Australia Australia - Tegan Lane, 2 days old, Sydney, 14 Sept 1996 *K. Lane guilty*

[Bohemian]

I understand where you are coming from. Just out of interest have any of these superficially charming but deceitful personalities been charged with murder?

My mother in law likely has a personality disorder. She does hurtful things, can't see it, plays the victim, twists things to suit her warped perception but she is no murderer.

Keli was the one instructing her legal representation. Counsel can only act on instructions. Solicitors can advise clients but clients still have the final call. Keli wanted this over with. She deals with things impulsively. She may have given her legal representation the wrong instructions. She really didn't understand what she was up against. I wouldn't be too quick to condemn her legal representation as incompetent.

Of course as you say these awful things happen. I don't think Dr Anne Buist would risk her reputation by saying it doesn't fit in Keli's case.

I’m not aware that any of those people I speak of have killed a human being but, then again, maybe because they haven’t had the means, motive and opportunity to do so.

So Keli could have advised her counsel that she didn’t want a mistrial? It would have given the defence more of a chance to get up to speed with the supposed barrage of evidence being foisted on them by the prosecution if there was the opportunity for a retrial. I don’t understand how, as the daughter of a former police officer, Keli was quite so naive as to the workings of the law, on both sides of the aisle.

Experts are erudite but not infallible.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

Don't know. Just going of what I read.
I guess there was no doubt Tegan had been born - when, where and how - all known.
The mothers name, age, address, occupation all known. Tegan had been recorded on Medicare records by her mother. She was still carrying the card in her wallet.
Father - Well I guess imo, it is who ever the mother says it is. Unless dna proves otherwise.

Nice Girl: The story of Keli Lane and her missing baby Tegan

https://books.google.com.au/books?isbn=0731814975
Rachael Jane Chin - 2011 - ‎True Crime
The story of Keli Lane and her missing baby Tegan Rachael Jane Chin ... There wasn't even a birth certificate for Tegan until Abernethy ordered one for her in 2005...

Yes, 100% correct that the father is who the mother says it is until DNA proves otherwise. It causes heaps of heartache too where there are doubts.

There actually does not need to be a father on the birth certificate for it to be registered. It might just say unknown. I think this is more likely in this case.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

I don't suppose anyone remembers reading this back in 2016?
I'm not saying I believe her either...

Keli Lane’s jailmate reveals ‘I know where baby Tegan is’

Yes, I remember that. Seeking her 15 minutes of fame, I think. I don't believe it.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

I’m not aware that any of those people I speak of have killed a human being but, then again, maybe because they haven’t had the means, motive and opportunity to do so.

So Keli could have advised her counsel that she didn’t want a mistrial? It would have given the defence more of a chance to get up to speed with the supposed barrage of evidence being foisted on them by the prosecution if there was the opportunity for a retrial. I don’t understand how, as the daughter of a former police officer, Keli was quite so naive as to the workings of the law, on both sides of the aisle.

Experts are erudite but not infallible.

Yes, true about the experts.

Yes, Keli could have told her counsel that she didn't want a mistrial. I think that is exactly what she said in the Exposed Program as to what she did. She had the opportunity but wanted this all over with. I think she was naïve. Look at her behaviour in the police interviews. How can a daughter of a cop be so naïve to think she doesn't need any assistance and can represent herself during those interviews? Surely she understands the serious of getting in trouble with the cops!!!

 

[JLZ]

BBM. I think we'd know a lot more and/or possibly not even be discussing her today had she taken the stand.

I meant Natalie; did you?

As to Keli . . . defence counsel very rarely recommend clients to take the stand and in a circumstantial case with a proven liar, it would have been absolutely foolhardy. I think I've heard Keli complain that she ought to have done so. Just garbage.

 

[Bohemian]

Yes, true about the experts.

Yes, Keli could have told her counsel that she didn't want a mistrial. I think that is exactly what she said in the Exposed Program as to what she did. She had the opportunity but wanted this all over with. I think she was naïve. Look at her behaviour in the police interviews. How can a daughter of a cop be so naïve to think she doesn't need any assistance and can represent herself during those interviews? Surely she understands the serious of getting in trouble with the cops!!!

I think she could have thought she may have been a good enough storyteller to mollify investigators.

Also, were a couple of those interviews conducted before her family knew about Tegan?

 

[JLZ]

Yes, true about the experts.

Yes, Keli could have told her counsel that she didn't want a mistrial. I think that is exactly what she said in the Exposed Program as to what she did. She had the opportunity but wanted this all over with. I think she was naïve. Look at her behaviour in the police interviews. How can a daughter of a cop be so naïve to think she doesn't need any assistance and can represent herself during those interviews? Surely she understands the serious of getting in trouble with the cops!!!

Either I missed it or I completely forget. What would have been the ground for requesting a mistrial?

Edit: Thanks CKC, I just saw your post #397.

 

[Morrisa]

I think she could have thought she may have been a good enough storyteller to mollify investigators.

Also, were a couple of those interviews conducted before her family knew about Tegan?

I thought all of the police interviews were conducted without her parents knowing anything?

 

[Bohemian]

I thought all of the police interviews were conducted without her parents knowing anything?

I’m trying to remember. Maybe Keli was unrepresented at the interviews by choice.

 

[Morrisa]

I’m trying to remember. Maybe Keli was unrepresented at the interviews by choice.

One of the early interviews the policeman states to the tape that she has been offered representation but has declined...99%sure I'd have to go back and check.

 

[The Observer]

I meant Natalie; did you?

As to Keli . . . defence counsel very rarely recommend clients to take the stand and in a circumstantial case with a proven liar, it would have been absolutely foolhardy. I think I've heard Keli complain that she ought to have done so. Just garbage.

Oh right oops, my apologies. Natalie was switched out for Andrew Morris that 'beach sex' guy.

Oh absolutely no counsel likes their client to take the stand and that's why I made the comment it'd all been done and dusted had she have. IMO.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

I think she could have thought she may have been a good enough storyteller to mollify investigators.

Also, were a couple of those interviews conducted before her family knew about Tegan?

I thought all of the police interviews were conducted without her parents knowing anything?

I’m trying to remember. Maybe Keli was unrepresented at the interviews by choice.

One of the early interviews the policeman states to the tape that she has been offered representation but has declined...99%sure I'd have to go back and check.

Yes, all conducted before her parents knew about Tegan. But she would have been advised she could be represented and she chose not too. She admitted in Exposed that she totally did not understand the serious of the situation and initially thought the police were inquiring into the custody arrangements she had with Andrew for Tegan's care.

 

[The Observer]

Something that caught my eye:

View attachment 152789
Source:
Two decades on, Keli Lane hopes this man could prove her innocence

Not ‘I need to know Tegan is alive, that she’s safe, healthy and loved’, but she/Andrew, etc, need to come forward for Keli’s family.

Yeah. It's like the excerpt I posted (post #365) about her comments made to Peter, the husband, when the house was bugged. I get things are said in anger and such but showed a completely different side to the one being portrayed. Also people keep saying "oh but she breastfed" yes and in 1995, in NSW, hospitals didn't provide baby formula and such so unless she planned on providing formula for babies she was giving up for adoption she had no choice but to breastfeed.

 

[The Observer]

Have they not asked her or does she not remember?

Source: Caro Meldrum-Hanna

 

[JLZ]

Yeah. It's like the excerpt I posted (post #365) about her comments made to Peter, the husband, when the house was bugged. I get things are said in anger and such but showed a completely different side to the one being portrayed. Also people keep saying "oh but she breastfed" yes and in 1995, in NSW, hospitals didn't provide baby formula and such so unless she planned on providing formula for babies she was giving up for adoption she had no choice but to breastfeed.

They must have some provision for when mothers are unable to breastfeed, or for when the mother dies. However, fair point, they probably didn't give her a choice, and she wouldn't have wanted to make herself conspicuous rejecting the child or give grounds for being detained longer.

 

[JLZ]

Have they not asked her or does she not remember?

Source: Caro Meldrum-Hanna

"Have you considered using a psychic?" -- ". . . We are considering what is appropriate."

And this is the ABC.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

Have they not asked her or does she not remember?

Source: Caro Meldrum-Hanna

Yes, that's a strange one.

In "The Child who never was" by Allison Langdon it was accepted that she drove herself there and back. Some people would say she changed her story to avoid her car being forensically examined.

 

[JLZ]

Oh right oops, my apologies. Natalie was switched out for Andrew Morris that 'beach sex' guy.

Oh absolutely no counsel likes their client to take the stand and that's why I made the comment it'd all been done and dusted had she have. IMO.

If she'd given evidence, now she'd be complaining about that. She didn't understand the seriousness of it. That you shouldn't lie in a court, or to the police.

 

[JLZ]

Oh right oops, my apologies. Natalie was switched out for Andrew Morris that 'beach sex' guy.

Oh absolutely no counsel likes their client to take the stand and that's why I made the comment it'd all been done and dusted had she have. IMO.

I know. But surely the defence didn't drop a credible witness to avoid a guy who wasn't sure he'd ever met Keli. At most he was of prejudicial value, implying that Keli got around--with so many men that even the men themselves lost track of who they were! I mean, the defence would argue that he shouldn't be allowed as a witness, but if the judge decided otherwise, was it a big deal? I conclude that Natalie wasn't expected to be of much help, and could prove a liability.

 

[Spooky7]

From the inquest:

"Nevertheless, she gets little sense out of Juan Ramirez, a water polo associate of Lane who rented a room at Duncan Gillies' house in suburban Gladesville. When Gaut interviewed him in the course of the investigation, Ramirez said Gillies had once told him that Lane was pregnant and had gone away. He also recalled Gillies talking of the need to keep this from her parents. But by the time Ramirez takes the stand, he isn't sure what Gillies said - in fact, he cannot be certain the conversation took place at all. The more he is questioned, the more vague he becomes. "We need to know the truth," presses Becroft. "I need you to be honest with me." But it's no good. Ramirez's memory has gone hazy. It's as if he has lost interest in the whole thing."

Keli Lane's secrets and lies

Do you have a link the the inquest transcript? I couldn’t find it.