Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #3

[CKTC]

To my understanding Théo also talked to a friend in Belgium who said Théo was as usual.

There hasn’t been a report of Théo talking to someone on the phone that night that I remember. On the podcast they said just two brief replies using WhatsApp and messenger.

 

[feralflower]

So agree. I think his whole intention was to go home. Just not directly. If he was google mapping WU constantly, he’d also see the surrounding streets and spots like the beach, and all in relation to his destination. Easy enough on the map. Just don’t get why he didn’t go up Middleton instead of Tennyson though. I’m not convinced it was because Middleton looks dark & scary like suggested, and makes me think Tennyson was deliberate.

Possibly went to Tennyson to try get a ride home. It is a free night parking spot. He may have met someone earlier who was staying there camping and had a vehicle, someone who he may not even have got a hold of but was reason enough to come to this area hoping to find them and ask for a ride home. I agree too if he was avoiding Middleton because of darkness then this is inconsistent with the rest of his route. The end of Tennyson I imagine would be quite dark as well and clearly not a main kind of street once past the Marvell St corner along with a No Through Rd sign there and map would have shown the scrub area he was heading towards. If he avoided Middleton because of appearing too dark I don't think the end of Tennyson would have looked appealing either. The entrance of Arakwal Park even less so never mind the rest of the dark areas, though he may not have been with his phone by then. Can say he was with his phone up to the end of Tennyson as no pauses before the 7 minute break in his journey once there. It is there at Tennyson everything changes, including his pace and direction. Was it even his pace? A lot can happen in 7 minutes, it is long enough to be mugged of his phone.

 

[feralflower]

Deleted duplicate.

 

[AJF-Aus]

I just tested Whatsapp... if you draft a message / reply to someone eg “Ugh U2 not until March xyz...” then close out of it, and open later (even hours later), the message is still there.

Easy opportunity for someone if message already typed. And the only other (known) message was “Merci x” (or similar) I believe.

Not complex for a stranger.

I am not suggesting it’s not Théo texting (I’m of the mind it was him) - just info for the benefit of those who are thinking this way.

 

[espirtu pampa]

I just tested Whatsapp... if you draft a message / reply to someone eg “Ugh U2 not until March xyz...” then close out of it, and open later (even hours later), the message is still there.

Easy opportunity for someone if message already typed. And the only other (known) message was “Merci x” (or similar) I believe.

Not complex for a stranger.

I am not suggesting it’s not Théo texting (I’m of the mind it was him) - just info for the benefit of those who are thinking this way.

Thank you AJF-Aus. This is very interesting.

But Théo would not have written "Urgh" replying to Belgian friends. I'd like to know the exact word he used. I've put this question all over but to no avail.

 

[BusterXP]

There hasn’t been a report of Théo talking to someone on the phone that night that I remember. On the podcast they said just two brief replies using WhatsApp and messenger.

I'm having doubts about the second WhatsApp message. I think that's the one that the recipient is unknown and what triggered the appeal for data access.
The second whatsapp message might be based on 'Last Seen' info but they doesn't require that a message was sent. It only requires whatsapp being brought to the foreground.
I'm basing this on a lack of info since there hasn't been detailed disclosure.

 

[espirtu pampa]

I'm having doubts about the second WhatsApp message. I think that's the one that the recipient is unknown and what triggered the appeal for data access.
The second whatsapp message might be based on 'Last Seen' info but they doesn't require that a message was sent. It only requires whatsapp being brought to the foreground.
I'm basing this on a lack of info since there hasn't been detailed disclosure.

Wonder why there is a lack of info at this level : they know more now than did at the time (which is good news) or this thread is not read and therefore not answered to ?

 

[Jables333]

The area around those Rec Grounds are certainly sketchy at night - walking home late one night with the group of mates I was staying with we were approached there by a group of teenagers saying all sorts of odd things to us...

I'm imagining TH could have been approached there by a group in the same manner and went along with it...

We were passing through along the path that runs from Tennyson through to Cowper and were approached on the Tennyson side - they were all hanging out where the little grandstand is for the cricket

We're all creatures of habit.

When I was a kid our group used to always hang around the same spots. We liked them for whatever reason. Maybe a place had a cool patch of dirt to skid our bikes on, or a big old tree to climb or whatever. You probably had some spots you hung out at many times too.

I'm not saying the guys you refer to were involved in the TH story.

But I am saying that there's going to be 'regulars' who are at the Rec Grounds area on a frequent basis. And the majority of them will live nearby.

So that night, while the residents were mostly at home, at least some of the Rec Ground regulars would have been around the Rec Grounds.

And it's not a stretch of the imagination to assume that one or more of them will have seen or heard something.

And because they live there and the Rec Grounds are a place they like to hang out, even if they stayed away for a while, by now they will have gone back because they like their hangout spot.

But what can we do with that?

It would be a big job to find out who the regulars are. Then what? Offer a reward?

Or figure out their weak links and information about some of them that could be leveraged to get info about that night?

Any ideas anyone here?

 

[espirtu pampa]

We're all creatures of habit.

When I was a kid our group used to always hang around the same spots. We liked them for whatever reason. Maybe a place had a cool patch of dirt to skid our bikes on, or a big old tree to climb or whatever. You probably had some spots you hung out at many times too.

I'm not saying the guys you refer to were involved in the TH story.

But I am saying that there's going to be 'regulars' who are at the Rec Grounds area on a frequent basis. And the majority of them will live nearby.

So that night, while the residents were mostly at home, at least some of the Rec Ground regulars would have been around the Rec Grounds.

And it's not a stretch of the imagination to assume that one or more of them will have seen or heard something.

And because they live there and the Rec Grounds are a place they like to hang out, even if they stayed away for a while, by now they will have gone back because they like their hangout spot.

But what can we do with that?

It would be a big job to find out who the regulars are. Then what? Offer a reward?

Or figure out their weak links and information about some of them that could be leveraged to get info about that night?

Any ideas anyone here?

Join the group(s) if not too old or not living faraway. Smoke and deal with them.

 

[SouthAussie]

Wonder why there is a lack of info at this level : they know more now than did at the time (which is good news) or this thread is not read and therefore not answered to ?

The last we heard, it is not possible for WhatsApp to retrieve messages. They can retrieve the fact that there was activity at certain times, but they do not store messages on their servers.

 

[BusterXP]

Wonder why there is a lack of info at this level : they know more now than did at the time (which is good news) or this thread is not read and therefore not answered to ?

The way I see it is there is suspicion that additional WhatsApp contact was made. That was before the appeal to access whatsapp data.
I'm thinking that suspicion may have been based on 'Last Seen'. 'Last Seen' is when used and that might just be bringing it forward or looking at old messages. I don't think they'd have any more specific information at that stage. I'm not sure if Google logs WhatsApp use or is specific about a message being sent it it does.
I tested wrt 'Last Seen' and what triggers it.
I think there's a possibility no more WhatsApp messages were sent.

 

[SouthAussie]

We're all creatures of habit.

When I was a kid our group used to always hang around the same spots. We liked them for whatever reason. Maybe a place had a cool patch of dirt to skid our bikes on, or a big old tree to climb or whatever. You probably had some spots you hung out at many times too.

I'm not saying the guys you refer to were involved in the TH story.

But I am saying that there's going to be 'regulars' who are at the Rec Grounds area on a frequent basis. And the majority of them will live nearby.

So that night, while the residents were mostly at home, at least some of the Rec Ground regulars would have been around the Rec Grounds.

And it's not a stretch of the imagination to assume that one or more of them will have seen or heard something.

And because they live there and the Rec Grounds are a place they like to hang out, even if they stayed away for a while, by now they will have gone back because they like their hangout spot.

But what can we do with that?

It would be a big job to find out who the regulars are. Then what? Offer a reward?

Or figure out their weak links and information about some of them that could be leveraged to get info about that night?

Any ideas anyone here?

Ken is the PI involved. He can be using his skills among this regular group of youths.

 

[BusterXP]

The last we heard, it is not possible for WhatsApp to retrieve messages. They can retrieve the fact that there was activity at certain times, but they do not store messages on their servers.

It's end to end encryption with the messages and keys only saved on the devices.
There is an optional Google Drive backup in a database format that isn't encrypted. Depends on the timing as to what that contains if it exists.

 

[Rocket333]

Thank you AJF-Aus. This is very interesting.

But Théo would not have written "Urgh" replying to Belgian friends. I'd like to know the exact word he used. I've put this question all over but to no avail.

That’s all we know. The “urgh” or whatever the sound is him thinking for a second because he’s not certain. Like an “ummm”.

“Theo sent two messages in French at 12.20am and 12.55am - one on Facebook messenger to a friend and another on WhatsApp to his stepsister in Belgium.

As part of a discussion with his friend about the band U2's upcoming tour of Australia he wrote 'ugh, in September or something?'

His final message to his stepsister was a reply which read 'Merci' with a kiss emoji.”

Theo's final texts are revealed as family gain access to missing Belgian backpacker's Google history | Daily Mail Online

 

[SouthAussie]

That’s all we know. The “urgh” or whatever the sound is him thinking for a second because he’s not certain. Like an “ummm”.

“Theo sent two messages in French at 12.20am and 12.55am - one on Facebook messenger to a friend and another on WhatsApp to his stepsister in Belgium.

As part of a discussion with his friend about the band U2's upcoming tour of Australia he wrote 'ugh, in September or something?'

His final message to his stepsister was a reply which read 'Merci' with a kiss emoji.”

Theo's final texts are revealed as family gain access to missing Belgian backpacker's Google history | Daily Mail Online

Well, espirtu pampa seems to think that 'ugh' would not be a word that a Belgian (?) would use.
So what does that tell us?

 

[Rocket333]

Well, espirtu pampa seems to think that 'ugh' would not be a word that a Belgian (?) would use.
So what does that tell us?

Ugh that espirtu thinks it’s not a word Theo would use?

His family said it like that when sharing the contents. When you listen to the cousins, the godfather, the father, they all go “ urgh” when pausing to think. We don’t know what the message said verbatim, but just the gist. That they weren’t too concerned, given they know Theo best, eases my mind and belief anyway.

 

[SouthAussie]

Ugh that espirtu thinks it’s not a word Theo would use?

His family said it like that when sharing the contents. When you listen to the cousins, the godfather, the father, they all go “ urgh” when pausing to think. We don’t know what the message said verbatim, but just the gist. That they weren’t too concerned, given they know Theo best, eases my mind and belief anyway.

As I said before, the family have thought other things then have changed their minds. They are very emotionally involved, understandably. And they have my greatest empathy.

I question everything, so far. I question the cap and how long it laid there, I question the messages, I question that it was Theo making that GPS trail to Tallow.

I like to think that if we think laterally maybe we can think of a few things that Ken should be investigating. Like those youths at the rec grounds, where Theo's phone was for 7 long minutes before making a wayward trail to Tallow.

Do any of them have a history of violence, theft, ice use, harassment? We know that at least one of them is not backwards in approaching strangers - even a group of strangers - at night.

 

[mussopossum]

The friend at the other end of the line would not have said Théo was OK if the voice was not the same.

This friend came out by calling the family when he heard about Théo missing so he must have been talked to by the Belgian police. I don't know where to find a MSM link to this. Doesn't my info ring a bell ? Am I the only one who heard about this ?

They were not voice messages or voice communication they were Whats app messages and messenger.

 

[mussopossum]

I though they had a brief chat - a message or two? Not a voice call.

Correct IMO

 

[mussopossum]

Strange that the content of the msg is not known unless hidden from us. The friend must know. The Belgian police too.

I'll think over it. Thanks SouthAussie.

I think the media played out a lot as did LE that the Whats app messages were not known to who and what in the beginning which sparked alot speculation that maybe that person was involved and not coming forward.

I beleive the podcast covered a bit about these messages and their contents