Australia Australia - Tegan Lane, 2 days old, Sydney, 14 Sept 1996 *K. Lane guilty*

[sosocurious]

In Lane's third police interview, she said she stayed the night at Andrew Norris's Balmain unit about six times, after they had been at the nearby Town Hall hotel.

His live-in girlfriend was never at home, but "most of her stuff was there", Lane said.


While she had his mobile phone number in 1996, Lane said: "It was made pretty clear not to contact him just in case someone else answered the phone".

"We did not have a 'relationship'," Lane said, agreeing it was a brief affair that was kept discrete.

Lane said she conceived Tegan weeks after they first got together, found out she was pregnant at about 10 to 12 weeks and told Mr Norris a few weeks later.

"He was aggressive and not pleased," she said.

Lane said she would have seen him once after then to discuss their arrangement before he and Mel came to the hospital and agreed to take Tegan.


Lane said she was on her own, while "they had each other".

"He thought I was a big enough and a hassle and a ," she said.

"He wanted absolutely nothing to do with me.

"He didn't want contact with me."

Detective Gaut asked her why, if Andrew was the natural father, did Lane not give his name as a contact person when she was admitted to hospital.


"Because he didn't want any record of that ... he didn't want anything to do with me," she replied.

"He was going to take your child?" the detective said.

"Our child," Lane replied.

The detective said he could not understand why, if Andrew was the father, that Lane told authorities the father was her then boyfriend, Duncan Gillies.

"Just foolish," she said.


Lane said she saw Tegan once after her birth, "over the new year" when Andrew and Mel brought her for a visit.

Keli Lane called a 'by baby's dad'


Keli must have got in contact with Andrew to let him, Mel and Mum, know what time she would be making her way down the lift to the foyer.

 

[sosocurious]

deleted

 

[JLZ]

I wonder if, after all of these years, Keli simply believes her own lies? Maybe anything else would destroy her psychologically.

(Also, don’t ‘they’ say, ‘There’s always a grain of truth to every lie.’?)

I think it's a point of honour or dignity with her, that everyone should accept her word whether she's lying or not, until she's ready to change her story.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

I wonder if, after all of these years, Keli simply believes her own lies? Maybe anything else would destroy her psychologically.

(Also, don’t ‘they’ say, ‘There’s always a grain of truth to every lie.’?)

Absolutely! I think she either believes her own lies or thinks she can convince everyone else as to the truth of her lies. She comes across as a naturally confident person.

Bohemian - how would you apply Occam's Razor principle here?

Isn't it simpler to believe that a mother who has a history of adopting our her babies, would have done so with Tegan too? Albeit maybe not in a way that was legal.

Keli thought nothing of lying about her the fathers of baby 1 and baby 3. She completely disregarded the truth about their biological origins and laid a false trail with no regard for those children being later able to discover the truth. (Although the record probably has been corrected now through all this!).

Isn't it more believable that Keli would also be reckless about the biological origins of Tegan too?

Legally Keli considers she gave Tegan to her "biological" father! Paternity fraud fits with her being similarly reckless about Tegan's origins too.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

I think it's a point of honour or dignity with her, that everyone should accept her word whether she's lying or not, until she's ready to change her story.

She came across very badly at the end of Episode 3 of Exposed when questioned about the truth of Andrew Morris/Norris name. Did anyone else find her reaction to being questioned very odd? Your observation seems to fit what happened at the end there perfectly.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

In Lane's third police interview, she said she stayed the night at Andrew Norris's Balmain unit about six times, after they had been at the nearby Town Hall hotel.

His live-in girlfriend was never at home, but "most of her stuff was there", Lane said.


While she had his mobile phone number in 1996, Lane said: "It was made pretty clear not to contact him just in case someone else answered the phone".

"We did not have a 'relationship'," Lane said, agreeing it was a brief affair that was kept discrete.

Lane said she conceived Tegan weeks after they first got together, found out she was pregnant at about 10 to 12 weeks and told Mr Norris a few weeks later.

"He was aggressive and not pleased," she said.

Lane said she would have seen him once after then to discuss their arrangement before he and Mel came to the hospital and agreed to take Tegan.


Lane said she was on her own, while "they had each other".

"He thought I was a big enough ***** and a hassle and a ," she said.

"He wanted absolutely nothing to do with me.

"He didn't want contact with me."

Detective Gaut asked her why, if Andrew was the natural father, did Lane not give his name as a contact person when she was admitted to hospital.


"Because he didn't want any record of that ... he didn't want anything to do with me," she replied.

"He was going to take your child?" the detective said.

"Our child," Lane replied.

The detective said he could not understand why, if Andrew was the father, that Lane told authorities the father was her then boyfriend, Duncan Gillies.

"Just foolish," she said.


Lane said she saw Tegan once after her birth, "over the new year" when Andrew and Mel brought her for a visit.

Keli Lane called a 'by baby's dad'


Keli must have got in contact with Andrew to let him, Mel and Mum, know what time she would be making her way down the lift to the foyer.

Didn't Keli tell Caro Meldrum-Hanna that she was the one doing the chasing of Andrew? She was the one who would ring him and yet above she is saying she was told not to ring him. Didn't the police note that she was embellishing details of her relationship with "Andrew" in the interview as she went a long.

Maybe there is some element of truth is some of the things she has said about "Andrew". Maybe this "Andrew" she had an affair with is not the "Andrew" she gave Tegan to?

 

[Morrisa]

She came across very badly at the end of Episode 3 of Exposed when questioned about the truth of Andrew Morris/Norris name. Did anyone else find her reaction to being questioned very odd? Your observation seems to fit what happened at the end there perfectly.

Yep. Totally. Didn't like being questioned instead of being listened too did she??

 

[JLZ]

Yep. Totally. Didn't like being questioned instead of being listened too did she??

I didn't catch it all but wasn't it something like, How dare you ask that, you're retraumatizing me, you're just like all the rest! Typical manipulator-speak, and absurd considering she's asked Caro to investigate, Caro is doing her best for her.

 

[Bohemian]

Absolutely! I think she either believes her own lies or thinks she can convince everyone else as to the truth of her lies. She comes across as a naturally confident person.

Bohemian - how would you apply Occam's Razor principle here?

Isn't it simpler to believe that a mother who has a history of adopting our her babies, would have done so with Tegan too? Albeit maybe not in a way that was legal.

Keli thought nothing of lying about her the fathers of baby 1 and baby 3. She completely disregarded the truth about their biological origins and laid a false trail with no regard for those children being later able to discover the truth. (Although the record probably has been corrected now through all this!).

Isn't it more believable that Keli would also be reckless about the biological origins of Tegan too?

Legally Keli considers she gave Tegan to her "biological" father! Paternity fraud fits with her being similarly reckless about Tegan's origins too.

I wasn’t thinking of Tegan’s gestation in relation to the totality of Keli’s full-term pregnancies/adoptions, rather I am trying to weigh up what is the simplest explanation for Tegan’s disappearance, ie; Keli abandoning/murdering Tegan or Keli putting her up for illegal adoption. To me, at least, a lot more steps have to be taken to ‘believe’ Keli’s story about Andrew Morris/Norris, his partner and his mother adopting Tegan than if Keli simply walked out of the hospital and abandoning/killing Tegan and, possibly, disposing of her remains.

As for Keli being reckless with the truth about who Tegan’s biological father was—that’s entirely possible, given that she seems to be an impulsive and compulsive liar.

 

[k-mac]

Abandoning a newborn in an industrial bin absolutely is murder! Unless done by an idiot who thought an infant would thrive there. Keli isn't an idiot.

yes sure is.
but in her mind, she didn't technically kill her though in that scenario.
and that disassociation keeps her sleeping at night is my guess.

Thank you for the warm welcome, Via Marple, Sosocurious, k-mac and Bohemian.

Yes the immunity thing is puzzling. At the Coronial Inquest I believe the police searches had been done but were not exhaustive. Searches were still continuing during the trial. As far as Keli was concerned she had told the truth. She had given Tegan to her "biological" father, there is nothing further for her to say. She still does not know that no possible search or any further searches the police do will turn up Tegan. She has nothing to confess in her mind.

The minute silence during one of her police interviews was also telling. Maybe she was contemplating coming clean about the false "biological" father situation then too, but this "Andrew" should have been on the birth certificate!

At her trial, she does not believe she would go down on the murder charge. The burden of proof is on the Prosecution and they have no direct evidence that anything happened to Tegan other than she cannot be found. Her problem is that her story of Andrew Morris/Norris does not ring true. It still doesn't and if he wasn't and never was the true biological father of Tegan then this may be a reason for that. She still had nothing to prove at the trial. She also went down on false swearing charges too. It is totally her MO to lie about the biological fathers of her children.

Keli has been trying for years to have her case looked into. She appealed and lost. I believe she has been writing to others who she think may help since losing her appeals. Only Caro Meldrum Hanna has now taken up her case, but she certainly isn't the only person she has written to or sought help from since being incarcerated.

Yes, Via Marple - I am leaning towards Keli being so irrational that she thinks she can get away with telling half truths. And sadly maybe she can't be helped? She couldn't fool Dr Anne Buise, who I am inclined to respect as a leading expert on these cases. She noted that Keli's story about "Andrew" was too superficial and her body language changed!

Maybe the information she is now releasing about "Andrew" via Caro Meldrum Hanna is true and she hopes will lead to the man she gave Tegan too but I highly doubt that all aspects of that part of her story are true. I hope the ABC Exposed Team is able to unpack her lies from the truth and actually uncover new evidence.

The scenarios put forward by Dr Buise were that it was conceivable that Keli may have abandoned Tegan somewhere or handed her to someone else, but actively murdering her baby did not fit! I leaning to the someone else being involved here. I don't think this "Andrew" is a total fabrication. Surely she wouldn't still be that stupid after 8 years in the clink!

Bohemian - I am off to learn about Occam's Razor. Sounds interesting.

curiosity your knowledge is good
Occam's razor is applied liberally around websleuths lol it stands the test of time!

 

[Bohemian]

I think it's a point of honour or dignity with her, that everyone should accept her word whether she's lying or not, until she's ready to change her story.

There’s quite a dichotomy there. The ‘good girl/golden child’ in public and the ‘bad girl/black sheep’ (‘/’ in Keli’s words) in ‘private’. Must’ve been quite an effort not to let the public mask slip, although it was reportedly lubricated with copious amounts of alcohol.

 

[JLZ]

There’s quite a dichotomy there. The ‘good girl/golden child’ in public and the ‘bad girl’ (‘*****/’ in Keli’s words) in ‘private’. Must’ve been quite an effort not to let the public mask slip, although it was reportedly lubricated with copious amounts of alcohol.

I think Keli's sexual behaviour, apart from the issue of contraception, was perfectly normal for a university-aged woman in the 1990s. Moreover, she didn't seem to be ashamed of it at the time. When Tegan was born, Keli was half-living with her parents, half-living with her boyfriend; she wasn't making a great effort to delude her parents that she was a virgin. Her friend claims that Keli talked to her about affairs such as Andrew. No secrecy there. As far as I know, nobody was calling her a . When I was sexually active in the 1980s, nobody called me a except for one or two men who thought I should have been sleeping with them as well/instead. Keli panicked about sexual shaming when facing unwelcome interrogations. It was a manipulation in my opinion.

 

[Bohemian]

I think Keli's sexual behaviour, apart from the issue of contraception, was perfectly normal for a university-aged woman in the 1990s. Moreover, she didn't seem to be ashamed of it at the time. When Tegan was born, Keli was half-living with her parents, half-living with her boyfriend; she wasn't making a great effort to delude her parents that she was a virgin. Her friend claims that Keli talked to her about affairs such as Andrew. No secrecy there. As far as I know, nobody was calling her a . When I was sexually active in the 1980s, nobody called me a except for one or two men who thought I should have been sleeping with them as well/instead. Keli panicked about sexual shaming when facing unwelcome interrogations. It was a manipulation in my opinion.

She wasn’t ashamed of her (presumably) consensual sexual activity (and, I agree, no woman should be). What she was ashamed of (and deeply ashamed of, in my humble opinion) was the ‘results’; ie, her pregnancies—regardless of their outcomes. You could term it as manipulation, although where this sense of shame originated and if it was pathological or not, is anyone’s guess.

 

[sosocurious]

I didn't catch it all but wasn't it something like, How dare you ask that, you're retraumatizing me, you're just like all the rest! Typical manipulator-speak, and absurd considering she's asked Caro to investigate, Caro is doing her best for her.

Something like that JLZ.
Her way.
I don't want to be forced there Caro. I did it of my own bat.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

yes sure is.
curiosity your knowledge is good
Occam's razor is applied liberally around websleuths lol it stands the test of time!

Thank you for the compliment k-mac.

I wasn’t thinking of Tegan’s gestation in relation to the totality of Keli’s full-term pregnancies/adoptions, rather I am trying to weigh up what is the simplest explanation for Tegan’s disappearance, ie; Keli abandoning/murdering Tegan or Keli putting her up for illegal adoption. To me, at least, a lot more steps have to be taken to ‘believe’ Keli’s story about Andrew Morris/Norris, his partner and his mother adopting Tegan than if Keli simply walked out of the hospital and abandoning/killing Tegan and, possibly, disposing of her remains.

As for Keli being reckless with the truth about who Tegan’s biological father was—that’s entirely possible, given that she seems to be an impulsive and compulsive liar.

For me, there is less steps to assume that the Andrew Morris/Norris, Mel and mother situation is a half truth and not exactly as portrayed by Keli than to take the steps to establish all the elements of murder without any evidence, other than Tegan cannot be found. Her story of her affair with "Andrew" has so many holes that it doesn't appear to be true, but if it is based on a fraud, maybe that explains that and those holes have a reasonable explanation based on the covering up of that fraud.(?!)

Maybe Keli didn't really know too much about the "adoptive" parents which she is too ashamed to admit, and which is why she can't give enough evidence for them to be identified. She always seems to want to paint herself in the most positive light, which is why she speaks half truths and doesn't want to admit she had anything to do with any wrong doing.

Tegan might have been registered as a home birth through a dodgy GP. Tegan could have been taken overseas - children did not need separate passports in 1996. Children were endorsed on an adult passport, so there would be no separate record of a baby travelling with an adult when searching the records. I also wonder what the requirements were to register a child in an overseas embassy. Maybe the adoptive parents quickly took her overseas and then "Tegan" was registered as an overseas birth at an Australian embassy overseas to come back with a new identity and a new birth place. This might explain why no search of the birth registry will ever turn up "Tegan". "Tegan" and her parents might have moved interstate or overseas to disguise the fact that they are in fact not her biological parents and have been living a lie ever since, and hence they have no motivation to come forward or if they are overseas, they may be unaware of all the fuss back in Australia. Just because someone cannot be found, does not mean they are deceased. There are estimated to be thousands of unregistered children living in Australia at any one time.

The big problem I have with Keli going through this case all again is that if she really was guilty of murder would she really be subjecting her family, her daughter and friends to going through all of this scrutiny again through the media and through social media. Wouldn't she just cop it on the chin and stay quiet because she is exactly where she deserves to be?!!!

 

[k-mac]

Thank you for the compliment k-mac.



For me, there is less steps to assume that the Andrew Morris/Norris, Mel and mother situation is a half truth and not exactly as portrayed by Keli than to take the steps to establish all the elements of murder without any evidence, other than Tegan cannot be found. Her story of her affair with "Andrew" has so many holes that it doesn't appear to be true, but if it is based on a fraud, maybe that explains that and those holes have a reasonable explanation based on the covering up of that fraud.(?!)

Maybe Keli didn't really know too much about the "adoptive" parents which she is too ashamed to admit, and which is why she can't give enough evidence for them to be identified. She always seems to want to paint herself in the most positive light, which is why she speaks half truths and doesn't want to admit she had anything to do with any wrong doing.

Tegan might have been registered as a home birth through a dodgy GP. Tegan could have been taken overseas - children did not need separate passports in 1996. Children were endorsed on an adult passport, so there would be no separate record of a baby travelling with an adult when searching the records. I also wonder what the requirements were to register a child in an overseas embassy. Maybe the adoptive parents quickly took her overseas and then "Tegan" was registered as an overseas birth at an Australian embassy overseas to come back with a new identity and a new birth place. This might explain why no search of the birth registry will ever turn up "Tegan". "Tegan" and her parents might have moved interstate or overseas to disguise the fact that they are in fact not her biological parents and have been living a lie ever since, and hence they have no motivation to come forward or if they are overseas, they may be unaware of all the fuss back in Australia. Just because someone cannot be found, does not mean they are deceased. There are estimated to be thousands of unregistered children living in Australia at any one time.

The big problem I have with Keli going through this case all again is that if she really was guilty of murder would she really be subjecting her family, her daughter and friends to going through all of this scrutiny again through the media and through social media. Wouldn't she just cop it on the chin and stay quiet because she is exactly where she deserves to be?!!!

denial is a powerful tool!
she has to live with herself after all.

 

[JLZ]

My problem isn't so much the complexity, having to assume or believe heaps of stuff I don't actually have evidence for. It's that an explanation that includes, "and by the way, I'm a liar, and any part of this might be false for psychological reasons, but the main point is that I'm innocent, and you believe me because you're a good person, right?" is practically unfalsifiable. Disprove any part, and the story shifts, but that's supposed to be OK because Keli's a liar. I need a story that can be tested, not one that's allowed to adapt to the inconvenient result of any investigation. (She's a liar, she's not insane, she's capable of telling the truth.)

 

[The Observer]

Have to agree Bo.
We did not hear much from Keli for years.What little we have recently heard still leaves that one question unanswered. Where is Tegan?

*snipped by me
We haven't heard much about Keli but Keli hasn't stopped reaching out to people for attention for her case. She has had forensic anthropologist and criminologist Dr Xanthe Mallet looking into her case for 2 odd years trying to get her a legal review, and obviously, the RMIT innocence team. As we know the wheels of justice move slow and there's been no forward movement with the Innocence Project from a legal perspective, which is why I think she thought going to Caro (whom she still thought was on Four Corners) with the angle of finding Tegan would put the necessary pressure on the system, or push for, a speedy review of her conviction.

Welcome Curiositykilledthecat!

My doubt about the illegal adoption scenario is, how could the punishment be worse than 18 years in jail, as a convicted murderer? If she is that irrational, no one can help her.

I thought the illegal adoption/sale of baby was a viable theory but kept coming back to this exact thing, she could've admitted to illegal adoption on the immunity deal she was offered. Unless she is so pathologically lost in her own lies.

I think the Exposed show would have been completely different (for the better) had ABC been given permission to interview and record Keli in the prison. I think the sporatic calls and 6min time constraints allowed Keli to get away with not answering any real confronting questions. Though on the other hand I am very glad she wasn't granted special treatment and camera time.

Another interesting thing with the case is the fabricated fathers..
'Aaron Williams' the fabricated biological father of baby 3. The one she claimed was a London 'banker'.. Worked for 'Barclays'. Andrew Morris/Norris worked in 'banking or finance' in the city.
Even Duncan Gillies she kept referring to as 'professional footballer'. They were all made out to be 'someones' like she was desired by or only with successful men.

 

[sunnybree]

I also think that surely if this was an illegal adoption, Keli would have owned up by now. Illegal adoption has a far lesser penalty than murder and a sympathetic judge would have given her a slap on the wrist i.e. poor scared young mum. I’m not sure I can believe a scenario where Keli is threatened into silence by threat of harm. It’s less believable than the Morris/Norris story (to me anyway, but I can also see why others might believe it).

There were, according to Nice Girl, some discrepancies between the Morris and Norris versions:

Morris version:

* About 9 or so years older than Keli
* living with Mel in Balmain 95-96
* tall, tanned, well-built blond banker who went to Sydney uni
* made a plan when fell pregnant (no mention of animosity)
* visited by Andrew, Mel, and Andrew’s mother
* said Andrew drove her to Duncan’s house
* saw Tegan several times over 3-4 months
* no friends knew Andrew
* had drinks with Andrew for his 30th birthday in July or August 96


Norris version:
* said Andrew reacted angrily re the pregnancy, called her a , said she was trying to trap him... but agreed to take the baby
* said that she had no contact again with Andrew until the hospital, when asked about the birthday drinks as per the Morris statement, Keli said they were both present at the pub at the same time but weren’t together
* said her friend Lisa knew him but she had lost contact with Lisa (both things were untrue)
* said only Andrew visited but Mel and mum were present at the handover
* Andrew did not drive her home

Keli’s explanation for the discrepancies is that she felt ashamed of Andrew’s behaviour towards her. I am more cynical though and I speculate that Keli was trying to make her story more sympathetic, poor me etc. she also told Detective Gaut in the Norris story that she “nearly died” during Tegan’s birth. She did lose a bit of blood but was certainly no where near death. I also wonder if the claims that her parents would be angry were a bid for sympathy as well, trying to get Gaut to feel sorry for her? Her parents might have been a bit distant and the conversation might be unpleasant but they did not abandon her during her final pregnancy, which was also conceived before marriage, far from it, and have even stuck by her through a murder conviction.

I still lean towards Keli abandoning Tegan somewhere with the vague idea of “she’ll be found and adopted but I won’t have to be involved this time” but Tegan was not found and died due to exposure.

 

[Via Marple]

I wasn't aware of what Keli had been doing or who she had contacted from jail, before this ABC investigation. So I found this in Women's Weekly lol

Keli Lane's life behind bars: What happened to baby Tegan?

It was published in 2016.
One of the interesting bits:

Dr Hemming said the only hope Keli now has of avoiding serving the remaining years of her sentence is if she applied to the NSW Governor for a pardon, for which she or her legal team would need to produce “fresh and compelling evidence” not already heard in her trial. “And in Keli’s case,” says Dr Hemming. “That means either Andrew Norris coming forward or Tegan suddenly appearing. Or if she changes her story.”