Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #3

[mussopossum]

That phone that John’s friend found in the sand at CC. (Pod 6, 50:00)
It’s the same as Theo’s.

What are the chances of a phone the same as Theo’s being found buried in the sand at Cosy Corner in July?

That has to be Theo’s phone. The cap has to be his too.

His phone at CC.
His cap on the beach track.

He was ok at CC. So the phone dropped first and then his cap on his exit from the beach?

The police aren’t sharing test results, findings, evidence, phone intel. Why? What else are they sitting on?

What baffles me is that they wont share information yet are quick to say that they believe that he may have fell and died through misadventure.

We know that police withhold information in a case sometimes due to tactical reasons however in this case they were very quick to say misadventure and refer to the coroner so I wonder why they would not want to release further detail to the family.

 

[Rocket333]

Probably wait for the inquest and see what the evidence is. And remain open to all possibilities, based on the known evidence.

We can speculate all we want on the various items and some big conspiracy by the police. But they will be accountable for all of their deductions, and a Coroner won't just believe them if there is a question about their accuracy.

For example, at the William Tyrrell inquest the Coroner is re-testing the forensics on the photos taken of William that morning, to ensure that the police timeline is correct. There is a difference between the photo times and the camera times - likely due to a Bali time difference, but they are still being re-tested by an expert.

Police conspiracy? My take is police limitations born of finite tools, time and mindsets (work within criminal code). Imagine if everyone followed your suggestion to just leave it the coronial investigation, which could take years. The family, the community and the observations of Gamble and Murray are detecting more thoroughly, openly and accurately than all else.

Theo’s case (like William’s) needs a proactive approach based on critical thinking, not passive belief. Time is of the essence, as is independent thinking.

 

[Harpboon]

The cap, the phone, the pings after the police said he would of been in the water, the fact that the people that know him best don’t think he would of ever climb the cliffs...to me this all leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

I pray for this to be solved for the family.

@Rocket333 100% agree with you on the phone being most likely Theo’s, seriously what are the chances. Too much of a MASSIVE coincidence!!!

 

[SouthAussie]

Police conspiracy? My take is police limitations born of finite tools, time and mindsets (work within criminal code). Imagine if everyone followed your suggestion to just leave it the coronial investigation, which could take years. The family, the community and the observations of Gamble and Murray are detecting more thoroughly, openly and accurately than all else.

Theo’s case (like William’s) needs a proactive approach based on critical thinking, not passive belief. Time is of the essence, as is independent thinking.

Please do not infer that I am not independently thinking. I am not a sheep who follows along with the crowd, as is obvious.

But to keep dismissing the stated facts is like creating situations which are not said to be. Something which I am seeing the police accused of on this thread.

I personally am open to a variety of situations, which I believe I have clearly stated throughout these threads.

 

[Rocket333]

Please do not infer that I am not independently thinking. I am not a sheep who follows along with the crowd, as is obvious.
I personally am open to a variety of situations, which I believe I have clearly stated throughout these threads.

Great to hear you’re open to all possibilities, including the limitations of the police investigation, and can critique the small scraps of info they’ve directly and indirectly shared.
I’m keen to hear your input from a perspective of that found oppo phone being Theo’s. Dismiss the police rhetoric as relayed by the pod for a sec, and cast your thoughts on that phone with open mind and eyes.

 

[mussopossum]

[

Mussopossum, I think the article is confusing cctv sources. I saw a few of these incorrect stories at the time they were released. It is true the final ping was at 1.17pm on the Saturday, but they are mixing up initial report of Theo potentially being seen on Shirley St from Aloha/petrol station cctv, with actual footage released from CMs. They think the attached video is the Shirley St footage, which it isn't.

Thanks for clarifying Peralta

I knew that the footage was incorrect it was that ping a couple hours after they referred to at the Tallow ridge area I was looking at, was that what you meant?

I remember initially they kept misreporting times and got the AM and PM mixed up just had not seen it put like this with the couple hours after part.

The police had his final ping Saturday as below which is why I am questioning that other reporting if it may be an additional ping they advised.

On Monday, police confirmed the final ping from Mr Hayez' phone was recorded at 1.42pm on June 1, more than 12 hours after he was last seen leaving the Cheeky Monkeys bar in Byron Bay's CBD. The location of that final ping could not be determined.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...mps-up-around-cape-byron-20190618-p51yrh.html

 

[SouthAussie]

The cap, the phone, the pings after the police said he would of been in the water, the fact that the people that know him best don’t think he would of ever climb the cliffs...to me this all leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

I pray for this to be solved for the family.

@Rocket333 100% agree with you on the phone being most likely Theo’s, seriously what are the chances. Too much of a MASSIVE coincidence!!!

Yes, well. It was also a massive coincidence that an accused pedo was supposed to visit William Tyrrell's house at the time he went missing. But guess what ... he seems to now have been cleared of any involvement, despite a shaky alibi.

Follow enough cases on here and you will see massive coincidences all over the place.

If the Coroner believes the Oppo phone could be Theo's, s/he will investigate further. But, to me, it seems that it is a no brainer to tell if a phone belongs to someone or if it does not. The police have the resources to bust open a phone and see the internals. If the phone resembled Theo's. His phone is crucial to working out his demise, and everyone knows that.

 

[Rocket333]

The cap, the phone, the pings after the police said he would of been in the water, the fact that the people that know him best don’t think he would of ever climb the cliffs...to me this all leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

I pray for this to be solved for the family.

@Rocket333 100% agree with you on the phone being most likely Theo’s, seriously what are the chances. Too much of a MASSIVE coincidence!!!

It sure is. Oppos may be somewhat popular but a random one buried in sand at CC in July, that the family say is the same as Theo’s, is worthy of far more discussion. Convince us it wasn’t his.

 

[mussopossum]

The Coroner's task is solely to rule on a death. How the death happened, what can be done to avoid such a death happening again.

During coronial proceedings, a coroner can compel 'witnesses' to speak - unless they are going to implicate themselves in a crime.

The Coroner's finding may be that a death happened, may be that it is 'open' (inconclusive that a death happened, or how it happened), may find that a death occurred at the hands of a person(s) unknown or known.

Then a Coroner can make recommendations - such as how to avoid a death happening again, or that a person(s) be investigated more closely by the police (the Coroner won't name the person(s) in their final report, but the police will know who it is, and you can generally tell who it is by the gist of the proceedings).

This is the basic outline of the purpose of an inquest.

If you read a few coronial reports that can be found on the Coroner's Court site, you will get an idea of what happens in an inquest.
At this link ... Coronial findings

I will add to SA post, After following the WT case so long and it being referred to the coroner I did start to do a lot of findings readings on both NSW and QLD cases.

It gives you an understanding of how it all works and to somewhat to what can be expected.

Some of the bigger cases are a good start to read as you will remember them in MSM and what information was released to what you then hear in the findings.

I think most of us following the William Tyrrell case were blown away by the number of pieces of information and POI / witnesses released at the first parts of inquest this year and it just shows how much police keep secret for tactical reasons.

So if anyone is interested I would recommend doing some findings readings. It can be like getting a good book that you cannot put down though as its quite fascinating and informative.

 

[Rocket333]

Yes, well. It was also a massive coincidence that an accused pedo was supposed to visit William Tyrrell's house at the time he went missing. But guess what ... he seems to now have been cleared of any involvement, despite a shaky alibi.

Follow enough cases on here and you will see massive coincidences all over the place.

If the Coroner believes the Oppo phone could be Theo's, s/he will investigate further. But, to me, it seems that it is a no brainer to tell if a phone belongs to someone or if it does not. The police have the resources to bust open a phone and see the internals. If the phone resembled Theo's. His phone is crucial to working out his demise, and everyone knows that.

Keep going. Forget the police. We’re already getting the picture that they aren’t playing, for reasons only known to them. We’re also hearing ongoing tales of their indifference when potential evidence has been brought into the cop shop, and their post investigation disinterest. They could have chucked the phone in a bag in a box and done nothing for all we know. The pod alerted us to the phone and that the police weren’t interested in it. Forget them as they haven’t given a public statement on it so we don’t actually know what they have on the cap or phone. Detect for yourself. That oppo phone in the sand at CC in July .... ?

 

[SouthAussie]

Keep going. Forget the police. We’re already getting the picture that they aren’t playing, for reasons only known to them. We’re also hearing ongoing tales of their indifference when potential evidence has been brought into the cop shop, and their post investigation disinterest. They could have chucked the phone in a bag in a box and done nothing fit all we know. The pod alerted us to the phone and that the police weren’t interested in it. Forget them as they haven’t given a public statement on it so we don’t actually know what they have on the cap or phone. Detect for yourself. That oppo phone in the sand at CC in July .... ?

Exactly ... found in July. While the investigation was still underway.

Please do not tell me how to post and think. I have been on WS for a very long time and know how to do that.

 

[SouthAussie]

I will add to SA post, After following the WT case so long and it being referred to the coroner I did start to do a lot of findings readings on both NSW and QLD cases.

It gives you an understanding of how it all works and to somewhat to what can be expected.

Some of the bigger cases are a good start to read as you will remember them in MSM and what information was released to what you then hear in the findings.

I think most of us following the William Tyrrell case were blown away by the number of pieces of information and POI / witnesses released at the first parts of inquest this year and it just shows how much police keep secret for tactical reasons.

So if anyone is interested I would recommend doing some findings readings. It can be like getting a good book that you cannot put down though as its quite fascinating and informative.

Exactly. I highly recommend also that some research is done into how things in an investigation are carried out. And how the families and the public are completely unaware of what has been going on behind the scene. Reading inquest reports and following inquests is an eye opener.

 

[mussopossum]

Exactly. I highly recommend also that some research is done into how things in an investigation are carried out. And how the families and the public are completely unaware of what has been going on behind the scene. Reading inquest reports and following inquests is an eye opener.

I might also add that they can be quite confronting and upsetting in some cases too when to do with DOCS, deaths of children and domestic violence resulting in a death etc so please keep in mind if anyone chooses to read up that they can be quite upsetting sometimes if you have children or have lost someone to suicide or illness.

 

[Rocket333]

Exactly ... found in July. While the investigation was still underway.

Please do not tell me how to post and think. I have been on WS for a very long time and know how to do that.

So have I so I respectfully request the same of you. The police also concluded that Theo most likely fell from the cliff. By your logic about the phone, a cliff fall is therefore what we should be respecting. The police actually haven’t released any info or findings. Anything is still possible, and whilst I’m keen for the coronial investigation, it will be awhile away.

 

[T-dawg420]

The phone in the sand eliminates a cliff climb.

if Theo was my blood, I would want a lot better explanation to how the police came to their theory of Theo going off the cliffs through misadventure!

I would simply not take what they say as gospel. If the cops were so sure of misadventure, why all the secrecy and withholding information? Surely if it was that cut and dry they would just say here’s the evidence, this is why we aren’t investigating anymore.....and it’s gotta be more than simply ‘his phone had a weakened signal around the lighthouse so he must have climbed the hills and gone in the water!

Where’s the actual evidence, cos apart from a 1.50 YT video and a couple of not very long msgs in French, where’s the cold hard proof Theo was actually there at CC himself, yet we have to believe in what the cops come up with?

A hat of almost the same description was found, a phone with a similar description was found on the path Theo’s phone took. His path alters dramatically after a 7 mins pause at Tennyson street. Because of the family’s investigation, and not the cops, we know the path his phone took. The spot he stops for 7 mins is a know hot spot for people to hang out and approach people, locals won’t even go there from all reports cos of the potential danger! He stopped he for 7 mins and then altered his path!

Just that statement there is reason enough to think something other than Theo going there and misadventure on his own caused his disappearance!

So why not investigate more?

I’m not here to bash the cops, but they must be held accountable to the highest standards of practice, esp when it involves people lives! And just in my humble opinion, it seems to me they might have dropped the ball ‘assuming’ misadventure, when there is evidence it could have been so much worse!

IMO

 

[Aron.Wor]

Keep going. Forget the police. We’re already getting the picture that they aren’t playing, for reasons only known to them. We’re also hearing ongoing tales of their indifference when potential evidence has been brought into the cop shop, and their post investigation disinterest. They could have chucked the phone in a bag in a box and done nothing for all we know. The pod alerted us to the phone and that the police weren’t interested in it. Forget them as they haven’t given a public statement on it so we don’t actually know what they have on the cap or phone. Detect for yourself. That oppo phone in the sand at CC in July .... ?

I generally point put at this stage to people touting conspiracy theories (and I myself have hinted questioned the police force many times); that limiting one's focus with such a theory is generally a wasted effort. To consider such a theory, we must believe that all the police involved with handling the phone, and all those police that knew about it would turn a blind eye. Now mothers and fathers are police officers and keeping evidence such as TH's phone does not only have legal ramifications but also personal ones. To suggest police would willingly keep such evidence quiet is very far fetched. If there is some operating in the BB community, do you really think the police force is going to protect a killer?

I'm quite disappointed to see such a limited perspective and that a member of this group would tell another to open their eyes to a conspiracy theory. The thing that makes this page great is the various perspectives and avenues for information and opinion. It's just like GM saying I know what happened, TH ran off and joined a hippy cult.
Not cool.

 

[T-dawg420]

Just to add... most police forces don’t have the ‘added baggage’ that Byron bay has..
What I mean by this is almost it’s whole existence is based on the tourism dollar as well as being one of the most expensive real estate markets in Australia.
The town has a vested interest in keeping the dark side hidden.
Actually they have a massive reason to keep up the appearance that Byron bay is this peace loving, all inclusive utopia of beauty..
imagine what a manslaughter/murder of a backpacker in that town would do to tourism. Esp if the dark underbelly was known and it turned out to be a local (or like the visitors from Lismore and Gold Coast etc)
I mean the drug ICE is half the price in byron of anywhere else in Australia apparently (according to podcast)
I can’t remember her name but a lady on the podcast says they’ve been covering it up for years!

Edit to ad - it’s all IMO and I am Not saying an actual cover up, but maybe more they had a reason to not look into Theo’s disappearanceto the degree it deserved, and assuming instead of investigating

 

[Aron.Wor]

Just to add... most police forces don’t have the ‘added baggage’ that Byron bay has..
What I mean by this is almost it’s whole existence is based on the tourism dollar as well as being one of the most expensive real estate markets in Australia.
The town has a vested interest in keeping the dark side hidden.
Actually they have a massive reason to keep up the appearance that Byron bay is this peace loving, all inclusive utopia of beauty..
imagine what a manslaughter/murder of a backpacker in that town would do to tourism. Esp if the dark underbelly was known and it turned out to be a local (or like the visitors from Lismore and Gold Coast etc)
I mean the drug ICE is half the price in byron of anywhere else in Australia apparently (according to podcast)
I can’t remember her name but a lady on the podcast says they’ve been covering it up for years!

Oh, I have taken this into account. The police force were accused of doing this during the Ivan Milat case by a person named Alister Shipsey. The allegation was that they framed IM for the murders because the Olympic games were coming to AUS and that the muders were chasing the $$ away.
Once again, imagine why some of these people joined the police force. Now consider that for this to work, all the members of the BB police would have to be in agreement, otherwise, there's no secrecy. All the coppers involved would have to comply with this rhetoric. The next thing we have to consider is that outside agencies are also part of the investigation, and one way or another if the BB police were withholding evidence, there is a chance they would be discovered. I mean there are a lot of reasons why this theory is questionable. Then we must consider the systems within the police force and justice departments and how it was decided to protect a potential killer, and how that works with other departments. It's an unlikely suggestion.

 

[T-dawg420]

I generally point put at this stage to people touting conspiracy theories (and I myself have hinted questioned the police force many times); that limiting one's focus with such a theory is generally a wasted effort. To consider such a theory, we must believe that all the police involved with handling the phone, and all those police that knew about it would turn a blind eye. Now mothers and fathers are police officers and keeping evidence such as TH's phone does not only have legal ramifications but also personal ones. To suggest police would willingly keep such evidence quiet is very far fetched. If there is some operating in the BB community, do you really think the police force is going to protect a killer?

I'm quite disappointed to see such a limited perspective and that a member of this group would tell another to open their eyes to a conspiracy theory. The thing that makes this page great is the various perspectives and avenues for information and opinion. It's just like GM saying I know what happened, TH ran off and joined a hippy cult.
Not cool.

Are we all suppose to just believe that Theo went off a cliff?

His own family don’t believe that.

Maybe having an open mind to everything (including possible conspiracy theories) isn’t a bad thing. It’s better than just sitting on our hands and doing nothing.

Why haven’t Theo’s family come out and taken what the police have said for gospel?

 

[BusterXP]

It sure is. Oppos may be somewhat popular but a random one buried in sand at CC in July, that the family say is the same as Theo’s, is worthy of far more discussion. Convince us it wasn’t his.

We don't know whether it was even an Oppo phone that was found.
We have one person saying that the phone found was 'the same as' Theo's.
It may be the same brand and it may not.
If it was Theo's phone then even in the absence of a sim the IMEI would be there hard coded on the phone hardware.