems to defeat the purpose of ease jumping into and out of the truck for multiple stops throughout the day if keys are in his pocket locking the vehicle but in the ignition once unlocked. Many contractors do the same.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I don't really know how to put this, but maybe it wasn't only the perps (if indeed there were any) that were tending their crops?

Good for them, if in fact they had become weekend farmers. At that age, they should be able to do pretty much anything. And with all the medicinal uses for weed, maybe so. They might have had small plantings all around the valley, necessitating various camping sites.
I just don’t think so.
Back to phone chargers, I have chargers in my car, office and by my bed. Going camping, I’d think a car charger would be enough. No sense in traveling like a tourist with 20 suitcases. Especially if there is no cell reception in the area.
No, almost all early AU comments from the public after an msm article leaned towards nefarious reasons. I’m still going with my first impression. The drone is the key. But what did it unlock?

 

[Midwestmom2019]

From the link you posted above.

"A spare set of keys was found hidden on the car, but it is believed Mr Hill took the main set with him." (first I've heard of this).

What I recall from very early reports is that there were keys found in the ignition. Not on the car hidden. If hidden on the truck, even more reason for them to wait and drive out.

 

[neesaki]

Full article from Herald Sun:

"Foul play is now the most likely scenario in the High Country mystery of missing friends Russell Hill and Carol Clay, police believe.

Investigators are looking at the prospect a “third-party” is involved in the disappearance of the pair in east Gippsland almost three months ago.

Detective Insp. Andrew Stamper of the missing persons squad said the circumstances of the mystery indicate they are the victims of foul play and has urged anyone in the area at the time to come forward.

Mr Hill and Ms Clay vanished after arriving in the Wonnangatta Valley in East Gippsland for a camping trip.

They were last known to be alive on March 20 when Mr Hill made brief contact with a mate via radio at 6.30pm as they set up camp before dark at the Dry River Creek Track.

Something happened to them in the 18 hours after that call.

The next day, at about 2pm, other visitors came across the campsite and saw no sign of Mr Hill and Ms Clay.

A large-scale search of the area, which has run on-and-off for more than 30 days, has found no trace of the couple.

Experienced officers from the search and rescue squad have told missing persons squad detectives they believe the couple are not in the search zone.

This has made the likelihood of them perishing in an accident or some other non-suspicious circumstances increasingly remote.

Mr Hill was known to not stray too far from where he set up camp.

The working theory is that someone has removed them from the area.

There are unusual elements which have added to the puzzle of what happened at Wonnangatta.

The cause of a fire at their campsite remains unexplained.

It was ferocious enough to destroy a tent, a table and chairs and scorch the side of Mr Hill’s Toyota Landcruiser.

Another element is Mr Hill’s drone, which has not been found.

Ms Clay’s belongings were found in the locked Toyota and her vehicle was later located at her Pakenham home.

This always made the possibility they staged their own disappearance remote because they would have needed a third vehicle.

Tracking everybody who was in the area has for weeks been a major part of the inquiry.

Investigators are still keen to hear from as many as 200 who had been in the area but have still made contact after a recent public appeal.

Detective Insp. Stamper said they were not in trouble but that the process of working out who was there – whether they knew anything or not – was crucial.

Anyone with any other information on the disappearance or who has any CCTV or dashcam footage can call Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or visit the website"

Wow! I’ve had the feeling there were too many suspicious coincidences, especially with the totally burned up camp site.
I do wonder about the reported sightings though. Thanks for posting!

 

[neesaki]

Hi all, I'm new here, I just joined because I'm interested in this case.
I have camped in the Wonnangatta valley twice in the last 18 months, don't know the area super well but have a decent idea of the landscape and general area. I also spend a lot of my free time in the Victorian high country and bush as I'm a keen camper/4-wheel-driver, so I have some experience with the general behaviors of people out camping in the Australian bush and the dangers you might encounter I guess.
I don't have any firm theories about this case as to whether it was an accident or foul play but I lean towards foul play (also I realise police have now said they think it might be foul play) but I have a few thoughts on the possibilities either way and some of the theories that have been posted here.
The Wonnangatta valley is a massive open area, when I have camped there the only walks myself and others in the camp have taken are to the old homestead and cemetery site, this is in the open area and its an easy flat walk on the main tracks. If they went for a walk on the friday evening I cant imagine they would stray far from camp so maybe they would go to the homestead. If they did go for a harder bush walk perhaps leaving early saturday morning, I find it hard to believe they would walk from camp, if it were me I would drive closer to my location. So I don't think them going for a walk and getting injured or having a medical emergency is likely.
With the missing drone, again, if i was flying a drone and it lost battery and landed itself or crashed etc, unless is was very close to camp I would drive as close as I could get to it, remembering the Wonnangatta valley is a massive open area, chances are you could drive a long way before having to walk thru bush to find it.
The burnt campsite is super sus to me, it could be a crazy coincidence but i just find it weird. Camping equipment is generally not super flammable, I've had embers from the campfire burn holes in my chairs and tents before, but nothing has ever gone up in flames. It would be so unlikely that anyone with common sense would accidentally burn down their campsite, you would have to be doing something really stupid or have a crazy freak accident and I just don't see two people in their 70s lacking common sense.
So it seems most likely to me that something happened to them at the camp and they were removed from the area and the campsite purposely burnt to hide evidence and the drone taken because there was something incriminating recorded. Who, what and why I really have no idea. I highly doubt it was an angry spouse or kids looking for an inheritance etc, it just wouldn't make any sense to follow them hours into the bush where vehicles are more likely to be noticed and where things could go wrong like their vehicle break down and have to get help.
The drug crop theory would make more sense to me however i don't know if the conditions would be right for growing or if it would be too cold etc? I have heard of bike riders stumbling across marijuana crops in the bush before though.
There hasn't been a lot discussed here about the "button man" theory, but I have heard chat from locals to the area and hunters/campers that they think Russell was looking for him with his drone during his previous visit to the area and he was returning to dig a bit deeper. I don't know if there's any truth to that theory but it could fit.

Thanks for weighing in, and welcome! Your insight and knowledge of the area is very helpful. I wonder why he may have been looking for the Button Man. Any idea why he’s known by that name? TIA

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Ok, I didn't realise that this was newly released information, although I noted the date on the article was today. Sunday seems like a strange day to release new information on an ongoing case. Yes, we already knew the vehicle was locked.

So now we know that a spare set of keys was found on the vehicle. This puts a different spin on things.

On the truck or in the truck? Or both?

 

[trujac]

The earliest article that I could find on RH and CC is this one posted by abc.net March 31 2020...any articles that were published before this date don't seem to be available searching through google on the internet. Two pieces of information in this article that I find noteworthy...RH and CC were not romantically involved/LE was trying to determine who started and extinguished the campsite fire. I assumed the fire continued to burn until it naturally went out, and it would make sense that RH and CC were just friends...but it also begs the question why were they focused on camping with each other in an extremely remote area with no amenities if they weren't in an intimate relationship, especially since CC appears to be a lady who exhibits an active lifestyle of refinement and a well documented appreciation for lots of social contact?? What was she doing out there with RH if there they were just friends? It just seems strange to me that CC would be motivated to camp off the grid, sleeping in a rudimentary tent with a very primitive outdoor shower and toilet rigged up, unless there was a very compelling reason for her to want to be there.
Mystery deepens over missing pair as campsite found burnt out with working vehicle

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Your thoughts about this case are interesting--the idea that something happened to RH and CC that was beyond a thrill kill or a random hostile situation that escalated to murder seems possible...the fact that RH spent a lot of time frequently traveling a long distance to and from this area to camp suggests that he had a serious ongoing draw to the area. Could this mean he was studying something? The area is extremely remote with no distractions other than a couple people possibly passing through and wildlife. I could see someone routinely camping there as a hobby when the weather was nice...but it seems like RH devoted a lot of camping time there for several years. Maybe he stumbled on something that picqued his interest and ultimately lead to some type of deadly conflict.

That or familiarity. I understand that he was a retired logger and that seemed to be his area. But serious ongoing draw? I’d like to at least consider your observation as another lead. After retirement, was he hired as a consultant to continue his work for the logging company? That could answer his ongoing draw. And his wife not concerning herself with his frequent trips. Or the purchase of a sophisticated drone. You’d think LE would think of these things, as well.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

The earliest article that I could find on RH and CC is this one posted by abc.net March 31 2020...any articles that were published before this date don't seem to be available searching through google on the internet. Two pieces of information in this article that I find noteworthy...RH and CC were not romantically involved/LE was trying to determine who started and extinguished the campsite fire. I assumed the fire continued to burn until it naturally went out, and it would make sense that RH and CC were just friends...but it also begs the question why were they focused on camping with each other in an extremely remote area with no amenities if they weren't in an intimate relationship, especially since CC appears to be a lady who exhibits an active lifestyle of refinement and a well documented appreciation for lots of social contact?? What was she doing out there with RH if there they were just friends? It just seems strange to me that CC would be motivated to camp off the grid, sleeping in a rudimentary tent with a very primitive outdoor shower and toilet rigged up, unless there was a very compelling reason for her to want to be there.
Mystery deepens over missing pair as campsite found burnt out with working vehicle

She did not want to be exposed to the scandal of an affair. She was still married, herself. Both couples led separate lives. I know many that do that, as well. Too complicated to untangle 50 years. I’m making absolutely no negative remarks other than it’s possible. Probable. They are consenting adults. FWIW I’m not sure Mrs. RH didn’t know anything. Again. None of our business. But she was very well known and had they rendezvoused locally, the rumor mill would have been insane.
I ran into close friends from a Midwest USA city while in the middle of Europe up in the mountains on a trail. Not even a restaurant. Go figure.

 

[trujac]

Good for them, if in fact they had become weekend farmers. At that age, they should be able to do pretty much anything. And with all the medicinal uses for weed, maybe so. They might have had small plantings all around the valley, necessitating various camping sites.
I just don’t think so.
Back to phone chargers, I have chargers in my car, office and by my bed. Going camping, I’d think a car charger would be enough. No sense in traveling like a tourist with 20 suitcases. Especially if there is no cell reception in the area.
No, almost all early AU comments from the public after an msm article leaned towards nefarious reasons. I’m still going with my first impression. The drone is the key. But what did it unlock?

yes, I agree...the drone is a highly sophisticated surveillance device that could potentially have a lot to do with RH and CC's disappearance--on a side note, during the peak of covid-19 Honolulu LE flew drones that were equipped with speakers along the Waikiki beach areas...the drones observed who was on the beach not practicing social distancing and then on a loud speaker confronted them with a possible arrest if they didn't comply with the mandated public covid-19 rules. I have no idea what RH's drone was capable of, but it wouldn't surprise me with his experience in electronics, he rigged his drone to perform more than when he first bought it.

 

[trujac]

She did not want to be exposed to the scandal of an affair. She was still married, herself. Both couples led separate lives. I know many that do that, as well. Too complicated to untangle 50 years. I’m making absolutely no negative remarks other than it’s possible. Probable. They are consenting adults. FWIW I’m not sure Mrs. RH didn’t know anything. Again. None of our business. But she was very well known and had they rendezvoused locally, the rumor mill would have been insane.
I ran into close friends from a Midwest USA city while in the middle of Europe up in the mountains on a trail. Not even a restaurant. Go figure.

I don't think CC was married but from all appearances RH and CC weren't secretive people...that is why I finding the camping trips they took interesting--namely, because it seems like they must have had a compelling reason to hang together were they did--out in the boonies. The camper that ran into them in February before RH and CC disappeared said that he spoke with them...and they both seemed perfectly relaxed and comfortable telling him that they lived in separate homes. I would think if they were concealing an affair they would have not mentioned their living arrangements or the nature of their relationship...but nothing in this case is black and white--your idea about RH still working for the logging company is very insightful...the amount of time he spent up there camping and his drone would definitely come into play if he was hired by the logging company to act as a type of forest ranger overseeing and protecting the area.

 

[Panda]

Thanks for weighing in, and welcome! Your insight and knowledge of the area is very helpful. I wonder why he may have been looking for the Button Man. Any idea why he’s known by that name? TIA

From Express Digest:

"He is understood to have earned his nickname due to his hobby of using deer antlers to make buttons – which he then uses as large ear piercings.

Using well crafted traditional spears, the man is known to camp for weeks on end in remote bushlands and hunt for deer, the Age reported."

 

[Panda]

On the truck or in the truck? Or both?

As previously quoted:

"A spare set of keys was found hidden on the car, but it is believed Mr Hill took the main set with him.

That the car was locked likely indicated the pair left the campsite voluntarily, probably to go for a walk or fly the drone."

 

[trujac]

One thing is clear from all the news articles--the brevity of information on RH; the only information we have is his skills with the ham radio, skills in roughing it in the bush lands, he was a previous logger, he has medical conditions, and he has a wife. I couldn't find any information about his personal life--other than a picture of him holding a toddler...what else was he doing besides going camping?? CC's personal information is a lot more in-depth. It is pretty clear how she occupied her time outside of camping with RH. I can't stop thinking on Midwestmom's comment--that perhaps he was doing some kind of work while camping in the Wonnangatta Valley. That makes sense to me because of the level of commitment RH had in frequently visiting area. The question of what goes on in the Wonnangatta valley that is illegal and needs monitoring might be a worthwhile road to explore in this case.

 

[Panda]

yes, I agree...the drone is a highly sophisticated surveillance device that could potentially have a lot to do with RH and CC's disappearance--on a side note, during the peak of covid-19 Honolulu LE flew drones that were equipped with speakers along the Waikiki beach areas...the drones observed who was on the beach not practicing social distancing and then on a loud speaker confronted them with a possible arrest if they didn't comply with the mandated public covid-19 rules. I have no idea what RH's drone was capable of, but it wouldn't surprise me with his experience in electronics, he rigged his drone to perform more than when he first bought it.

"with his experience in electronics" Why do you say he's experienced in electronics? I hadn't read any reference to that.