Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #3

[Rocket333]

Another interesting point to come out of Pod 6 was the ocean bioluminescence that drew that particular CC party (in the pod) to the water to watch the sparkles. Having seen this in Gladstone once, it is absolutely enticing and mesmerising. It could’ve occurred on the night Theo was there too, and drawn him down to the water to watch. Just noting.

 

[SouthAussie]

Some things to consider about phone given all the questions about sand and water:

Last GPS location was at 12.05 am Cosy Corner.

There was a ping at 12.56 am ‘near town’. Still appears to be Theo using phone and google maps.

After 2am, the phone was moved into a low signal area. Personally, I doubt it was buried in sand because it was likely no longer on beach and even if it was in sand, it was dug out shortly after. This also means it wasn’t in water.

After 4am, the phone was moved somewhere with a regular signal strength.

Around 6am, the phone exited sleep mode. Possibilities include it being checked, charged, moved to another tower range, Telstra automatically placing it in ‘active mode’, or alarm going off (must ask godfather and cousin if Theo was an early riser or ever set phone alarm).

Last ping was at 1.42pm on Cape Byron, not CC beach. Didn’t appear to have weak signal so not in sand or water.

Phone found in mid July was on CC beach.

Could not be Theo’s phone. Could be Theo’s phone but wiped clean of finger prints and DNA. Could be a new phone planted to look like Theo’s.

I wonder if, at 12:56am, Theo started heading up the road to the lighthouse.

I think a previous post of yours said that if his (or 'a') phone was underneath the tower the signal may have gone low (presumably due to tower height and the tower transmissions being sent outwards over distance).

 

[Harpboon]

I generally point put at this stage to people touting conspiracy theories (and I myself have hinted questioned the police force many times); that limiting one's focus with such a theory is generally a wasted effort. To consider such a theory, we must believe that all the police involved with handling the phone, and all those police that knew about it would turn a blind eye. Now mothers and fathers are police officers and keeping evidence such as TH's phone does not only have legal ramifications but also personal ones. To suggest police would willingly keep such evidence quiet is very far fetched. If there is some operating in the BB community, do you really think the police force is going to protect a killer?

I'm quite disappointed to see such a limited perspective and that a member of this group would tell another to open their eyes to a conspiracy theory. The thing that makes this page great is the various perspectives and avenues for information and opinion. It's just like GM saying I know what happened, TH ran off and joined a hippy cult.
Not cool.

So you are saying that the police can never be wrong? Why even hold an coronal inquest than hey?
Come on!!! We are all humans, even police officers, and you know what? We all make mistakes, even the LE sometimes.

Like @T-dawg420 said if Theo was your family wouldn’t you want to be 100% sure of what the police where saying actually happened. Having all these questions left unanswered to me just says not everything was looked into. We wouldn’t have anything to discuss here if everything was answered. I mean they didn’t even check the caves under the cliffs!!

Can the police legally withhold Theo’s phone from his family @Rocket333 and say it wasn’t his even if they do if fact believe it is?

 

[Harpboon]

I generally point put at this stage to people touting conspiracy theories (and I myself have hinted questioned the police force many times); that limiting one's focus with such a theory is generally a wasted effort. To consider such a theory, we must believe that all the police involved with handling the phone, and all those police that knew about it would turn a blind eye. Now mothers and fathers are police officers and keeping evidence such as TH's phone does not only have legal ramifications but also personal ones. To suggest police would willingly keep such evidence quiet is very far fetched. If there is some operating in the BB community, do you really think the police force is going to protect a killer?

I'm quite disappointed to see such a limited perspective and that a member of this group would tell another to open their eyes to a conspiracy theory. The thing that makes this page great is the various perspectives and avenues for information and opinion. It's just like GM saying I know what happened, TH ran off and joined a hippy cult.
Not cool.

 

[Harpboon]

As musso and I have tried to point out, it is eye opening when a person realises how much police have done behind the scene - without family knowledge, without public knowledge.

I sometimes wonder if the police have discovered exactly why Theo was at the headlands that night - and they are not revealing that info due to Theo being an adult and, as such, he is entitled to privacy in his personal life.

To not even disclose it to the family though? Don’t you think if they had this knowledge they would let them know so they could get some closure?

 

[feralflower]

Let's go back to June, where the search was focused between the Pass and Wategos. This is where I am confused as initially the search was focused on the west side of The Cape.

A few sources such as this one Police frustrated over missing information on young missing backpacker Theo Hayez in Australia – NewsBeezer made statements as below. The last ping was said to be from this area, west side. "May have been" seems to cover a very large area as when family was taken to the lighthouse it is the Cosy Corner side of the cliffs they were taken to where they believe it all happened.

The focus will be on the area between Wategos Beach and The Pass on the west side of Cape Byron, as the telecommunications records said that this may have been the site of Hayez's last activity on his cell phone before the Battery was empty. <<< as per newsbreezer link

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Just wanted to say I thought the podcast was very well done, informative and insightful.

I was the one who was concerned after first episode but it went from strength to strength after that.

The involvement, compassion and commitment of the community and family is commendable.

I even admire David Murray’s integrity for not dramatising elements for effect and click bait, and choosing to stop until there are developments.

There are a lot of podcasts out there. IMO, this one turned out to be one of the good ones I hope it leads to more leads!

 

[Harpboon]

Also does anyone know if Belgium police can start there own investigation into Theo’s disappearance? Maybe they would be able to get clearance for the data drop to see who’s phone if any, matched Theo’s route that night.

Because the BB LE aren’t treating this as an open case why would they request a data drop and as pod 6 stated times a ticking when it comes to accessing this data.

 

[SouthAussie]

To not even disclose it to the family though? Don’t you think if they had this knowledge they would let them know so they could get some closure?

I don't know.

If it involved another (innocent) person - then maybe not.
If it involved a suicide note or something like that - then maybe yes.

 

[Harpboon]

Yes, well. It was also a massive coincidence that an accused pedo was supposed to visit William Tyrrell's house at the time he went missing. But guess what ... he seems to now have been cleared of any involvement, despite a shaky alibi.

Follow enough cases on here and you will see massive coincidences all over the place.

If the Coroner believes the Oppo phone could be Theo's, s/he will investigate further. But, to me, it seems that it is a no brainer to tell if a phone belongs to someone or if it does not. The police have the resources to bust open a phone and see the internals. If the phone resembled Theo's. His phone is crucial to working out his demise, and everyone knows that.

Ive followed a lot of cases, on here and not on here thank you very much

 

[SouthAussie]

Just wanted to say I thought the podcast was very well done, informative and insightful.

I was the one who was concerned after first episode but it went from strength to strength after that.

The involvement, compassion and commitment of the community and family is commendable.

I even admire David Murray’s integrity of not dramatising elements for effect and click bait, and choosing to stop until there are developments.

There are a lot of podcasts out there. IMO, this one turned out to be one of the good ones I hope it leads to more leads!

Yes, I agree. David left so many scenarios open - from plentiful sharks, to possible others involved, to most anything, really.

 

[SouthAussie]

Ive followed a lot of cases, on here and not on here thank you very much

You're most welcome.

 

[SouthAussie]

Let's go back to June, where the search was focused between the Pass and Wategos. This is where I am confused as initially the search was focused on the west side of The Cape.

A few sources such as this one Police frustrated over missing information on young missing backpacker Theo Hayez in Australia – NewsBeezer made statements as below. The last ping was said to be from this area, west side. "May have been" seems to cover a very large area as when family was taken to the lighthouse it is the Cosy Corner side of the cliffs they were taken to where they believe it all happened.

The focus will be on the area between Wategos Beach and The Pass on the west side of Cape Byron, as the telecommunications records said that this may have been the site of Hayez's last activity on his cell phone before the Battery was empty. <<< as per newsbreezer link

I think that is a useful thing to look at. Something is wrong between the GPS data and the telecomms data. And from what I have read (and posted links to) the GPS data can be out by significant distances, as much as the telecomms data from a single tower can be.

That side of the headlands is also the general vicinity where The Judge was found ..... and also where the ceremony for Theo was held (which bears some significance to me).

 

[Aron.Wor]

So you are saying that the police can never be wrong? Why even hold an coronal inquest than hey?
Come on!!! We are all humans, even police officers, and you know what? We all make mistakes, even the LE sometimes.

Like @T-dawg420 said if Theo was your family wouldn’t you want to be 100% sure of what the police where saying actually happened. Having all these questions left unanswered to me just says not everything was looked into. We wouldn’t have anything to discuss here if everything was answered. I mean they didn’t even check the caves under the cliffs!!

Can the police legally withhold Theo’s phone from his family @Rocket333 and say it wasn’t his even if they do if fact believe it is?

@Harpboon, I'm sorry are you asking me? If so, it seems you're confused and in the mood for confrontation. What I'm suggesting is that a theory about keeping evidence hidden or suppressed, or disrupting the investigation for the benefit of tourism is not likely.

 

[Harpboon]

@Harpboon, I'm sorry are you asking me? If so, it seems you're confused and in the mood for confrontation. What I'm suggesting is that a theory about keeping evidence hidden or suppressed, or disrupting the investigation for the benefit of tourism is not likely.

Im not in the mood for confrontation, quite the opposite
Just quite surprised actually. This is websleuths isn’t it?

 

[BusterXP]

I'd think that if Telstra and other provider data is to be accessed re others in the area it should be done soon.
IIRC, retention is for 2 years.

 

[Harpboon]

Im not in the mood for confrontation, quite the opposite
Just quite surprised actually. This is websleuths isn’t it?

@Harpboon, I'm sorry are you asking me? If so, it seems you're confused and in the mood for confrontation. What I'm suggesting is that a theory about keeping evidence hidden or suppressed, or disrupting the investigation for the benefit of tourism is not likely.

We are allowed to disagree on here aren’t we? and not all have the same opinion, without being accused of wanting “confrontation”?

 

[mussopossum]

Some of the early reports that had am and pm mixed up came from Belgian newspapers and not from disclosed Police reports.
We know that there were information leaks. Some of those leaks may have had crossed wires as they were reported to the media or an error may have been made when publishing.
I recall questioning the time error when I first saw it in a Belgian newspaper.

Got love MSM

Im putting it in my timeline anyhow as a possible

 

[mussopossum]

The cap, the phone, the pings after the police said he would of been in the water, the fact that the people that know him best don’t think he would of ever climb the cliffs...to me this all leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

I pray for this to be solved for the family.

@Rocket333 100% agree with you on the phone being most likely Theo’s, seriously what are the chances. Too much of a MASSIVE coincidence!!!

I tell you what, If it is and I say IS because it is likely still locked up at the cop station, there will be some serious asses that need flogging.

 

[mussopossum]

if Theo was my blood, I would want a lot better explanation to how the police came to their theory of Theo going off the cliffs through misadventure!

I would simply not take what they say as gospel. If the cops were so sure of misadventure, why all the secrecy and withholding information? Surely if it was that cut and dry they would just say here’s the evidence, this is why we aren’t investigating anymore.....and it’s gotta be more than simply ‘his phone had a weakened signal around the lighthouse so he must have climbed the hills and gone in the water!

Where’s the actual evidence, cos apart from a 1.50 YT video and a couple of not very long msgs in French, where’s the cold hard proof Theo was actually there at CC himself, yet we have to believe in what the cops come up with?

A hat of almost the same description was found, a phone with a similar description was found on the path Theo’s phone took. His path alters dramatically after a 7 mins pause at Tennyson street. Because of the family’s investigation, and not the cops, we know the path his phone took. The spot he stops for 7 mins is a know hot spot for people to hang out and approach people, locals won’t even go there from all reports cos of the potential danger! He stopped he for 7 mins and then altered his path!

Just that statement there is reason enough to think something other than Theo going there and misadventure on his own caused his disappearance!

So why not investigate more?

I’m not here to bash the cops, but they must be held accountable to the highest standards of practice, esp when it involves people lives! And just in my humble opinion, it seems to me they might have dropped the ball ‘assuming’ misadventure, when there is evidence it could have been so much worse!

IMO

I am going to say this, still with my utmost respect to our LE.

Do we think the investigation would have been done any differently if the missing person was an Ausralian citizen?

It is a genuine question,

Could there be more international hurdles with a missing person being from a different country?

Possible witnesses or POI from other countries that may be the coroner can assist more with?