Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #3

[Deleted member 249471]

I came across this old story.

Young backpacker Theo Hayez missing in Australia and 'in grave danger'


Even though the Shirly St footage was ruled out they also mention a ping around the ridge area.

So pinged at around 117 am.

I dont remember seeing this before.

On CCTV footage from an accommodation house on Shirley Street, at 11.17pm, Theo is seen looking at his phone, before turning right toward his hostel. A couple of hours later, his phone was pinged near Byron Beach and Tallow Beach near Tallow's Ridge.

Mussopossum, I think the article is confusing cctv sources. I saw a few of these incorrect stories at the time they were released. It is true the final ping was at 1.17pm on the Saturday, but they are mixing up initial report of Theo potentially being seen on Shirley St from Aloha/petrol station cctv, with actual footage released from CMs. They think the attached video is the Shirley St footage, which it isn't.

 

[espirtu pampa]

Why do French native speakers say "ugh/euh" after phrases?
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-French-native-speakers-say-ugh-euh-after-phrases

Very interesting article I'am going to read it thorougly to brush up my English and... my French : ))) at the same time.

Asked the early twenties in the family and yes they hear and receive msg with urg

 

[Rocket333]

The phone in the sand eliminates a cliff climb.

 

[espirtu pampa]

The phone in the sand eliminates a cliff climb.

The phone and the hat point to foul play IMO. So could it be why Théo's file was handed over that early to the Coroner ?

 

[SouthAussie]

The phone and the hat point to foul play IMO. So could it be why Théo's file was handed that early to the Coroner ?

The Coroner's task is solely to rule on a death. How the death happened, what can be done to avoid such a death happening again.

During coronial proceedings, a coroner can compel 'witnesses' to speak - unless they are going to implicate themselves in a crime.

The Coroner's finding may be that a death happened, may be that it is 'open' (inconclusive that a death happened, or how it happened), may find that a death occurred at the hands of a person(s) unknown or known.

Then a Coroner can make recommendations - such as how to avoid a death happening again, or that a person(s) be investigated more closely by the police (the Coroner won't name the person(s) in their final report, but the police will know who it is, and you can generally tell who it is by the gist of the proceedings).

This is the basic outline of the purpose of an inquest.

If you read a few coronial reports that can be found on the Coroner's Court site, you will get an idea of what happens in an inquest.
At this link ... Coronial findings

 

[Rocket333]

The phone and the hat point to foul play IMO. So could it be why Théo's file was handed that early to the Coroner ?

Yes I’m suspecting foul play too.
Not sure why it’s gone to the coroner at this point except to speculate that the police have concluded their investigation and are presenting a cliff fall proposition that resulted in death.

It would be great for all parties to hear the police perspective as without clarification about the phone intel, the cap, the phone in the sand, the judge club, the not following up of concerning reports and leads, and not releasing really crucial information to generate public awareness and disclosures, it comes across as quite strange and uncooperative. It feels like they were open to possibilities for such a brief window in time and have now firmly bolted the door and the case is closed. I understand resource limitations and needing evidence of a crime, and I get that the phone pinging near the cliff and the telco report all supports a fall, but that explanation isn’t that exceptionally strong in the overall scheme of things.

 

[sparks030405]

Is it possible Theo walked to CC (hoping for a doof party to be happening) with a few backpackers that were staying at Stay In Byron (cnr Carlyle/Cowper)? Has the PI/police interviewed guests that were staying there? The Podcast hasn’t discussed this idea. The group of them might have been spooked by unexpected homeless along Milne Track route, running to get away, and Theo loosing his cap in the excitement and panic.

Once at CC and settled, after some time, the others may have returned a different way (via Tallow Beach Road) to avoid the homeless that they might have disturbed. Is it possible Theo thought it would be safer to get up onto Lighthouse Road and then walk along sealed roads from there back to WU, but did slip on the goat track? Would need to hold phone for torch, so phone may not have fallen as far as Theo.

Not sure about found Oppo phone at CC. Police said it wasn’t Theo’s. If Theo stayed alone for a bit at CC, and could have been mugged there, or up on Lighthouse Road area.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I agree with foul play and also don’t think he accidentally fell. A lot doesn’t add up.

The thing I struggle with the most is the sketchiness of the Tennyson St concrete slab and then being lead into the bush. I keep imagining whatever happened, did so at the oval, or shortly after. Yet it truly does appear Theo was operating his phone until 1.01 am.

Whatever the case, he IMO obviously interacted with the kids on Tennyson St but they have not spoken up. Kinda makes them looks guilty of something, no? It’s not like police don’t know they’re there every night. Did they get interviewed???

I made an error before. Drop in signal is between 2-4am, sleep mode is 2-6.

12.05 am - Cosy Corner - leaves lantana alcove towards beach, GPS stops recording location
12.20 am - location unknown - messenger
12.23 am - location unknown - YouTube
12.55 am - location unknown - WhatsApp
12.56 am - near town - phone tower ping
1.01 am - location unknown - Google maps zooms in and out
2.00 am - location unknown - phone enters sleep mode, drop in signal strength
4.00 am - location unknown - phone regains signal strength
6.00 am - location unknown - phone exits sleep mode
1.42 pm - near Cape Byron - final ping

 

[Jenz]

I'm thinking there's a remote possibility that the phone signal strength dropped because it was in water. That phone won't last long submerged though.
We all also know how a signal can drop due to outside conditions.

The tide was low at 12.01pm... high tide at 6.38am.
How long can a phone last submerged @BusterXP ?

 

[Jenz]

1. Low power mode and sleep mode are different. The first is a phone power saving issue. The second is a provider process for reducing the amount of times a phone registers with towers during night time when people sleep.

2. I’ve been doing some research. It turns out weak phone signal or black spots occur when phone is:

- in a valley or low ground close to base of tower (higher ground is ‘casting a shadow’ preventing signal to reach phone)

- under the cover of dense trees

- inside a construction with thick insulation that absorbs signal (concrete, brick) or with exposed metal elements that reflect signal (tin roof, pipes, window tinting)

- in an area close to tower but not in direct path of signal due to antena angle and tilt

- in between towers of same frequency (picks up all the ‘noise’) or in between towers with strong signal competing for phone to connect to.

Alternatively, it could be if sim is damaged or has a lot of dirt on it.

Interestingly, if a sim is put in a different phone, that should not affect signal.

Or sand?

 

[Jenz]

If the police think he went into the water and was swept away (noting the currents mentioned in the 6th podcast), what’s the explanation for phone ping at 1.42pm next day?

He had an accident and fell into the water but NOT with his phone? Is that a bit far fetched?

Lost phone somewhere then had an accident is two unusual events. And too unusual IMO.

Depends...on the tides. It is possible Theo fell (at low tide) his phone could have landed on rocks around the area? The tide then could have taken Theo out and with the current for that time put him in those caves (mentioned in pod 6) ...his phone then knocked off rock around high tide.... maybe?

 

[Pod]

Was the final ping not from the Paterson Street tower?

 

[Jables333]

IMO if you’re climbing a goat track or precarious area you’re not hanging onto your phone. It’s in your pocket. You are being vigilant. I just think ‘accident’ with him gone but not phone is odd.

Edit: AND for it to land somewhere obvious to be found the next day...?

In Portugal last year an Australian-British couple fell over a lookout wall to their deaths.

Very sadly it seems they had climbed over a 'safety wall' (it's not much more than waist high) and they were taking selfies with the view in the background (a bit fishy because it was in the early hours of the morning and so there was no real view).

However this scenario could separate a person from their phone.

But even saying that I am not sold on that theory in Theo's case. He sounds like a smart enough guy. I think there were others involved.

https://www.google.pt/url?sa=t&sour...gQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0_NsTf-vRgk6T5RaoxAnYp&cf=1

 

[Jenz]

Deleted

 

[Jables333]

Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

Take a look at this New York Times article and look at the dragnet images from Sensorvault.

"The new orders, sometimes called “geofence” warrants, specify an area and a time period, and Google gathers information from Sensorvault about the devices that were there.

It labels them with anonymous ID numbers, and detectives look at locations and movement patterns to see if any appear relevant to the crime.

Once they narrow the field to a few devices they think belong to suspects or witnesses, Google reveals the users’ names and other information."

Suspects OR witnesses...

Obviously this only helps if phones are on. And you can argue privacy etc. But clearly other law enforcement agencies are taking advantage of the possibility. There is precedent.

I understood from podcast 6 that the Australian police are no longer working Theo's case and that it is with the Coroner.

So I would love to see the Belgian police get a lead from this.

 

[Jenz]

Depends...on the tides. It is possible Theo fell (at low tide) his phone could have landed on rocks around the area? The tide then could have taken Theo out and with the current for that time put him in those caves (mentioned in pod 6) ...his phone then knocked off rock around high tide.... maybe?

Or...someone could have left his phone there...to make it look like an accident?

 

[Rocket333]

Be mindful of not simply dismissing the oppo phone found in the sand (suspect it was red too) just because the police deny it’s Theo’s. Post their early involvement & search, they haven’t been forthcoming or collaborative, and still haven’t officially confirmed the cap. I think that oppo phone found in the sand at CC in July is Theo’s. What’s the chances of someone else losing a replica of Theo’s phone there then? It’s very slim.

 

[SouthAussie]

Oppo phones rank very high in smartphone comparison. They are not an uncommon phone.
They have a 5 star rating (the highest) in value for money, overall satisfaction. durability, battery life, and appearance.
They rank #1 among all of the popular brands.



Smartphone Review | Best Smartphones Australia – Canstar Blue

At the inquest the police will be fully accountable for all of their deductions. Unless they are privately/covertly investigating someone in relation to Theo's disappearance (always a possibility), I personally see no reason for them to evade the truth about the found phone.

 

[Rocket333]

Oppo phones rank very high in smartphone comparison. They are not an uncommon phone.
They have a 5 star rating (the highest) in value for money, overall satisfaction. durability, battery life, and appearance.
They rank #1 among all of the popular brands.

View attachment 219170

Smartphone Review | Best Smartphones Australia – Canstar Blue

At the inquest the police will be fully accountable for all of their deductions. Unless they are privately/covertly investigating someone in relation to Theo's disappearance (always a possibility), I personally see no reason for them to evade the truth about the found phone.

Yep, no worries. The oppo phone found in the sand at CC in July isn’t Theo’s. The grey puma cap found on the beach track won’t hold up as evidence because testing rendered any DNA detected inconclusive. Suffice to say, the cap isn’t conclusively Theo’s. No phone, no cap. The phone pinged from the headland. Theo fell from the cliffs into the ocean. The police said so.

What’s more to do here?

 

[SouthAussie]

Yep, no worries. The oppo phone found in the sand at CC in July isn’t Theo’s. The grey puma cap found on the beach track won’t hold up as evidence because testing rendered any DNA detected inconclusive. Suffice to say, the cap isn’t conclusively Theo’s. No phone, no cap. The phone pinged from the headland. Theo fell from the cliffs into the ocean. The police said so.

What’s more to do here?

Probably wait for the inquest and see what the evidence is. And remain open to all possibilities, based on the known evidence.

We can speculate all we want on the various items and some big conspiracy by the police. But they will be accountable for all of their deductions, and a Coroner won't just believe them if there is a question about their accuracy.

For example, at the William Tyrrell inquest the Coroner is re-testing the forensics on the photos taken of William that morning, to ensure that the police timeline is correct. There is a difference between the photo times and the camera times - likely due to a Bali time difference, but they are still being re-tested by an expert.