Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #9

[SouthAussie]

I made have read this and forgotten - how did they find the remains?

Lynn told them where he obliterated Russell and Carol's remains. He wouldn't go with them and show them - but when the police got to the area, Brett Florence called Sale police station and FaceTimed with Lynn in his cell. Lynn directed them up the Union Spur Track until he identified the exact spot.

The police saw scorching on the ground, and saw a jumble of leaves and such in the root ball hole. They couldn't identify anything. So they called in Dr Soren Blau (forensic anthropologist) and she found the first piece of human bone. Ultimately, they found 2100 pieces of bone - the fragments amounted to about 10% of 2 normal human skeletons.

Ref:' In the Dead of Night by Greg Haddrick

 

[SouthAussie]

DBM

 

[Bats]

I made have read this and forgotten - how did they find the remains?

You can also see him explain the location in the police interview.

At around 33 minute mark.

 

[Cedars]

I was quite surprised. I said here at the time of his arrest that he would likely say nothing and let the prosecution try to make a case. Had he remained silent, I think the crown would have been up against it.

However, I was forgetting that Machiavellian narcissists (borderline psychopaths) think that they are smarter than everyone else and need to take charge. His taking the stand during the trial is yet another example.

Yes, from that video of his 'confession' just posted, he'd obviously decided the best defense was a good offense: just treat it as an ordinary matter of a little problem he'd encountered with a neighbour and resolved, no biggie, any rational person would do the same thing.

You'd never guess from that video of him drawing maps that he was the type to shout obsenities at the car radio...among who knows what else.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, from that video of his 'confession' just posted, he'd obviously decided the best defense was a good offense: just treat it as an ordinary matter of a little problem he'd encountered with a neighbour and resolved, no biggie, any rational person would do the same thing.

The recollection in Greg Haddrick's book says that Brett and Dan had the impression, during the interview, that Lynn thought (maybe hoped) they would chuck him his car keys and let him go home.

 

[emirates1957]

My theory is that something happened on his 2016 trip that made him want to change the colour of his car. It would be interesting to investigate his down time via Crewing Departments with various airlines to see his movements, eg: RDO’s, Annual Leave etc…there would be a solid record of times and durations of availability with perhaps other indiscretions.

 

[emirates1957]

Do we know exactly when he changed the car colour the first time, was it just after his trip or later.
It was said to be blue by 2019.

Maybe something happened on the way back home. Or later.

I know there was a hit and run in Jamieson, in the high country in 2017 but police think it may have been deer hunters because the dying man said he saw bright lights.

Hit-and-run appeal sees new information on the death of Bryce Airs

Police say they will begin investigating promising leads following a fresh appeal into the hit and run death of a Jamieson man last year.

www.abc.net.au

It would be interesting if LE investigated Crewing Departments from various airlines whereby GL worked to supply Rosters indicating RDO’s, Annual Leave, Sick Days ….perhaps to get a handle on other …um things!!

 

[Trooper]

It would be interesting if LE investigated Crewing Departments from various airlines whereby GL worked to supply Rosters indicating RDO’s, Annual Leave, Sick Days ….perhaps to get a handle on other …um things!!

Apparently he left your eminent competitor, Qatar Airlines (due to Jeststar shrinking with Covid,) under a bit of mysterious cloud, Em, the book refers to it as if thru a veil,, that he was employed by Qatar, (as a check pilot, no less, ) was on a run to Sydney and suddenly left their employ.. something to do with a woman who went on a trip into the desert with him, and did not return............as in reference to um other things, hard to believe this was his first rodeo....

 

[emirates1957]

Apparently he left your eminent competitor, Qatar Airlines (due to Jeststar shrinking with Covid,) under a bit of mysterious cloud, Em, the book refers to it as if thru a veil,, that he was employed by Qatar, (as a check pilot, no less, ) was on a run to Sydney and suddenly left their employ.. something to do with a woman who went on a trip into the desert with him, and did not return............as in reference to um other things, hard to believe this was his first rodeo....

Must get the book Troops. So he was a Check Captain there as well. Checkers are held in somewhat high esteem. Hard to believe that friends and family have not pushed the envelope to investigate what happened to this lady (or perhaps maybe they have to no avail). What a loose cannon !!

 

[Kemug]

Must get the book Troops. So he was a Check Captain there as well. Checkers are held in somewhat high esteem. Hard to believe that friends and family have not pushed the envelope to investigate what happened to this lady (or perhaps maybe they have to no avail). What a loose cannon !!

Maybe he deliberately chooses people who don't have many friends and family - yes, I'm probably getting into fantasy here.

 

[JBowie]

Maybe he deliberately chooses people who don't have many friends and family - yes, I'm probably getting into fantasy here.

Narcissists do tend to do at and they also tend to isolate their victim from friends and family.

 

[JBowie]

do at

Should read 'do that'.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

The recollection in Greg Haddrick's book says that Brett and Dan had the impression, during the interview, that Lynn thought (maybe hoped) they would chuck him his car keys and let him go home.

For someone who received much credit for his intelligence, Lynn also demonstrated some surprising naivety. Like when he answered questions raised by the police and then added straight afterward 'but no comment', like he thought it somehow protected him from the ramifications of what he had just said.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Must get the book Troops. So he was a Check Captain there as well. Checkers are held in somewhat high esteem. Hard to believe that friends and family have not pushed the envelope to investigate what happened to this lady (or perhaps maybe they have to no avail). What a loose cannon !!

Checkers also receive quite extraordinary salaries. Lynn said he was 'the victim in all of this' because he could see he would be waving that salary behind. Not to mention membership of his little clubs. Such a jolly inconvenience.

 

[emirates1957]

Checkers also receive quite extraordinary salaries. Lynn said he was 'the victim in all of this' because he could see he would be waving that salary behind. Not to mention membership of his little clubs. Such a jolly inconvenience.

Big time CH there is a percentage that is added on to his salary. So that category of Check Captain equals a “Silk” within legal status. Qatar Airlines I’m only guessing would perhaps endeavour “save face”…don’t know.

 

[emirates1957]

Maybe he deliberately chooses people who don't have many friends and family - yes, I'm probably getting into fantasy here.

Narcissists do tend to do at and they also tend to isolate their victim from friends and family.

Coercive control.

 

[Bats]

I've just finished reading Greg Haddrick's book, which I thought was thorough and well put together.

I started wondering about the 'chat' with Greg, very early in the investigation. It was deemed inadmissible evidence in the trial, due to the officers not reading him his rights, as at that point in time (over a year before his arrest), the judge felt he must have been considered a 'suspect'.

Also, after Greg's arrest, the whole Police interview initially being deemed inadmissible as it was judged he was being coerced into answering questions.

In stark contrast, in a different trial and different state, Brett Cowen (Daniel Morcombe's killer), was most definitely a 'suspect' when he was seduced into admitting he killed Daniel, by an undercover police officer acting as a crime boss in a sting operation. The secretly video taped confession was shown to the jury as part of the prosecution's evidence, undoubtedly helping to achieve the guilty verdict.

I suppose it shows how trials and interpretation of rules, are not really black and white...

Daniel Morcombe murder trial jurors hear confession

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Yes, Dan Passingham was pivotal in solving this case - and in getting Lynn to confess.

I suspect a lot of the inside information contained in Greg Haddrick's book came from Dan. There is information there that didn't come from transcripts and could have only come from an insider.

For those who are not aware ... Dan Passingham resigned from the police force late in 2023. He had given all he could to the investigation, considered the Greg Lynn interview some of his best work, only to have Dermot Dann and Justice Croucher label that work as appalling, oppressive and egregious. (Not to mention, also for Croucher to disallow all of Lynn's lies in the first hours of the interview to be heard at trial.)
Dan had had enough. (ref: pg 262 of In the Dead of Night)

imo

The more of the book I read, the more I tended to agree with you regarding Dan Passingham's potential/probable involvement in it. The section towards the end where Judge Croucher's actions and judgements were called into question reeked of the first-hand frustration endured by Passingham.

I almost wonder whether Haddrick virtually ghosted for Passingham in the writing of the book?

 

[Cliff Hardy]

I've just finished reading Greg Haddrick's book, which I thought was thorough and well put together.

I started wondering about the 'chat' with Greg, very early in the investigation. It was deemed inadmissible evidence in the trial, due to the officers not reading him his rights, as at that point in time (over a year before his arrest), the judge felt he must have been considered a 'suspect'.

Also, after Greg's arrest, the whole Police interview initially being deemed inadmissible as it was judged he was being coerced into answering questions.

In stark contrast, in a different trial and different state, Brett Cowen (Daniel Morcombe's killer), was most definitely a 'suspect' when he was seduced into admitting he killed Daniel, by an undercover police officer acting as a crime boss in a sting operation. The secretly video taped confession was shown to the jury as part of the prosecution's evidence, undoubtedly helping to achieve the guilty verdict.

I suppose it shows how trials and interpretation of rules, are not really black and white...

Daniel Morcombe murder trial jurors hear confession

I have read both Haddrick's book on the Hill/Clay case and Kate Kyriacou's excellent book ('The Sting') on the Morcombe case.

In principal, l agree with the comparison you have drawn between the handling of the investigations into Lynn and Cowen BUT...

When police use undercover operatives and in particular enter into 'Mr Big' type stings - as in the Morcombe case - the rules go out the window. They can get away with anything short of murder. This is highlighted in Kyriacou's book and there has been backlash against it at various levels because these operations still involve the use of police but during them they are allowed to lie, deceive, coerce, not read rights when it would otherwise be appropriate, etc.

From Haddrick's book we heard that the police planned on inserting an undercover operative from W.A. into Lynn's life. The stated reason was because they couldn't find evidence Lynn had a friend in the world whom he might confide in while they were 'listening in' on him. So they thought they would 'create' Lynn a friend. Needless to say, this action would have also have provided the investigators freedoms they otherwise would not and subsequently did not enjoy.

According to the book it was only COVID border bans that stopped the sting on Lynn from happening.

 

[SouthAussie]

I suppose it shows how trials and interpretation of rules, are not really black and white...

Daniel Morcombe murder trial jurors hear confession

This comment made me look to see the details of what the Supreme Court decided, when the prosecution appealed against Croucher's decisions to exclude evidence.

The details are publicly available now that the trial is over. Is is an interesting (and long) read as much of the evidence is discussed.

*****
Seems that Croucher did not want the evidence of Lynn destroying Russell and Carol's remains to be introduced at trial, to be seen as incriminating behaviour.

Point 86: The judge concluded that it was ‘safer’ and ‘more appropriate’ to deny the jury any use of the conduct as incriminating conduct as to murderous intent.

*****
The prosecution challenged this in the appeal ....

Point 90: The applicant submits that the trial judge erred in the application of s 20(1)(b) of the JDA and usurped the function of the jury.

Point 96: It should be a matter for the jury, rather than the judge, to determine whether, on the whole of the evidence, the respondent murdered Mr Hill in anger.

Point 99: Further, the ‘absence’ of forensic evidence is not capable of being used to bolster the account given by the respondent of Mr Hill’s death. It was he who did everything possible, including destroying all potential forensic evidence and Mr Hill’s remains, to conceal the death and how it happened.

*****
The respondent (Dermot Dann) fought back, but the official conclusion of the appeal says ...

Point 152: Leave to appeal is granted and the appeal allowed. The interlocutory decision is set aside. Except for paragraph (a) the Crown is permitted to rely upon the evidence identified in its Revised Notice, as well as the evidence that the respondent in November 2020 returned to the site of the bodies, burnt them and crushed and scattered their remains, as evidence of incriminating conduct both as to murder and manslaughter.

Supreme Court of Victoria Court of Appeal , S Eapcr 2024 0030 and Director of Public Prosecutions v Gregory Stuart Lynn [2024] VSCA 62 - BarNet Jade

The smart way to search, annotate and share Australian legal judgments, decisions and statutes!

jade.io