Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[TootsieFootsie]

Maybe it was someone in Carol's family that knew she was travelling with Russell, seeing as his wife didn't know.

I seem to remember that the first reports mentioned both of them missing. I don't recall any just reporting him as missing

 

[Tinker Taylor]

Maybe it was someone in Carol's family that knew she was travelling with Russell, seeing as his wife didn't know.

I seem to remember that the first reports mentioned both of them missing. I don't recall any just reporting him as missing

Yes. That's odd, don't you think?

Of course, there could have been a third person too, because as far as we know, no one saw them on the journey or setting up the camp. Now if there was another person.........

 

[Panda]

Thanks Paul. Interesting that a neighbour would contact Police to report seeing him with Carol. She obviously didn't let anyone else know where and with whom she was going away. I wonder how the neighbour would have known Russell and known that he was missing? Was the search for him/them started the following day or a week later?

I would think the police would have canvassed the neighbours after their disappearance, during their investigation. I doubt a neighbour would have contacted the police, unless they saw footage on the TV or something along those lines.

 

[trujac]

Until proved otherwise, that makes as viable a theory as any other.

Yes...all ideas and theories should be entertained, IMO. I might just say...after age 70 it get progressively more difficult to do manual labor...the knees start to hurt more, especially when kneeling down, rotator cuff injuries happen more frequently--which are especially excruciating, and with RH documented health related conditions, along with his long term occupation of being a logger, it would seem to me that tending to a wild crop of cannabis or even a wild herd would put physical demands on both RH and CC that neither of them could adequately perform.

 

[trujac]

Has anyone come across any information to validate Russell's wallet being found and credit cards and cash missing (how they would know that he had cash is beyond me, but anyway). I feel this is misinformation as I still can't find any reference to it in MSM.

Panda--I haven't seen that information either.

 

[trujac]

Good for them, if in fact they had become weekend farmers. At that age, they should be able to do pretty much anything. And with all the medicinal uses for weed, maybe so. They might have had small plantings all around the valley, necessitating various camping sites.
I just don’t think so.
Back to phone chargers, I have chargers in my car, office and by my bed. Going camping, I’d think a car charger would be enough. No sense in traveling like a tourist with 20 suitcases. Especially if there is no cell reception in the area.
No, almost all early AU comments from the public after an msm article leaned towards nefarious reasons. I’m still going with my first impression. The drone is the key. But what did it unlock?

Midwestmom...lol...weekend farmers has a sweet ring to it! Weekend Warriors is a term that describes folks who like to do massive weekend overhauls on homes--can you really see RH and CC in Wonnangatta Valley gardening? Think of all the water they would have to haul, not to mention fertilizer and tools...I think they are too old for that...RH's heart problems would be a ticking time bomb with over exertion setting it off, IMO.

 

[trujac]

The most likely scenario IMO is the following:
He is a radio ham and a technophile .. therefore after setting up camp on Friday 20th March he would soon be piloting the drone and exploring the limits of his new 'toy'.
The drone aborted due to weak signal and did a default 'return to home'.
The battery expired and the craft did a forced landing .. somewhere.
He would know the location from the GPS and go look for it.
Being confident in the bush he would set out early next day (Sat 21st) to retrieve it.
He got into trouble and called back to Carol for assistance using short range 'handy talkie'.
She also got into trouble and in her haste left something on the stove which later burned down the tent.
They got lost or injured. . and then benighted.
This, (and the recent search for the autistic boy) show the inadequacy of current searching methodology.
More use of drones and high res thermal imaging required...

Your ideas are feasible, and something like that could have happened. RH's last ham radio contact was at 6:30pm. March 20; he told family and friends that he needed to still setup his campsite...unless he and CC had already been abducted, held against their will and were forced to make a call from RH's ham radio the last evening that anyone heard from them. I assume after he ended his ham radio call, he drove to a suitable place and set up his campsite. Setting up a tent, dragging out the bedding and whatever else--cooking supplies, and their potable shower/toilet would take at least 2 hours to do. I don't see RH flying his drone that night. Assuming RH put together his drone the following morning and proceeded to fly it and the aircraft went down somewhere beyond their campsite, I don't see RH striking out on foot to locate it... unless the drone was in easy walking distance from their camp location and in a clearing of some sort. Several news articles stated, based on his health conditions, RH did not ever venture on foot far from his campsite. You point out an interesting possibility, and a likely one, IMO--RH and CC had walkie talkies that enable them to talk to each other from a distance. The notion that CC could have burnt down their tent, chairs, and table--basically everything besides the portable shower/toilet by RH's truck, because she left the campsite with food cooking on a stove to go and look for RH as he searched for his lost drone, seems a hard sell to me. CC was an accomplished cook based on the testimonies of her many friends to the news media. The idea that she wouldn't know how to safely setup and temporarily leaving a cooking situation at a campsite doesn't seem to fit her level of cooking experience, IMO.

 

[trujac]

I was wondering the same thing.

I seem to remember reading that some of her family knew about the camping trip with Russell.

Several news articles said CC's family and friends were aware that CC went camping with RH often..."and nobody thought anything of it." RH's wife was quoted as saying she had no idea her husband was camping with CC, and wasn't aware that they had been camping together for quite a long time. She didn't think anything regarding their friendship, as she and RH had known and been friends with CC for decades.

 

[neesaki]

Don’t most camp stoves still operate off of propane or butane? Sterno is also sometimes used for cooking. Some lanterns use those types of fuel as well.

As far as a fire accelerant, if they were using anything like this at their camp site, that would qualify would it not, whether accidentally or done purposely. I guess I’m wondering how the investigation resulted in no accelerant detected for the fire, unless they weren’t using anything that required that type of fuel.

 

[Panda]

Don’t most camp stoves still operate off of propane or butane? Sterno is also sometimes used for cooking. Some lanterns use those types of fuel as well.

As far as a fire accelerant, if they were using anything like this at their camp site, that would qualify would it not, whether accidentally or done purposely. I guess I’m wondering how the investigation resulted in no accelerant detected for the fire, unless they weren’t using anything that required that type of fuel.

That is an excellent point neesaki. Depending what type of lighting and cooking used, it could be propane (or LPG in Australia) or kero.

If LPG in a gas bottle, wouldn't that explode? If so, it would be quite a loud "bang" I would have thought.

 

[Panda]

Just found this article from Channel 9:

"Local cattleman Bruce McCormack, who has assisted in many searches over the years, said the valley they were camping in was up to 1000 acres of "clear country".

"It's sort of a great open area in the middle of the Alpine National Park."

He said around one kilometre away from the campsite, the area turned into dense bushland where you would "never find them"."

 

[trujac]

neesaki I noticed what looked like a burnt out 12 volt battery in the heap of RH and CC's destroyed campsite. Maybe that is what they were using battery forms of producing fire for cooking. Here's an example:
Biolite CampStove 2 with Flexlight | Next Adventure

 

[neesaki]

neesaki I noticed what looked like a burnt out 12 volt battery in the heap of RH and CC's destroyed campsite. Maybe that is what they were using battery forms of producing fire for cooking. Here's an example:
Biolite CampStove 2 with Flexlight | Next Adventure

That must be it, thanks trujac! I didn’t know such things existed, now ya know how long it’s been since I’ve been camping, LOL.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

I would think the police would have canvassed the neighbours after their disappearance, during their investigation. I doubt a neighbour would have contacted the police, unless they saw footage on the TV or something along those lines.

My point is, that if someone (a neighbour perhaps) hadn't reported she/he saw Russell loading Carol's things up, then nobody would have known she was with him! How would Police have know to canvas her neighbours otherwise? She apparently just told people she was going away for a few days, but did not say where or with whom. So we have to assume that the neighbour knew Russell by sight and ALSO knew he was missing and ALSO knew Carol had not returned. Thus my question of how long after the burnt out campsite was found did they start to search for the couple? Surely it must have been at least a few days after Carol had told people she expected to be home?

 

[Panda]

My point is, that if someone (a neighbour perhaps) hadn't reported she/he saw Russell loading Carol's things up, then nobody would have known she was with him! How would Police have know to canvas her neighbours otherwise? She apparently just told people she was going away for a few days, but did not say where or with whom. So we have to assume that the neighbour knew Russell by sight and ALSO knew he was missing and ALSO knew Carol had not returned. Thus my question of how long after the burnt out campsite was found did they start to search for the couple? Surely it must have been at least a few days after Carol had told people she expected to be home?

Carol left her belongings in Russell's car. Presumably she would have carried a handbag with her ID in it. So they would have gone to the address on her driver's licence and canvassed neighbours.

I don't remember when police were first contacted - if it was before they were due back or not. I'll have to go back and check, unless anyone else can remember.

 

[SouthAussie]

My point is, that if someone (a neighbour perhaps) hadn't reported she/he saw Russell loading Carol's things up, then nobody would have known she was with him! How would Police have know to canvas her neighbours otherwise? She apparently just told people she was going away for a few days, but did not say where or with whom.

Some of Carol's family knew she was going away with Russell.

"Hill’s family did not know he was going away with Clay, but some of her family were aware."
https://7news.com.au/news/vic/missi...together-month-before-disappearance-c-1057655

"Ms Clay had told some of her family she was camping with Mr Hill."

NoCookies | The Australian

 

[Kemug]

Carol left her belongings in Russell's car. Presumably she would have carried a handbag with her ID in it. So they would have gone to the address on her driver's licence and canvassed neighbours.

 

[Kemug]

But wouldn't her drivers licence have had her old address on it, given that she had only moved into her new home a week previously? Unless Carol and the Victorian authorities are super efficient?!

 

[trujac]

Tinker and Panda, there seems to be at least two time lines in all the articles that have been published regarding when RH and CC camp was discovered and when LE was contacted.
I just picked these two daily mail articles as an example, but I read through 6 other articles all of which had varying time lines for when LE discovered the burnt down campsite--one article even said the torched campsite was discovered on March 27th!
In this article published 9 days ago the camp was discovered 2 days after it burnt down: "Their disappearance has baffled local authorities who found their campsite burned out two days later."
Police suspect foul play involved in the disappearance of campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay | Daily Mail Online
In this article RH's wife appears to have notified LE:
"He's always been on the radio. He didn't call for quite a few days and then I started to get worried and thought 'I've got to do something now', 'she told Daily Mail Australia."
Chilling twist in case of married man who vanished with 'glamour queen' friend on a camping trip | Daily Mail Online
I thought the first articles published on this case stated that another camper came upon RH and CC's burnt campsite the following day and called authorities. It could be that it took a day to confirm the campsite occupants and the owner of the scorched truck.
There was an article that stated CC's family was aware of her camping arrangements with RH. There was never a point in time that LE announced that they were only looking for RH. Since all published articles on this case state CC belongings were found in RH's vehicle, it seems likely that LE quickly determined that CC was camping with RH. Other than that, it isn't exactly clear to me either...

 

[trujac]

Carol left her belongings in Russell's car. Presumably she would have carried a handbag with her ID in it. So they would have gone to the address on her driver's licence and canvassed neighbours.

I don't remember when police were first contacted - if it was before they were due back or not. I'll have to go back and check, unless anyone else can remember.

It took me awhile to research the news articles for the various info--and after I posted my comments, I come back and see you have posted a new comment--and we are both busy thinking along the same lines...