Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #3

[Aron.Wor]

Not really, although I imagine there would be more information on the person's past, providing more clues perhaps.
I would depend on their socioeconomic status I would suggest, or age. A citizen of TH's age missing in Aus. I guess a look into the person's records would provide insight into the family situation, their economic status, relationship status, and decide if it's worth actually looking into. They could be a runaway. It would also depend on pressure from the family and the media.

 

[mussopossum]

As musso and I have tried to point out, it is eye opening when a person realises how much police have done behind the scene - without family knowledge, without public knowledge.

I sometimes wonder if the police have discovered exactly why Theo was at the headlands that night - and they are not revealing that info due to Theo being an adult and, as such, he is entitled to privacy in his personal life.

Another thought is that maybe there are POI or witnesses we do not know about that may be underage, in witness protection, or have some reason that information can't be disclosed at this time due to privacy or their safety.

Highly unlikely however the underage part could be likely especially as many teens under 18 have been sighted at the end of Tennyson,

 

[mussopossum]

As musso and I have tried to point out, it is eye opening when a person realises how much police have done behind the scene - without family knowledge, without public knowledge.

I sometimes wonder if the police have discovered exactly why Theo was at the headlands that night - and they are not revealing that info due to Theo being an adult and, as such, he is entitled to privacy in his personal life.

Another thought is that maybe there are POI or witnesses we do not know about that may be underage, in witness protection, or have some reason that information can't be disclosed at this time due to privacy or their safety.

Highly unlikely however the underage part could be likely especially as many teens under 18 have been sighted at the end of Tennyson,

Just wanted to say I thought the podcast was very well done, informative and insightful.

I was the one who was concerned after first episode but it went from strength to strength after that.

The involvement, compassion and commitment of the community and family is commendable.

I even admire David Murray’s integrity for not dramatising elements for effect and click bait, and choosing to stop until there are developments.

There are a lot of podcasts out there. IMO, this one turned out to be one of the good ones I hope it leads to more leads!

I think David Murray was definitely the right person for the podcast.

His voice just fit into everything and I really enjoyed listening to him tell Theos story.

I believe he and Ken have been such an asset and help for Theo and his family. I am so happy they continue to help find Theo even after the podcast is over.

 

[mussopossum]

Also does anyone know if Belgium police can start there own investigation into Theo’s disappearance? Maybe they would be able to get clearance for the data drop to see who’s phone if any, matched Theo’s route that night.

Because the BB LE aren’t treating this as an open case why would they request a data drop and as pod 6 stated times a ticking when it comes to accessing this data.

Im not sure if the Belgium police could acess data here via their own investigation as it would be Australian Telcos and a different jurisdiction.

I could be wrong but just thought being in a different country they may not have that authority unless it is data from another Belgium who was there at the time and has returned home.

 

[sparks030405]

Update timeline Theo after leaving CM:
- 23:07 he exited CM
- 23:08 he stops briefly in Kingsley
- 23:08 ->11:13 walks to the end of Tennyson
- 23:13 stops for 7 minutes
- 23:21 left the slab at the end of Tennyson and went to Massinger Street at 6km/hr
- then walked up hill from Massinger Str, to Milne St. at 4,5 km/hr
- 23: 30 reaches Milne Str.
- then enters Milne track and reaches T-junction in 5 minutes at 7,5km/hr
- then walks for 8 minutes at a little more than 4 km/hr
- stears around Tommy's invisible camp site
- location where Theo's cap was found = between Tommy's camp site and the beach
- 23:48 reaches the beach through a tiny path at a gully with an abandoned camp site
- Theo looks up WU again and walks for 8 minutes to CC at 6km/hr
- 23:56 (+/-) walks up hill and stops for 5,5 minutes in a hidden clearing at about 20m from the sand
- 00:03 Theo / Theo's phone goes back to the beach in less than 2 minutes
- 00:05 GPS tracing stops
- but the phone continued sending signals till the afternoon of June 1st
- 00:20 sends Messenger message to friend Lou in French about U2 Tour: ugh, in September or something?'
- 00:23 watches YouTube Burger quiz for 1 minute and 50 seconds
- 00:55 sends WA message
- 00:56 sends WA message to stepsister in Belgium of a kiss emoji and 'merci'
- 01:01 Theo's phone zoomed in on the location of his hostel on GM, the phone GPS appears to have still been off because the location of the phone was not recorded
- +/- 02:00 - +/- 06:00 phone in 'sleep' mode
- between 2 and 4am the final Google location was recorded "near town"
- +/- 04:00 moon rises and there is moonlight
- +/- 06:00 phone exits 'sleep' mode (what triggered this?)
- +/- 13:00 of June 1st, last ping, originating from Cape Byron, not from CC

Sources: Podcasts. In red: update from Podcast6, at 41:00 and other

@SouthAussie ; please feel free to add info in the timeline the coming days as I might not be able to do so. I'll notify as soon as I will be able to pick up again. Thanks!

23.21-23.30 needs updating to reflect that he went to the intersection of Cowper St/Carlyle St and then backtracks to Marvell St. That is important, as he may have met someone at the intersection who went with him to CC. The waiting in Tennyson may have been for that person to give directions, or others cricket pitch area took him to meet next person at Cowper/Carlyle.

 

[SouthAussie]

Im not sure if the Belgium police could acess data here via their own investigation as it would be Australian Telcos and a different jurisdiction.

I could be wrong but just thought being in a different country they may not have that authority unless it is data from another Belgium who was there at the time and has returned home.

An interesting thing about the Belgian police .... they were scheduled to come to Australia for 10 days. But they left after 5 days.


"The date of their departure is not yet fixed. They [could] leave tomorrow or at the start of next week," a Belgian police spokesman told Belgian paper Le Soir on Wednesday.
Three Belgian officers, including one from a missing persons unit, are expected to assist with the search for about 10 days Le Soir reported.
A spokesman for NSW Police said they were working closely with their Belgian counterparts and liaising with the Hayez family.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...h-for-missing-backpacker-20190627-p521w5.html

However, Belgian police officers who came to Byron Bay to join the investigation were there for only five days — too short a time, the family believe.
My Hayez said this was not due to the Belgian police on the ground.
"They had pressure from their superiors," he said, adding that they continue to work with Australian authorities.
Theo Hayez's parents still have faith they'll find him — and that he may be held captive

 

[SouthAussie]

Another thought is that maybe there are POI or witnesses we do not know about that may be underage, in witness protection, or have some reason that information can't be disclosed at this time due to privacy or their safety.

Highly unlikely however the underage part could be likely especially as many teens under 18 have been sighted at the end of Tennyson,

There certainly seems to be a lot that the police have been told and have had to verify.
Perhaps information they have received and verified has helped them form their conclusion, and that is why the case has been handed to the Coroner. (And perhaps why, too, the Belgian police only stayed for 5 days.)

I think that if Theo bought any mind-altering drugs from anyone that night, that may be information that could be kept under wraps and have helped lead police to their conclusion, and helped lead the Belgian police to return home early.


BBM
Mr Hayez said there had been hundreds of statements submitted.
"Now you have to sort, see the veracity and verify the truth. It does not happen like in books or a television series.
"All this research takes time."
Theo Hayez's parents still have faith they'll find him — and that he may be held captive

 

[Rocket333]

23.21-23.30 needs updating to reflect that he went to the intersection of Cowper St/Carlyle St and then backtracks to Marvell St. That is important, as he may have met someone at the intersection who went with him to CC. The waiting in Tennyson may have been for that person to give directions, or others cricket pitch area took him to meet next person at Cowper/Carlyle.

Great mapping.
The pause for 1 minute at the T intersection of the fire trail and the beach track where he looks at GMs is not included yet.

 

[Rocket333]

This mapping (chiatos/sparks) shows walking to the end of Tennyson, giving strength to the proposal that Theo may have simply been cutting through YAK on his way home. He stops and turns around there. We have since learned he paced on the two concrete slabs before heading to Tallow. Was on his way home and the group at the rec fields intervened? Offered to show him how to get to Tallow beach so he could see the lighthouse and whatever was going on, and stroll home from there?

 

[BusterXP]

Mr Hayez said there had been hundreds of statements submitted.
"Now you have to sort, see the veracity and verify the truth. It does not happen like in books or a television series.

That number of statements indicates, to me, that there may be statements from people who saw Theo along the way.
I'd expect statements from WU and persons staying there, CM and those there at the time, the worker in the bottle shop, some volunteers, family members giving background info etc and some involved in the search. I wouldn't expect as many as stated.

 

[BusterXP]

This mapping (chiatos/sparks) shows walking to the end of Tennyson, giving strength to the proposal that Theo may have simply been cutting through YAK on his way home. He stops and turns around there. We have since learned he paced on the two concrete slabs before heading to Tallow. Was on his way home and the group at the rec fields intervened? Offered to show him how to get to Tallow beach so he could see the lighthouse and whatever was going on, and stroll home from there?

I think that's a possibility. I thought, when I first saw that Theo went in that direction, that he was heading over to the beach possibly to chill a bit then take the beach walk back to the hostel.
You can see in satellite view of maps that there appears to be some trails that give access through the bush.

 

[SouthAussie]

Great mapping.
The pause for 1 minute at the T intersection of the fire trail and the beach track where he looks at GMs is not included yet.

I did add your info (as Chiatos asked me to, until they return) ... back in post #470 - noted in red.
I have now added sparks info as well - hopefully in the right place - again, noted in red.
I have also added Peralta's times for the drop in phone signal, as per post #528.


- 23:07 he exited CM
- 23:08 he stops briefly in Kingsley
- 23:08 ->11:13 walks to the end of Tennyson
- 23:13 stops for 7 minutes
- 23:21 left the slab at the end of Tennyson (went to the intersection of Cowper St/Carlyle St and then backtracks to Marvell St) and went to Massinger Street at 6km/hr
- then walked up hill from Massinger Str, to Milne St. at 4,5 km/hr
- 23: 30 reaches Milne Str.
- then enters Milne track and reaches T-junction in 5 minutes at 7,5km/hr
- stops at T junction for a minute and searches WU hostel
- then walks for 8 minutes at a little more than 4 km/hr
- steers around Tommy's invisible camp site
- location where Theo's cap was found = between Tommy's camp site and the beach
- 23:48 reaches the beach through a tiny path at a gully with an abandoned camp site
- Theo looks up WU again and walks for 8 minutes to CC at 6km/hr
- 23:56 (+/-) walks up hill and stops for 5,5 minutes in a hidden clearing at about 20m from the sand
- 00:03 Theo / Theo's phone goes back to the beach in less than 2 minutes
- 00:05 GPS tracing stops
- but the phone continued sending signals till the afternoon of June 1st
- 00:20 sends Messenger message to friend Lou in French about U2 Tour: ugh, in September or something?'
- 00:23 watches YouTube Burger quiz for 1 minute and 50 seconds
- 00:55 sends WA message
- 00:56 ping location point “near town”
- 00:56 sends WA message to stepsister in Belgium of a kiss emoji and 'merci'
- 01:01 Theo's phone zoomed in on the location of his hostel on GM, the phone GPS appears to have still been off because the location of the phone was not recorded
- +/- 02:00 - +/- 06:00 phone in 'sleep' mode – drop in phone signal from 02:00-04:00
- +/- 04:00 moon rises and there is moonlight
- +/- 06:00 phone exits 'sleep' mode (what triggered this?)
- 13:42 of June 1st, last ping, originating from Cape Byron, not from CC

 

[Rocket333]

That number of statements indicates, to me, that there may be statements from people who saw Theo along the way.
I'd expect statements from WU and persons staying there, CM and those there at the time, the worker in the bottle shop, some volunteers, family members giving background info etc and some involved in the search. I wouldn't expect as many as stated.

Well that’s good that they’ve obtained so much from the people around Theo at that time. The police still concluded that the most likely scenario was a cliff accident, so I’m left with the impression that nothing too concerning came from those statements. Seems there’s no hint of wrong doing by others.

 

[Rocket333]

I did add your info (as Chiatos asked me to, until they return) ... back in post #470 - noted in red.
I have now added sparks info as well - hopefully in the right place - again, noted in red.


- 23:07 he exited CM
- 23:08 he stops briefly in Kingsley
- 23:08 ->11:13 walks to the end of Tennyson
- 23:13 stops for 7 minutes
- 23:21 left the slab at the end of Tennyson (went to the intersection of Cowper St/Carlyle St and then backtracks to Marvell St) and went to Massinger Street at 6km/hr
- then walked up hill from Massinger Str, to Milne St. at 4,5 km/hr
- 23: 30 reaches Milne Str.
- then enters Milne track and reaches T-junction in 5 minutes at 7,5km/hr
- stops at T junction for a minute and searches WU hostel
- then walks for 8 minutes at a little more than 4 km/hr
- steers around Tommy's invisible camp site
- location where Theo's cap was found = between Tommy's camp site and the beach
- 23:48 reaches the beach through a tiny path at a gully with an abandoned camp site
- Theo looks up WU again and walks for 8 minutes to CC at 6km/hr
- 23:56 (+/-) walks up hill and stops for 5,5 minutes in a hidden clearing at about 20m from the sand
- 00:03 Theo / Theo's phone goes back to the beach in less than 2 minutes
- 00:05 GPS tracing stops
- but the phone continued sending signals till the afternoon of June 1st
- 00:20 sends Messenger message to friend Lou in French about U2 Tour: ugh, in September or something?'
- 00:23 watches YouTube Burger quiz for 1 minute and 50 seconds
- 00:55 sends WA message
- 00:56 ping location point “near town”
- 00:56 sends WA message to stepsister in Belgium of a kiss emoji and 'merci'
- 01:01 Theo's phone zoomed in on the location of his hostel on GM, the phone GPS appears to have still been off because the location of the phone was not recorded
- +/- 02:00 - +/- 06:00 phone in 'sleep' mode – drop in phone signal from 02:00-04:00 (Peralta's post #528)
- +/- 04:00 moon rises and there is moonlight
- +/- 06:00 phone exits 'sleep' mode (what triggered this?)
- 13:42 of June 1st, last ping, originating from Cape Byron, not from CC

Oh great - thanks. That intersection represents to me a defining and possibly fatalistic moment for him, hence always remembering it.

 

[mussopossum]

Ah Ken Gamble on 60 min - Repeat but he was the one who helped bring down those online scammers in Manilla. I like this guy, sorry not Theo related but Ken related

 

[Jenz]

Keep going. Forget the police. We’re already getting the picture that they aren’t playing, for reasons only known to them. We’re also hearing ongoing tales of their indifference when potential evidence has been brought into the cop shop, and their post investigation disinterest. They could have chucked the phone in a bag in a box and done nothing for all we know. The pod alerted us to the phone and that the police weren’t interested in it. Forget them as they haven’t given a public statement on it so we don’t actually know what they have on the cap or phone. Detect for yourself. That oppo phone in the sand at CC in July .... ?

Could this be because Detectives were brought up from Sydney?

This may have, from then on been out of the hands of local police?

Keep going. Forget the police. We’re already getting the picture that they aren’t playing, for reasons only known to them. We’re also hearing ongoing tales of their indifference when potential evidence has been brought into the cop shop, and their post investigation disinterest. They could have chucked the phone in a bag in a box and done nothing for all we know. The pod alerted us to the phone and that the police weren’t interested in it. Forget them as they haven’t given a public statement on it so we don’t actually know what they have on the cap or phone. Detect for yourself. That oppo phone in the sand at CC in July .... ?

Live: NSW Now: Homicide police join backpacker search, Mascot Towers to temporarily reopen

 

[Jenz]

To not even disclose it to the family though? Don’t you think if they had this knowledge they would let them know so they could get some closure?

IMO...and i'm no expert by no means, but maybe there is info that is best not released to anyone in the best interest of the coronial inquest...and for closure for Theo's family?

 

[Jenz]

I did add your info (as Chiatos asked me to, until they return) ... back in post #470 - noted in red.
I have now added sparks info as well - hopefully in the right place - again, noted in red.
I have also added Peralta's times for the drop in phone signal, as per post #528.


- 23:07 he exited CM
- 23:08 he stops briefly in Kingsley
- 23:08 ->11:13 walks to the end of Tennyson
- 23:13 stops for 7 minutes
- 23:21 left the slab at the end of Tennyson (went to the intersection of Cowper St/Carlyle St and then backtracks to Marvell St) and went to Massinger Street at 6km/hr
- then walked up hill from Massinger Str, to Milne St. at 4,5 km/hr
- 23: 30 reaches Milne Str.
- then enters Milne track and reaches T-junction in 5 minutes at 7,5km/hr
- stops at T junction for a minute and searches WU hostel
- then walks for 8 minutes at a little more than 4 km/hr
- steers around Tommy's invisible camp site
- location where Theo's cap was found = between Tommy's camp site and the beach
- 23:48 reaches the beach through a tiny path at a gully with an abandoned camp site
- Theo looks up WU again and walks for 8 minutes to CC at 6km/hr
- 23:56 (+/-) walks up hill and stops for 5,5 minutes in a hidden clearing at about 20m from the sand
- 00:03 Theo / Theo's phone goes back to the beach in less than 2 minutes
- 00:05 GPS tracing stops
- but the phone continued sending signals till the afternoon of June 1st
- 00:20 sends Messenger message to friend Lou in French about U2 Tour: ugh, in September or something?'
- 00:23 watches YouTube Burger quiz for 1 minute and 50 seconds
- 00:55 sends WA message
- 00:56 ping location point “near town”
- 00:56 sends WA message to stepsister in Belgium of a kiss emoji and 'merci'
- 01:01 Theo's phone zoomed in on the location of his hostel on GM, the phone GPS appears to have still been off because the location of the phone was not recorded
- +/- 02:00 - +/- 06:00 phone in 'sleep' mode – drop in phone signal from 02:00-04:00
- +/- 04:00 moon rises and there is moonlight
- +/- 06:00 phone exits 'sleep' mode (what triggered this?)
- 13:42 of June 1st, last ping, originating from Cape Byron, not from CC

 

[bearbear]

There certainly seems to be a lot that the police have been told and have had to verify.
Perhaps information they have received and verified has helped them form their conclusion, and that is why the case has been handed to the Coroner. (And perhaps why, too, the Belgian police only stayed for 5 days.)

I think that if Theo bought any mind-altering drugs from anyone that night, that may be information that could be kept under wraps and have helped lead police to their conclusion, and helped lead the Belgian police to return home early.


BBM
Mr Hayez said there had been hundreds of statements submitted.
"Now you have to sort, see the veracity and verify the truth. It does not happen like in books or a television series.
"All this research takes time."
Theo Hayez's parents still have faith they'll find him — and that he may be held captive

yes thats very possible, police may have found evidence that confirms theo likely fell off a cliff, either intentionally or by accident, and they are witholding details to protect theos or a witnesses privacy, makes sense especially if there was a note?

 

[Jables333]

Also does anyone know if Belgium police can start there own investigation into Theo’s disappearance? Maybe they would be able to get clearance for the data drop to see who’s phone if any, matched Theo’s route that night.

Because the BB LE aren’t treating this as an open case why would they request a data drop and as pod 6 stated times a ticking when it comes to accessing this data.

Are there any Belgian's on this forum? Does anyone know if the Belgian police are still working on this case?