Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #801
Weekend Australian reports that when searches began, the guy at the abandoned campsite was hiding from the searchers and then suddenly abandoned the site. he may be the link which is needed.
Thanks, Certus1 :)

I was referring to a different photo being discussed not the actual beach photo. The beach sunrise photo has been shared and discussed on the LFTH Facebook page.

I was certainly hopeful when this surfaced wondering if they may have seen something that morning. Especially any unearthed sand or evidence of parties, pair of shoes left on the beach etc.
Hi Musso, I meant the photo that was referred to in Brisbane with the backs of three people, and one which looked like Theo. It was posted by the same person on Instagram who posted the sunrise phot at Tallow. The Brisbane photo was taken several days before Theo went to Byron. In the podcast it was mentioned that they spoke to someone who was there at sunrise and the that person said that they were accompanied by 2 others, but was not Theo and everything appeared Ok when they were there at sunrise. So it was not Theo in that photo and actually, I looked at it and do not think it was Theo either. Posture, stance, and hair way too long.
 
  • #802
Weekend Australian reports that when searches began, the guy at the abandoned campsite was hiding from the searchers and then suddenly abandoned the site. he may be the link which is needed.

I agree, I can understand that some in these illegal campsites (and from many reports of mental illness in some of the homeless people in the area) that some live in these camps to get away from people and keep to themselves. So if a whole bunch people started impacting on the area all of a sudden day after day I can understand why they may have left.

The fact that Theo walked so close to this campsite on that path, I just cannot see how either Theo or the person at the camp would not have seen each other.

Maybe Theo did see them and became worried and went into the bush at Cosy corner?

I truly hope that this person comes forward to assist as you said they may just be the link that is needed and have more information on Theo that night or have seen him and maybe anyone he could have been with.
 
  • #803
NoCookies | The Australian

The Lighthouse podcast: abandoned camp raises questions on vanished backpacker

Theo emerged just before midnight into an area where there is a small worn path to the beach.

The location is beside a well-established illegal campsite next to the sand dunes, where a taut tarp is tied to trees to provide shelter

“I don’t understand how (Theo) would go through all of that and know where to come out on this tiny worn path to the beach if he wasn’t with somebody that knew the area,” said Byron local Sheri D’Rosario.

The location of the campsite has also sparked speculation among Byron searchers that Theo could have been accompanying whoever stayed at the camp.

I notice that the article does not mention the younger homeless guy who they spoke with earlier in the 4th podcast. (The one who kept his place neat, but left rubbish strewn around the outside to 'keep people away'.) Could they be the same person? Or is there a 3rd homeless person from that area .. Tommy, the younger guy, and someone else?
One would think that Tommy might know.

From the end of the podcast .... "He just hid, he didn't want to be approached, basically. At that point we weren't as confident as we are now. He was tall, lean, bushy sort of a hair, I couldn't tell if it was tied up around here in a bin(?)"

I have sometimes wondered if Theo disappeared because someone wanted his sneakers, his clothes, his belongings. Though at 180cm/5'9", Theo is not particularly tall.
 
Last edited:
  • #804
Update timeline Theo after leaving CM:
- 23:07 he exited CM
- 23:08 he stops briefly in Kingsley
- 23:08 ->11:13 walks to the end of Tennyson
- 23:13 stops for 7 minutes
- 23:21 left the slab at the end of Tennyson and went to Massinger Street at 6km/hr
- then walked up hill from Massinger Str, to Milne St. at 4,5 km/hr
- 23: 30 reaches Milne Str.
- then enters Milne track and reaches T-junction in 5 minutes at 7,5km/hr
- then walks for 8 minutes at a little more than 4 km/hr
- stears around Tommy's invisible camp site
- location where Theo's cap was found = between Tommy's camp site and the beach*
- 23:48 reaches the beach through a tiny path at a gully with an abandoned camp site
- Theo looks up WU again and walks for 8 minutes to CC at 6km/hr
- 23:56 (+/-) walks up hill and stops for 5,5 minutes in a hidden clearing at about 20m from the sand
- 00:03 Theo / Theo's phone goes back to the beach in less than 2 minutes

- 00:05 GPS tracing stops
- but the phone continued sending signals till the afternoon of June 1st
- 00:20 sends Messenger message to friend Lou in French about U2 Tour
- 00:23 watches YouTube for 1 minute and 50 seconds
- 00:55 sends WA message
- 00:56 sends WA message
- +/- 02:00 - +/- 06:00 phone in 'sleep' mode
- +/- 04:00 moon rises and there is moonlight
- +/- 06:00 phone exits 'sleep' mode (what triggered this?)
- +/- 13:00 of June 1st, last ping, originating from Cape Byron, not from CC

Sources: Podcasts. In red: updates from Podcast#4.
*
In Podcast#4 it was said: 'Only the family and police would have been able to plant the cap'.
I'd like to ad: only family and police, and ..... Theo's companion if he had one.

Excellent timeline (and update). Thanks, Chiatos. This is such a useful reference tool. :)
 
  • #805
Or this is the person Theo met at Tennyson and followed him down the path he took, right to the guys camp? This guy would know that exact route and how to avoid tommy's campsite. He would probably be the only one who knew of that really narrow path that takes you right to his abandoned campsite - likely he actually carved out that narrow path by walking it many times.
 
  • #806
It could be this person Theo met at Tennyson? He would know exactly how to avoid Tommy's campsite and the route that was taken - that's the route he would take to get to his own campsite by the beach. That narrow path that goes to his now abandoned campsite, he may well have been the only one who knew this narrow path - perhaps carved it out himself just by walking it many times. Just too much of a coincidence that Theo would have gone so close to Tommy's campsite, doubled back and stumbled upon a narrow path that takes you right up to this other guys campsite. I understand that they may not want intrusion. But he was watching them and as soon as they saw him he hid behind trees etc. That is suspicious. Others with mental issues who did not want to see or talk to people came forward and talked off camera and recording. This guy just suddenly takes off and leaves behind his very neat campsite and his tightly stretches nice new looking shelter?
 
  • #807
I notice that the article is does not mention the younger homeless guy who they spoke with earlier in the 4th podcast. (The one who kept his place neat, but left rubbish strewn around the outside to 'keep people away'.) Could they be the same person? Or is there a 3rd homeless person from that area .. Tommy, the younger guy, and someone else?
One would think that Tommy might know.

From the end of the podcast .... "He just hid, he didn't want to be approached, basically. At that point we weren't as confident as we are now. He was tall, lean, bushy sort of a hair, I couldn't tell if it was tied up around here in a bin(?)"

I have sometimes wondered if Theo disappeared because someone wanted his sneakers, his clothes, his belongings. Though at 180cm/5'9", Theo is not particularly tall.

Sometimes I just sit back and wonder.....

What happened to Theo.

He just vanished, where is he?

Why?

I will have to listen to the podcast again regarding the"other homeless guy" question

Most homeless people know everything going on around them when they are settled long enough in the same spot. I wonder if Tommy knew anyone else staying in that area at the time.
 
  • #808
Excellent timeline (and update). Thanks, Chiatos. This is such a useful reference tool. :)
Yes was an excellent timeline. I began to do one but you saved me the trouble Chiatos (and likely a better job of it too)!
 
  • #809
I notice that the article does not mention the younger homeless guy who they spoke with earlier in the 4th podcast. (The one who kept his place neat, but left rubbish strewn around the outside to 'keep people away'.) Could they be the same person? Or is there a 3rd homeless person from that area .. Tommy, the younger guy, and someone else?
One would think that Tommy might know.

From the end of the podcast .... "He just hid, he didn't want to be approached, basically. At that point we weren't as confident as we are now. He was tall, lean, bushy sort of a hair, I couldn't tell if it was tied up around here in a bin(?)"

I have sometimes wondered if Theo disappeared because someone wanted his sneakers, his clothes, his belongings. Though at 180cm/5'9", Theo is not particularly tall.
I think the one they spoke to was another young camper - the one who left rubbish around the campsite but kept his space clean. Tommy is a second person, and the third one is the one they never spoke to who kept hiding from them then suddenly abandoned the camp. So there were three of them.
 
  • #810
Spot on I wanted to say this too about the hat. We cannot be 100 % sure either about that it was Theo with his phone either, even if all signs point to it. Paranoid people can come up with elaborate plans. If something happened to Theo at Tennyson and someone else had his phone it would be the perfect spot to walk it to, to Cosy Corner to make it look like Theo had an accident there, just a week earlier a boy fell off the cliff there it was all through the news. Googling maps en route knowing someone will look at his mobile data later, so make it appear like Theo is lost. If his phone was open whoever possibly took his phone would see the map. Few brief French replies at Cosy Corner. Yes looks like Theo on the phone, is most likely. But is it impossible somebody else could be with it. No. It is not impossible. Cap magically appears after the same exact place has already been searched. Could it have been missed? Yes. Could it have been planted there later to confirm to anyone questioning Theo's route that Theo did walk this way towards the water, Cosy Corner dangerous cliff. Yes. Because it cannot be ruled out. Stranger things have happened. Killers have used victim's phones to pretend to be them many a time and planted "evidence" to mislead. As much as I don't think this happened, is unlikely I don't think it should be ruled out unless there is solid proof. And yes as you say Theo's companion if he had one also knew the route, so could have put hat there. I find it interesting the hat was found the very next day after the indigenous ceremony on the beach asking for answers. Next day a clue is presented, a big clue. There are sick people out there and if someone did something to Theo they are sick, brain does not work like a normal well adjusted person. We cannot expect them to think like a normal person. They very well could be, highly likely they are, following the pages and going on's. Saw the indigenous ceremony looking for clues, answers was happening, and bingo next day the hat is there in a previously searched area, remember the search team already had the maps so yes would have searched his exact route previously and yet hat is found later on this exact route, exact to 3 meters. Search team again expresses their surprise in the podcast, how could this hat be possibly missed. So if planted maybe whoever ties in could be playing a sick game with everyone, feeling very clever. If phone was used to mislead, then the hat planted then they are doing a good job of it. We know it was Theo on his phone on Kingsley St as there is footage. He looked up Wake Up a minute or so later. Yes looks almost sure it was Theo on his phone all the way to Cosy but not everything is always as it seems. Cannot be 100% sure on this.
Excellent thoughts. I agree. The running and opposite turns taken via Theo’s google movements seems very odd and his phone could have possibly been stolen and the perp ran off with it. Who’s to say that there were a group of people with him and took him from the sports field while others ran off with his phone. And it’s possible that the hat could have been thrown where it was found to make it look like Theo had been in that particular area to throw off the investigation. so many scenarios could have happened. However, His texts sent just after his phone stopped pinging by Cosy corner, seemed casual and normal and there was no sign of concern coming from him. Such a mystery
 
  • #811
Please read the following message from Tricia:

Hey Friends,

This is very important. Please listen to my latest podcast, Websleuths Radio Podcast.

You can find it on Apple here and on Spotify here.


Or anywhere you can find true crime podcasts.

I cannot stress enough how important it is to Websleuths and our podcast for you to listen and ask your friends to listen as well. If Websleuths is going to continue (forum and podcast) we need you to listen to Websleuths Radio Podcast.

We need you to listen, ask your friends to listen and ask their friends to listen. Please get the word out. There is a new podcast in town and it is one you do not want to miss.

This week Heather Robinson Ramos. As a baby, Heather's mom was killed by serial killer John Robinson. Robinson then "adopted" baby Heather to his brother and his wife.

Also, please listen to the new podcast called Detective Trapp. To help Websleuths check out a little taste of this podcast.

Detective Trapp on Apple Podcasts

Thank you to everyone.

Tricia
Owner, Websleuths
 
  • #812
I notice that the article does not mention the younger homeless guy who they spoke with earlier in the 4th podcast. (The one who kept his place neat, but left rubbish strewn around the outside to 'keep people away'.) Could they be the same person? Or is there a 3rd homeless person from that area .. Tommy, the younger guy, and someone else?
One would think that Tommy might know.
There's more than three. Plus there's those who just camp overnight or stay in vans. You get that all along the coast up this way.
The young guy mentioned was in a different location. I think if he was the same person it would be known by his appearance.
 
  • #813
It could be this person Theo met at Tennyson? He would know exactly how to avoid Tommy's campsite and the route that was taken - that's the route he would take to get to his own campsite by the beach. That narrow path that goes to his now abandoned campsite, he may well have been the only one who knew this narrow path - perhaps carved it out himself just by walking it many times. Just too much of a coincidence that Theo would have gone so close to Tommy's campsite, doubled back and stumbled upon a narrow path that takes you right up to this other guys campsite. I understand that they may not want intrusion. But he was watching them and as soon as they saw him he hid behind trees etc. That is suspicious. Others with mental issues who did not want to see or talk to people came forward and talked off camera and recording. This guy just suddenly takes off and leaves behind his very neat campsite and his tightly stretches nice new-looking shelter?

The one thing I dont remember the family saying or confirming is if they think that Theo would just meet up with a stranger and walk off and into the bush with someone, he didn't know.

I know that they think he was with someone that night, but do they think he would intentionally just walk off with an unknown person and into unknown dark terrain, was it in his character to trust people he had just met?

They have mentioned that he was a sensible kid, very intelligent.

I would love to hear if they think that he would just meet up with someone he didn't know (or very well know) and go into thick bush alone with this person (or persons).

Unless as we all wonder, his drink was spiked by either that person (s) and he was not his usual self.

I find the path that he took puzzling,

Much more to it IMO
 
  • #814
There's more than three. Plus there's those who just camp overnight or stay in vans. You get that all along the coast up this way.
The young guy mentioned was in a different location. I think if he was the same person it would be known by his appearance.
Yes correct
 
  • #815
The one thing I dont remember the family saying or confirming is if they think that Theo would just meet up with a stranger and walk off and into the bush with someone, he didn't know.

I know that they think he was with someone that night, but do they think he would intentionally just walk off with an unknown person and into unknown dark terrain, was it in his character to trust people he had just met?

They have mentioned that he was a sensible kid, very intelligent.

I would love to hear if they think that he would just meet up with someone he didn't know (or very well know) and go into thick bush alone with this person (or persons).

Unless as we all wonder, his drink was spiked by either that person (s) and he was not his usual self.

I find the path that he took puzzling,

Much more to it IMO

I find it somewhat believable that Theo could have stopped to smoke a joint with someone who offered - and not usually partaking of this he could have become paranoid (as a very small percentage of people are known to do).
This was one theory offered by a local in podcast #4.

However, the thing that keeps drawing me away from drug (of any kind) ingestion - or, at least, draws me away from any related paranoia - is that Theo seemed consistently astute enough to keep his eye on where he was in relation to Wake Up hostel. That, to me, is the sensible side still showing through.

imo
 
  • #816
I find it somewhat believable that Theo could have stopped to smoke a joint with someone who offered - and not usually partaking of this he could have become paranoid (as a very small percentage of people are known to do).
This was one theory offered by a local in podcast #4.

However, the thing that keeps drawing me away from drug (of any kind) ingestion - or, at least, draws me away from any related paranoia - is that Theo seemed consistently astute enough to keep his eye on where he was in relation to Wake Up hostel. That, to me, is the sensible side still showing through.

imo

Good point SA, shows he was still in a good mind to remember where he eventually wanted to head to
 
  • #817
- 23:48 reaches the beach through a tiny path at a gully with an abandoned camp site
- Theo looks up WU again and walks for 8 minutes to CC at 6km/hr
- 23:56 (+/-) walks up hill and stops for 5,5 minutes in a hidden clearing at about 20m from the sand

- 00:03 Theo / Theo's phone goes back to the beach in less than 2 minutes
.

Is it looking like he immediately went up the hill upon getting to CC? No sit, pause, wait, then climb?

23.48pm reaches Tallow beach
23.56pm gets to Cosy Corner & goes up hill
00.03am back down to Cosy Corner

This movement is consistent with (half of) the “V” path at the end of the original map released.

The phone tracking goes off at some point here. I’m wondering if he ventured around to the ocean side completing the V ending shown. He could have gone straight to the ocean side of Cosy when he got down from spiky hill. He may have been there when texting. It might come up in the next podcast.
 

Attachments

  • 77A0C378-6458-4301-AB7D-8D80FF4FF6E0.jpeg
    77A0C378-6458-4301-AB7D-8D80FF4FF6E0.jpeg
    70.6 KB · Views: 12
  • #818
“The campsite is covered by a taut tarp. It’s tied in place with rope that’s in good condition.”
Podcast 4, 25:25.

Is that a regular tarp in the pic? It looks like it has letters printed on, it but it could just be leaves. It could’ve been new and purchased in town, and I wonder if they checked it out well last June?
 

Attachments

  • AF186E17-BE2F-4A67-A72D-7A99D0217D62.jpeg
    AF186E17-BE2F-4A67-A72D-7A99D0217D62.jpeg
    213.4 KB · Views: 44
  • #819
Is it looking like he immediately went up the hill upon getting to CC? No sit, pause, wait, then climb?

23.48pm reaches Tallow beach
23.56pm gets to Cosy Corner & goes up hill
00.03am back down to Cosy Corner

This movement is consistent with (half of) the “V” path at the end of the original map released.

The phone tracking goes off at some point here. I’m wondering if he ventured around to the ocean side completing the V ending shown. He could have gone straight to the ocean side of Cosy when he got down from spiky hill. He may have been there when texting. It might come up in the next podcast.
Yes Theo's father, I think podcast 3, said that when he got down the hill he turned off Google tracking. This is a major battery saver.
 
  • #820
“The campsite is covered by a taut tarp. It’s tied in place with rope that’s in good condition.”
Podcast 4, 25:25.

Is that a regular tarp in the pic? It looks like it has letters printed on, it but it could just be leaves. It could’ve been new and purchased in town, and I wonder if they checked it out well last June?
In the podcast one of the volunteers comment words to the effect of they now think they should have paid more attention to this site - as the guy took off after hiding form them in the initial search of the path he walked. So it is unlikely that they searched that spot thoroughly back then, especially because the guy was still residing there. It is a bit odd that he left a perfectly good, looks like new, tarp behind, just took personal belongings.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
131
Guests online
2,602
Total visitors
2,733

Forum statistics

Threads
632,149
Messages
18,622,682
Members
243,034
Latest member
RepresentingTheLBC
Back
Top