Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[mishachilli]

I find it somewhat believable that Theo could have stopped to smoke a joint with someone who offered - and not usually partaking of this he could have become paranoid (as a very small percentage of people are known to do).
This was one theory offered by a local in podcast #4.

However, the thing that keeps drawing me away from drug (of any kind) ingestion - or, at least, draws me away from any related paranoia - is that Theo seemed consistently astute enough to keep his eye on where he was in relation to Wake Up hostel. That, to me, is the sensible side still showing through.

imo

Yeah great point. IMO that pretty much rules out disorientation and the theory that his drink was spiked with a substance that caused him to behave the way his phone leads us to believe that he did.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

“The campsite is covered by a taut tarp. It’s tied in place with rope that’s in good condition.”
Podcast 4, 25:25.

Is that a regular tarp in the pic? It looks like it has letters printed on, it but it could just be leaves. It could’ve been new and purchased in town, and I wonder if they checked it out well last June?

In the podcast one of the volunteers comment words to the effect of they now think they should have paid more attention to this site - as the guy took off after hiding form them in the initial search of the path he walked. So it is unlikely that they searched that spot thoroughly back then, especially because the guy was still residing there. It is a bit odd that he left a perfectly good, looks like new, tarp behind, just took personal belongings.

Yeah great point. IMO that pretty much rules out disorientation and the theory that his drink was spiked with a substance that caused him to behave the way his phone leads us to believe that he did.

Have always doubted drink spike theory for a number of reasons. Either he was drugged out or was not (but perhaps a bit drunk) - these are to me the only 2 options and always have been. Now looking more likely IMO.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

Meaning the most likely 2 scenarios.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

I still believe as previously posted that the most likely location of Theo is buried at CC. Have examined and consulted with others on so many other options, and always comes back to this. Why don't they just dig CC up and rule it in or out? When everything points you to one location, and in this case a limited area, why not do it? In other countries, that's the first thing they do with a "hot spot" of a possible homicide or death by misadventure. So either rule it in or out.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

For family members reading this, or people on their behalf, I am sorry. This Theo page was established to help to find your son (not by me of course, new to this). It's been 6 months and listening to the podcasts, I know you have accepted that after all this time he may not return. I truly hope I am wrong. But....

 

[SouthAussie]

I will have to listen to the podcast again regarding the"other homeless guy" question

Most homeless people know everything going on around them when they are settled long enough in the same spot. I wonder if Tommy knew anyone else staying in that area at the time.

Here is what was said about the other homeless guy that the podcast spoke of ... (starts around 6:40 mark).

I am wondering about him - or this 'type' of person - because I could imagine Theo stopping to speak with this kind of person. He appears 'respectable' and non-threatening.
How long has he been there? How recent is recent? Evidently long enough to realise that leaving it dirty around there keeps people from moving in. What else does he know?


David: After everything I have been told about this area, he’s not what I am expecting.
He’s young. Articulate. And well presented. Inseparable in looks from the tourists at main beach, a block away.
He says that of course he knows about Theo. He’d read about him on Facebook.
I’d love to play you his voice, but after the first episode he contacted me and asked to be left out for personal reasons. It’s related to his mental wellbeing.
All things considered, I’ve agreed.

David: I phoned Nicoletta and asked what she remembered about the meeting.

Nicoletta: “It was sort of all sticks all weaved together. It was definitely like this great little setup that he’d stumbled upon. Umm .. then he just tidied the whole thing up. And sort of made it his own. It was all, like, rubbish and old clothes. Bits and pieces just strewn around. And the outside of that area, the outside of his camp, and from memory we asked if he was going to ..umm … clean that up.
He said actually no. He’s realised that if you clean up an area in that bushland, someone is likely to, sort of, move in on it. So, it’s better off to leave that whole area really dirty and messy because it’s less likely that someone’s going to move in to be his neighbour next door.
You know, he was such a sweet guy, he was so articulate, and only recently had become homeless.
He said the he didn’t have drug or alcohol issues, but he did have mental health issues, and had only recently just moved into the bush .. umm .. and become homeless. Because he did have a car but his registration has run out and he couldn’t afford to renew that registration."

NoCookies | The Australian

 

[SouthAussie]

I still believe as previously posted that the most likely location of Theo is buried at CC. Have examined and consulted with others on so many other options, and always comes back to this. Why don't they just dig CC up and rule it in or out? When everything points you to one location, and in this case a limited area, why not do it? In other countries, that's the first thing they do with a "hot spot" of a possible homicide or death by misadventure. So either rule it in or out.

It is very probable that the police have looked for evidence of recent digging during their searches. imo

I have followed cases here where police have asked property owners to look out for 'changes' to their property landscape and recent digging - when they have been searching for a missing person over a significant land area.

From memory, the police spent a lot of time in the Cosy Corner area.

 

[BusterXP]

Yes Theo's father, I think podcast 3, said that when he got down the hill he turned off Google tracking. This is a major battery saver.

That's only been suggested that he turned GPS alone off. Power Savings Mode will turn it off.
Given the battery use and possible amount of charge left in the phone I think it entered that mode either automatically or manually.
I think Theo would still keep an eye on Wake Up if he could.

 

[BusterXP]

It is very probable that the police have looked for evidence of recent digging during their searches. imo

I have followed cases here where police have asked property owners to look out for 'changes' to their property landscape and recent digging - when they have been searching for a missing person over a significant land area.

From memory, the police spent a lot of time in the Cosy Corner area.

I agree. A video of their search showed them being meticulous and only disturbing what may have been recent on the ground. They knew what they were doing.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

Hi South Aussie, really appreciate all of your input that I have been reading, thank you. I am talking about digging up Cost Corner specifically. Not properties. It is the one area that is 100% relevant and the only 100% relevant area that needs to be dug up. Theo's whereabouts stops there in every single way. No matter what scenario (other than kidnapped, which the family appear not to be considering as a significant option) this seems to be it. That location and only that location. Dog and either confirm or discount CC so all can move on, including police who do not know as they were never given the financial resources to dig up CC. (mind you., they never asked either, so I am on the side of the family that the police were not interested. Put it down to another BP getting into trouble yet again....

 

[BusterXP]

Hi South Aussie, really appreciate all of your input that I have been reading, thank you. I am talking about digging up Cost Corner specifically. Not properties. It is the one area that is 100% relevant and the only 100% relevant area that needs to be dug up. Theo's whereabouts stops there in every single way. No matter what scenario (other than kidnapped, which the family appear not to be considering as a significant option) this seems to be it. That location and only that location. Dog and either confirm or discount CC so all can move on, including police who do not know as they were never given the financial resources to dig up CC. (mind you., they never asked either, so I am on the side of the family that the police were not interested. Put it down to another BP getting into trouble yet again....

They used non-invasive equipment (not sure what it was) to check for buried bones at the Tweed Valley Hospital site when South Sea Islanders suspected their ancestors might be buried there.
I doubt they'd dig up an area unless there was something solid to go by.

 

[SouthAussie]

Hi South Aussie, really appreciate all of your input that I have been reading, thank you. I am talking about digging up Cost Corner specifically. Not properties. It is the one area that is 100% relevant and the only 100% relevant area that needs to be dug up. Theo's whereabouts stops there in every single way. No matter what scenario (other than kidnapped, which the family appear not to be considering as a significant option) this seems to be it. That location and only that location. Dog and either confirm or discount CC so all can move on, including police who do not know as they were never given the financial resources to dig up CC. (mind you., they never asked either, so I am on the side of the family that the police were not interested. Put it down to another BP getting into trouble yet again....

Yes, I completely understood what you said ... and why.

I still firmly believe that the police have investigated Cosy Corner thoroughly. They have means of checking below the surface. And spent a lot of time specifically at Cosy Corner - they know that the trail ends there.

I am more of the opinion that Theo has ended up in the ocean. Either by being lured to a higher point, or by being taken to a higher point.


There are various scientific methods that can help locate such victims, with one of the most important being to identify variations in the surface, such as depressions or small hills, which could indicate that a body has been buried underneath. Search teams can also use specialist “cadaver dogs” to sniff for remains or geophysical methods to scan identified areas. The latter include ground penetrating radar, which uses radar pulses to image the subsurface.
http://theconversation.com/the-science-of-finding-buried-bodies-77803

 

[Deleted member 255258]

That's only been suggested that he turned GPS alone off. Power Savings Mode will turn it off.
Given the battery use and possible amount of charge left in the phone I think it entered that mode either automatically or manually.
I think Theo would still keep an eye on Wake Up if he could.

He did keep an eye out for wakeup constantly even at CC according to podcasts

 

[BusterXP]

He did keep an eye out for wakeup constantly even at CC according to podcasts

That's why I think he still would if he could. It seemed like a priority. GPS needed for his position relative to Wake Up. Although, he could estimate just on a map.
The battery, with that use and time, would have been low.

 

[SouthAussie]

That's only been suggested that he turned GPS alone off. Power Savings Mode will turn it off.
Given the battery use and possible amount of charge left in the phone I think it entered that mode either automatically or manually.
I think Theo would still keep an eye on Wake Up if he could.

Exactly. Theo was unable to keep an eye (any more) on Wake Up. imo

I also question whether he would have allowed his battery to run that low, in an unfamiliar area, if he had control over his situation. Did we ever determine if Theo had a morphie? Seems that he may not have.
Or he wasn't in control of his device when the power saver turned the GPS off.

 

[sparks030405]

Yeah great point. IMO that pretty much rules out disorientation and the theory that his drink was spiked with a substance that caused him to behave the way his phone leads us to believe that he did.

Having never taken any drugs, I accepted 1/2 a hash (cookie form) at a party a while back, plus believe drink also spiked. The paranoia escalated thinking everyone was in on an attempt to rape me, wanting/tried to escape but friends held me/locked in room hoping it would pass. I was very focused on just trying to get out of there and back home. Urine tests showed a mix of drugs, more than just what I thought would be in a hash cookie. Even when I got home (picked up by my partner), I tried to sleep with my sneakers on to make a quick escape! I can imagine Theo going through something similar, if not experienced in what to expect, plus everyone reacts differently it seems, such as the guy mentioned in the start of podcast 4

 

[mussopossum]

Here is what was said about the other homeless guy that the podcast spoke of ... (starts around 6:40 mark).

I am wondering about him - or this 'type' of person - because I could imagine Theo stopping to speak with this kind of person. He appears 'respectable' and non-threatening.
How long has he been there? How recent is recent? Evidently long enough to realise that leaving it dirty around there keeps people from moving in. What else does he know?


David: After everything I have been told about this area, he’s not what I am expecting.
He’s young. Articulate. And well presented. Inseparable in looks from the tourists at main beach, a block away.
He says that of course he knows about Theo. He’d read about him on Facebook.
I’d love to play you his voice, but after the first episode he contacted me and asked to be left out for personal reasons. It’s related to his mental wellbeing.
All things considered, I’ve agreed.

David: I phoned Nicoletta and asked what she remembered about the meeting.

Nicoletta: “It was sort of all sticks all weaved together. It was definitely like this great little setup that he’d stumbled upon. Umm .. then he just tidied the whole thing up. And sort of made it his own. It was all, like, rubbish and old clothes. Bits and pieces just strewn around. And the outside of that area, the outside of his camp, and from memory we asked if he was going to ..umm … clean that up.
He said actually no. He’s realised that if you clean up an area in that bushland, someone is likely to, sort of, move in on it. So, it’s better off to leave that whole area really dirty and messy because it’s less likely that someone’s going to move in to be his neighbour next door.
You know, he was such a sweet guy, he was so articulate, and only recently had become homeless.
He said the he didn’t have drug or alcohol issues, but he did have mental health issues, and had only recently just moved into the bush .. umm .. and become homeless. Because he did have a car but his registration has run out and he couldn’t afford to renew that registration."

NoCookies | The Australian

Thanks SA.

What a different life we live.
I found getting to know and talking each day to many of the homeless in Sydney when going to and from work a very enlightening experience.

Even though they are homeless, on the streets and in what we view as some of the most desperate and horrific conditions they are some of the strongest and intelligent characters I have met.

A life far different to what we live.

Hearing what they have said / described in the podcast sounds like those living in the campsites were very meticulous in their territory and surrounds. IMO if they were in their tents the night that Theo came through, I would expect that they would be aware of someone trudging through the bush

 

[Deleted member 255258]

Yes, I completely understood what you said ... and why.

I still firmly believe that the police have investigated Cosy Corner thoroughly. They have means of checking below the surface. And spent a lot of time specifically at Cosy Corner - they know that the trail ends there.

I am more of the opinion that Theo has ended up in the ocean. Either by being lured to a higher point, or by being taken to a higher point.


There are various scientific methods that can help locate such victims, with one of the most important being to identify variations in the surface, such as depressions or small hills, which could indicate that a body has been buried underneath. Search teams can also use specialist “cadaver dogs” to sniff for remains or geophysical methods to scan identified areas. The latter include ground penetrating radar, which uses radar pulses to image the subsurface.
http://theconversation.com/the-science-of-finding-buried-bodies-77803

Do we actually know though that they dug up CC or just surface investigation? I never saw anywhere or in my interactions with persons close to the investigation that they did such an in depth search and recovery at CC? That is my point. It is one thing to walk an area, another to a potential S&R. Also they did not consider homicide, which adds another level to such an investigation in a specific area (which they did not do as they thought death by misadventure at that time). Also while I understand what you are saying, there is no indication any of that in depth digging and search took place at CC (they just dismissed it as misadventure at that time) - my understanding it that it did not and it needs to be done. Cadaver dogs too late and if buried in sand, temperatures were cool back then, like a refrigerator, so scents would be even more limited if detectable at all. I also did not see anywhere where it said the cadaver dogs sniffed out CC at all. Tracks yes, CC did they? Can someone verify? I did not think the dogs searched all of CC and the beach. So either rule it on or out. Dig up CC. It was an area just surface walked. IMO

 

[mussopossum]

Having never taken any drugs, I accepted 1/2 a hash (cookie form) at a party a while back, plus believe drink also spiked. The paranoia escalated thinking everyone was in on an attempt to rape me, wanting/tried to escape but friends held me/locked in room hoping it would pass. I was very focused on just trying to get out of there and back home. Urine tests showed a mix of drugs, more than just what I thought would be in a hash cookie. Even when I got home (picked up by my partner), I tried to sleep with my sneakers on to make a quick escape! I can imagine Theo going through something similar, if not experienced in what to expect, plus everyone reacts differently it seems, such as the guy mentioned in the start of podcast 4

So sorry to hear that happened Sparks must have been a very frightening experience. Thank you for sharing with us.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

I meant rule it IN or out sorry for typo