Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #8

[emirates1957]

It is hard to get 12 people who don't even know each other to agree on anything. Let alone something of complexity.

As a matter of interest……is there like a pool of jurors they start off with and whittle them down to 12?

 

[jjleroche]

If he is found guilty of murder….let’s hope there is not a 3rd person, which by definition would make him a serial killer.

Or a 4th...or 5th..

MAYBE, as others have mentioned, this is not the accused's first rodeo...

JMO

These four men went into Victoria's mysterious High Country and never returned

9now.nine.com.au

 

[Cliff Hardy]

As a matter of interest……is there like a pool of jurors they start off with and whittle them down to 12?

As they knew this would be a long case, they started with 15 jurors. Along the way they lost one juror due to illness. The 14 then continued til the end of the evidence and at that point 2 were sent home. Leaving the final 12.

 

[JLZ]

As they knew this would be a long case, they started with 15 jurors. Along the way they lost one juror due to illness. The 14 then continued til the end of the evidence and at that point 2 were sent home. Leaving the final 12.

If one of the twelve gets sick say a week after the evidence has finished, the jury still deliberating, do they call in one of the other two?

 

[wallyworld]

Greg Lynn: Jury sent home for weekend in former pilot’s trial over deaths of Russell Hill and Carol Clay June 21, 2024 - 12:54PM​

The trial has not sat past 1pm on Fridays due to one juror’s personal commitments, with the jury brought back in about 12.45pm on Friday.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/greg-lynn-jury-sent-home-for-weekend-in-former-pilots-trial-over-deaths-of-russell-hill-and-carol-clay/news-story/763eb9f0badd231d3f36bb8aa30b90e9

 

[TootsieFootsie]

MSN

Double-murder deliberations set to enter second week​

The jury was sent home just before 1pm on Friday, with Supreme Court Justice Michael Croucher reminding them not to discuss the case with anyone over the weekend.

 

[SouthAussie]

PS: I still think it’s interesting the sleeping bags were taken…. Perhaps the couple never left their tent…

I had to go back through the old threads to find the link ... (paraphrased) ... the prosecution would not rely on the sleeping bags being missing, because sleeping bags these days have plastic zips, and those zips would have melted in the fire.

March 14, 2021

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts/4wd-key-as-police-close-in-on-high-country-suspect/news-story/876e9df34a4a3590b9b8506c18d865dc?amp

 

[TootsieFootsie]

One of the latest articles said the jurors are not sitting past 1pm on Fridays due to one jurors ongoing commitments after 1pm on Fridays

 

[sapphire blue]

PS: I still think it’s interesting the sleeping bags were taken…. Perhaps the couple never left their tent…

GL said that he thought ‘they were trying to have fun in bed’ before they were killed, so it’s very possible they were still in their bed in the tent when killed.

 

[Bats]

If one of the twelve gets sick say a week after the evidence has finished, the jury still deliberating, do they call in one of the other two?

No, I believe if one gets sick now that deliberations have started, they stop deliberations until the ill person is better. I don't think they can get trimmed to 11 members in a murder trial so if someone gets very sick or for some reason can't return, then it will be a retrial.
I think that's how it works here in Victoria, but I my be wrong.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

If one of the twelve gets sick say a week after the evidence has finished, the jury still deliberating, do they call in one of the other two?

Great question.

Just noticed @Bats looks to have it covered above.

 

[mam544]

It is hard to get 12 people who don't even know each other to agree on anything. Let alone something of complexity.

Never has a truer word been spoken Cliff.

 

[BreakingNews]

No, I believe if one gets sick now that deliberations have started, they stop deliberations until the ill person is better. I don't think they can get trimmed to 11 members in a murder trial so if someone gets very sick or for some reason can't return, then it will be a retrial.
I think that's how it works here in Victoria, but I my be wrong.

It is up to the Judge. S/he can accept 11 unanimous verdicts if someone gets sick.

 

[BreakingNews]

Never has a truer word been spoken Cliff.

I disagree. I've been on a murder trial.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think it probably varies from jury to jury and from case to case
Some may have no problem reaching a verdict, while others just can't quite get there.

I seem to remember one case where the jury was out for ages. The spokesperson said they were unable to agree, and the judge sent them back to try again.

I don't recall a case where deliberations failed, and the judge has then changed it to a majority verdict.
But maybe that has happened in some cases, I don't know.

 

[CyberHound]

I have met a few town rangers/bush patrol/bush ranger types in my time and every one was a sociopath. They are chosen to be confrontational in the wilderness and to fear nothing. Maybe RH called one bluff too many. Old school is an understatement.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

I think it probably varies from jury to jury and from case to case
Some may have no problem reaching a verdict, while others just can't quite get there.

I seem to remember one case where the jury was out for ages. The spokesperson said they were unable to agree, and the judge sent them back to try again.

I don't recall a case where deliberations failed, and the judge has then changed it to a majority verdict.
But maybe that has happened in some cases, I don't know.

Occasionally there is just one juror that just won't budge no matter what.

For all we know, this could be one of those times.

 

[SouthAussie]

Justin Stein's trial was a complex case, with Stein blaming Kallista, and the prosecutor blaming Stein for Charlise's murder.
It took almost two weeks of deliberations to find him guilty.

Next week, the jury will be heading into its 2nd week in Lynn's trial. And this is another complex case.

We probably shouldn't get too twitchy until the end of next week, if the verdicts still haven't been decided at that point.

imo

 

[Bats]

It is up to the Judge. S/he can accept 11 unanimous verdicts if someone gets sick.

I don't think that is the case in the state of Victoria. The state allows some convictions of 11 unanimous jurors but with the exception of a murder conviction.

Interestingly, i think the judge can accept a majority 'not guilty' verdict from 11 jurors, but not a 'guilty' verdict from 11 jurors, for the charge of murder.

That's the way i interpreted the rules anyway.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

JURIES ACT 2000 - SECT 46 Failure to reach unanimous verdict in criminal trials

classic.austlii.edu.au

Victorian Current Acts​

Failure to reach unanimous verdict in criminal trials