Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[mussopossum]

More like this?

Are both camps on the right of the path taken?

I am treading carefully on this one as I dont believe that Tommy's camp site EXACT location has been shown in MSM or released in podcast or by family.

As the attached map shows a couple wide movements I am not going to speculate which area it is due to WS rules.

The area I went in based on the MSM gps maps, I have put my location on in image attached when was standing with a camp (looking at the beach) to the right of me, that was about 10m or so off the sand.

I have also attached a photo taken of the bush around this area leading onto the beach.

As there may have been somebody living in this camp I am not going to post the photos of their camp set up as I dont believe it is the right thing to do.

The gps location and photos are all IMOO based on the MSM maps.

NoCookies | The Australian

 

[mishachilli]

Another thing I’ve been thinking about from the latest episode of the podcast. It’s stated that when Theo’s phone gets to the T junction of the fire trail it waits there for 2 mins. Then proceeded right towards the beach.

What caused the 2 min pause?

Was it catching breath from going fast? Was it trying to find your way? Remember it didn’t seem the phone stopped where Theo’s hat was found so if that’s where Theo lost the hat, why not stop to look for it?

Also remember it’s pitch black in the scrub, if your getting chased, why even follow a path that can be seen? Why not just go off the path, even like at CC if he went in that scrub stuff to hide, why not do it on the fire trail path and when he went right into the scrub? It’s pitch black, I reckon during the day if I had a head start even by 2 mins I could hide pretty well from somebody off the track, let alone doing it at night. Literally anywhere on track go in 10 meters and lie behind a tree and wait, no one would find you!

Just wanted to ad.. speaking of the phone going into the scrub up at CC. I don’t think 5 and a half minutes is long enough to wait if you hiding and think you are in danger. It’s stated on podcast at night anyone in that scrub would not be seen if hiding, Sheri thinks he’s hiding...but for someone in a lucid state who is hiding from danger, wouldn’t you think you would wait a tad longer than 5 mins? Even if you see the danger going the other way, wouldn’t you wait more than 5 mins? I would.

Good point T about why not just hide in the fire trail if you’re getting chased! Also why not run towards the car park light of Tallows so you can run towards people. If it wasn’t Théo however, and someone wanted to get away from whatever happened at the rec fields then they could’ve been waiting for an all clear from someone else. Maybe those WhatsApp messages hold the keys.

 

[mishachilli]

Another thing I’ve been thinking about from the latest episode of the podcast. It’s stated that when Theo’s phone gets to the T junction of the fire trail it waits there for 2 mins. Then proceeded right towards the beach.

What caused the 2 min pause?

Was it catching breath from going fast? Was it trying to find your way? Remember it didn’t seem the phone stopped where Theo’s hat was found so if that’s where Theo lost the hat, why not stop to look for it?

Also remember it’s pitch black in the scrub, if your getting chased, why even follow a path that can be seen? Why not just go off the path, even like at CC if he went in that scrub stuff to hide, why not do it on the fire trail path and when he went right into the scrub? It’s pitch black, I reckon during the day if I had a head start even by 2 mins I could hide pretty well from somebody off the track, let alone doing it at night. Literally anywhere on track go in 10 meters and lie behind a tree and wait, no one would find you!

Just wanted to ad.. speaking of the phone going into the scrub up at CC. I don’t think 5 and a half minutes is long enough to wait if you hiding and think you are in danger. It’s stated on podcast at night anyone in that scrub would not be seen if hiding, Sheri thinks he’s hiding...but for someone in a lucid state who is hiding from danger, wouldn’t you think you would wait a tad longer than 5 mins? Even if you see the danger going the other way, wouldn’t you wait more than 5 mins? I would.

Good point T about why not just hide in the fire trail if you’re getting chased...Also why not run towards the car park light of Tallows so you can run towards people. If it wasn’t Théo however, and someone wanted to get away from whatever happened at the rec fields then they could’ve been waiting for the all clear from someone else. Maybe those WhatsApp messages hold the key.

 

[Rocket333]

I am treading carefully on this one as I dont believe that Tommy's camp site EXACT location has been shown in MSM or released in podcast or by family.

As the attached map shows a couple wide movements I am not going to speculate which area it is due to WS rules.

The area I went in based on the MSM gps maps, I have put my location on in image attached when was standing with a camp (looking at the beach) to the right of me, that was about 10m or so off the sand.

I have also attached a photo taken of the bush around this area leading onto the beach.

As there may have been somebody living in this camp I am not going to post the photos of their camp set up as I dont believe it is the right thing to do.

The gps location and photos are all IMOO based on the MSM maps.




View attachment 217424

NoCookies | The Australian

Sorry, you’re right. I was focussed on understanding, or deconstructing the environment and forgot about the resident’s right to privacy. The position of known camps is of course relevant to his path including steps he took around or towards them. I just need to not overly identify them. Thanks Musso.

 

[Rocket333]

Good point T about why not just hide in the fire trail if you’re getting chased! Also why not run towards the car park light of Tallows so you can run towards people. If it wasn’t Théo however, and someone wanted to get away from whatever happened at the rec fields then they could’ve been waiting for an all clear from someone else. Maybe those WhatsApp messages hold the keys.

It’d be really helpful to ascertain if it was Theo walking that path to CC. His family and their inner support team believe it was Theo, and as they are privy to all known info, much more than us, it seems the way to go until advised otherwise I think.

Therefore he’s a smart and cautious guy constantly keeping an eye on his location and home. A pause at a junction could indicate a discussion about direction. He still moved throughout all of this at a pretty decent pace too. I keep thinking he must have been with someone he felt ok about or he just wouldn’t have bothered with such a detour.

 

[Chiatos]

More like this?

Are both camps on the right of the path taken?

Based on the info of Podcast#4, Tommy's camp woud have been more upwards.
?

 

[mishachilli]

It’d be really helpful to ascertain if it was Theo walking that path to CC. His family and their inner support team believe it was Theo, and as they are privy to all known info, much more than us, it seems the way to go until advised otherwise I think.

Therefore he’s a smart and cautious guy constantly keeping an eye on his location and home. A pause at a junction could indicate a discussion about direction. He still moved throughout all of this at a pretty decent pace too. I keep thinking he must have been with someone he felt ok about or he just wouldn’t have bothered with such a detour.

Hey Rocket, I believe Theo’s father thinks he could be in a commune and I’ve had confirmation from Sherie that the team is also exploring the possibility it wasn’t Théo using his phone. Clearly the podcast is retracing the steps taken by his phone. However, I’m not sure that means they all believe it was Théo. No disrespect intended I just don’t agree that we should presume it was him until that can be ruled out. I believe we should be considering all plausible scenarios so we do not get blinkered in our thinking. Cheers.

 

[mussopossum]

Sorry, you’re right. I was focussed on understanding, or deconstructing the environment and forgot about the resident’s right to privacy. The position of known camps is of course relevant to his path including steps he took around or towards them. I just need to not overly identify them. Thanks Musso.

No dont be sorry!

I was just being more mindful of the WS rules and yes also the current beach camp residents privacy, even though it is a shelter with a tarp or two over it, I didnt feel right posting a photo of it on here as it is someones home and I felt like I was invading their privacy.

I know the hardest part is trying to understand the area when you haven't walked in there yourself.

When I did it changed everything in my head.

 

[mussopossum]

It’d be really helpful to ascertain if it was Theo walking that path to CC. His family and their inner support team believe it was Theo, and as they are privy to all known info, much more than us, it seems the way to go until advised otherwise I think.

Therefore he’s a smart and cautious guy constantly keeping an eye on his location and home. A pause at a junction could indicate a discussion about direction. He still moved throughout all of this at a pretty decent pace too. I keep thinking he must have been with someone he felt ok about or he just wouldn’t have bothered with such a detour.

If he had not looked up Wake up hostel then I would say maybe it wasn't him.

But I ask myself, If he was with someone against his will or in general would he keep looking at his phone. especially if he was being moved through the bush not at his own will. Likely would take the phone off him.

For me I beleive things went wrong at CC, not Tennyson or CM.

None of it makes any sense!

 

[mishachilli]

If he had not looked up Wake up hostel then I would say maybe it wasn't him.

But I ask myself, If he was with someone against his will or in general would he keep looking at his phone. especially if he was being moved through the bush not at his own will. Likely would take the phone off him.

For me I beleive things went wrong at CC, not Tennyson or CM.

None of it makes any sense!

Yeah it’s baffling. I guess I keep in mind that he’d been looking up his hostel from the time he left CM. So perhaps that search could have kept being refreshed to keep the phone active even if the phone had left his hands.

 

[mussopossum]

Yeah it’s baffling. I guess I keep in mind that he’d been looking up his hostel from the time he left CM. So perhaps that search could have kept being refreshed to keep the phone active even if the phone had left his hands.

I am going to do a whole new theory sheet in the next week of the what-ifs and scenarios vs data/info confirmed.

That is the problem, there are so many what-ifs.

 

[Jenz]

Yeah it’s baffling. I guess I keep in mind that he’d been looking up his hostel from the time he left CM. So perhaps that search could have kept being refreshed to keep the phone active even if the phone had left his hands.

From what I understood in the 4th podcast it was mentioned one needed to physically activate the search, as opposed to it refreshing...
It was my thoughts as well, that it could easily be refreshed, though apparently not. This is a mystery, among many!

I'm totally lost, with multiple theories now...

I'm still not convinced Theo had his phone when it travelled to CC...my reasoning being, unless it was someone Theo "totally" trusted, he would not have gone with them MOO. On the otherhand, if he happened upon dodgy people at Tennyson who gave Theo a bit if grief...and the dude who had the second camp was there....maybe Theo would have followed hom, believing he was someone safe to be with to escape the stuff at Tennyson....then what?

Then, maybe it was up to Theo to find his own way back to WU; perhaps feeling not safe with the guy from second camp either for some reason?.....or even parted ways amicably....thought the beach continued around the cape....?
IMO...I don't think Theo would have wanted to trek back through that bush alone.....if it was him with his phone...

 

[Chiatos]

It’s stated that when Theo’s phone gets to the T junction of the fire trail it waits there for 2 mins. Then proceeded right towards the beach.

What caused the 2 min pause?

Theo or whoever was using the phone looked up WU during those 2 minutes before turning right.

 

[mussopossum]

What perplexes me.

He goes out his way to walk through bush.

When he exists the beach, as shown on the map he doesn’t go down near the water, but walks along the top part where it appears to meet vegetation.

Then appears to head straight up into a steeper area full of vines.

There was a large opening on the beach to this area however no obvious trail I could see. And that was daytime.

Took a bit of fiddling round with gps and looking at map but ended up in spot deep inside the bush area which was covered in vines with a valley like dip to the left.

You couldn’t walk through you have to climb (when you get in there)

There was loads bottles there from what appears parties in the past and I would assume that this may be the spot or close to where he sat for 5 min?

This may be where doof parties were held as previously reported up around CC?

So my point here.

On the map Theo seems to just walk straight to this area.

IMO he headed to that spot or whoever had his phone on purpose.

I checked my location when there in gm and all could see was road above me on it.

Leads me to think someone was with him taking him down that trail and then up to that area above CC.

JMOO

 

[espirtu pampa]

View attachment 217516

What perplexes me.

He goes out his way to walk through bush.

When he exists the beach, as shown on the map he doesn’t go down near the water, but walks along the top part where it appears to meet vegetation.

Then appears to head straight up into a steeper area full of vines.

There was a large opening on the beach to this area however no obvious trail I could see. And that was daytime.

Took a bit of fiddling round with gps and looking at map but ended up in spot deep inside the bush area which was covered in vines with a valley like dip to the left.

You couldn’t walk through you have to climb (when you get in there)

There was loads bottles there from what appears parties in the past and I would assume that this may be the spot or close to where he sat for 5 min?

This may be where doof parties were held as previously reported up around CC?

So my point here.

On the map Theo seems to just walk straight to this area.

IMO he headed to that spot or whoever had his phone on purpose.

I checked my location when there in gm and all could see was road above me on it.

Leads me to think someone was with him taking him down that trail and then up to that area above CC.

JMOO

Would Théo and the other person (?) went there to check if a party was going on ?

Do you think it is possible to climb up to the road, let's say during daytime ? Could he/they have been looking for a shortcut ?

 

[mussopossum]

Would Théo and the other person (?) went there to check if a party was going on ?

Do you think it is possible to climb up to the road, let's say during daytime ? Could he/they have been looking for a shortcut ?

Put it this way Espirtu,

If I had just come from where he had and could just walk back along the beach in the open and into car park and road to get out why on earth would he want to climb through thick bush infested with lantana snakes and vines.

All he had to do was go back down (as he did) to the beach and walk back the way he came but head to car park. You could clearly see Tallow beach car park in the GPS when I did it and road leading out.

I would liken it to taking a walk along the beach at ease to being in a high-grade obstacle course dense scrub with snakes and other crawlies.

To get out of there you would be climbing through vines, possibly getting scratched by lantana and other plants and bitten by snakes.

The area is steep, in the day time yeah you prob could get out walking at an angle across to the top of it makes sense but at night you would be a fool to do it. Even in the day really.

It makes no sense why he would enter the beach go straight to this area in the bush only to shortcut back up to the road or lighthouse again.

It is like he didnt go there to see the beach if that makes sense, he went for another reason.

IMO if he went to look at the beach he would gone straight to the water when he exit the bush from waling passed the campsites, but as per his map route, he didnt.
I reacon he went there intentionally or with someone who took him there.

If there was no party there that night then why did he go there? Maybe someone under false pretenses said there was and lured him there. Or was there a party we just dont know about

All IMO, what are your thoughts E?

 

[Rocket333]

View attachment 217516

What perplexes me.

He goes out his way to walk through bush.

When he exists the beach, as shown on the map he doesn’t go down near the water, but walks along the top part where it appears to meet vegetation.

Then appears to head straight up into a steeper area full of vines.

There was a large opening on the beach to this area however no obvious trail I could see. And that was daytime.

Took a bit of fiddling round with gps and looking at map but ended up in spot deep inside the bush area which was covered in vines with a valley like dip to the left.

You couldn’t walk through you have to climb (when you get in there)

There was loads bottles there from what appears parties in the past and I would assume that this may be the spot or close to where he sat for 5 min?

This may be where doof parties were held as previously reported up around CC?

So my point here.

On the map Theo seems to just walk straight to this area.

IMO he headed to that spot or whoever had his phone on purpose.

I checked my location when there in gm and all could see was road above me on it.

Leads me to think someone was with him taking him down that trail and then up to that area above CC.

JMOO

In my images below I’ve marked your position as the red dot. From all you’ve done and said, it seems to me that he was attempting to get onto that cosy corner trail above.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Like many of you, I too have been thinking a lot about whether Theo was separated from his phone. Here’s how I image the scenario would play out:

Theo got into trouble at Tennyson St oval. Phone was taken off him by whoever went to abandoned campsite, then pretended to be Theo along CC to subvert truth. Meanwhile, whoever else was at oval took Theo away and hid evidence.

If we think of it this way, someone taking Theo’s phone off him becomes quite an intricate, multi-faceted crime. It’s a possibility for sure, but do we usually get this kind of clear sightedness, forward thinking, dedication and intellect from the people hanging around the concrete slab at night? Also, there would be several people involved.

It would also suggest that the abandoned camp guy would know the others at oval well, enough to trust each other in crime. Supposedly, they would meet up again afterwards.

And if they were into ‘hiding all their tracks’ this much, why leave tarp up and a towel behind (or what looks like one hanging off branch)? It is possible, but the pieces don’t make sense to me.

 

[Rocket333]

Like many of you, I too have been thinking a lot about whether Theo was separated from his phone. Here’s how I image the scenario would play out:

Theo got into trouble at Tennyson St oval. Phone was taken off him by whoever went to abandoned campsite, then pretended to be Theo along CC to subvert truth. Meanwhile, whoever else was at oval took Theo away and hid evidence.

If we think of it this way, someone taking Theo’s phone off him becomes quite an intricate, multi-faceted crime. It’s a possibility for sure, but do we usually get this kind of clear sightedness, forward thinking, dedication and intellect from the people hanging around the concrete slab at night? Also, there would be several people involved.

It would also suggest that the abandoned camp guy would know the others at oval well, enough to trust each other in crime. Supposedly, they would meet up again afterwards.

And if they were into ‘hiding all their tracks’ this much, why leave tarp up and a towel behind (or what looks like one hanging off branch)? It is possible, but the pieces don’t make sense to me.

An opportunistic and spontaneous plan?
Maybe a group of them ran to the beach with Theo in tow.
Maybe the beach camp guy is actually missing too, like Theo?
Lots of possibilities, but I reckon the story and the events that occurred are quite simple.

 

[mussopossum]

In my images below I’ve marked your position as the red dot. From all you’ve done and said, it seems to me that he was attempting to get onto that cosy corner trail above.

The trail didn't come up for me in my location. So not sure how he would have known was there? Does it come up for you Rocket? I have an Iphone.

But my thoughts are, why would he come down only to go back up again almost instantly? and not just go the way in red (first pic) and up through car park in the trail or not through bush at all and just go onto Tallow and the car park to the trail.

And what you have suggested the second pic in red would have him doing a 360.

This is what I cannot get past, why he would go down to that area then wonder down to the water then nothing.

I still believe he sought this location fro a reason IMO

And I can understand why Theos family believe that he was with someone who knew the area well on that night.