Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019

[mussopossum]

How about another hypothetical scenario - in that there is/are Belgian nationals who are suspects? That would have to involve Belgian police to assist with.

Not saying I have any theory about such suspect (s). Just trying to the interpret the info that you have got. Do you mean your source is in "law enforcement"?

I never even thought about this TBH but you are right. If and Belgium nationals were involved or have information directly or indirectly related to this case it could be a reason why the Belgium police have arrived. Good point IMOO

 

[Aron.Wor]

Enforcement no, crimminal investigation side. As i mentioned nothing to do with Theo just a general Hypo from them in chatting, as to why police from a different country may become involved and come to Australia. I asked them the question more as I was wondering what made this so different to other missing persons cases involving an international person. That was just their example response. When you look at even Ivan Milat and the backpackers who were sadly murdered on Australian soil, i dont beleive was any police / law enforcement from those countries here (could be wrong) but that also was a very long time ago as an example. I could be wrong re Milat victims? My point is and no disrepsect to Theo and his family, what has triggered Belgium police to come to Australia, what makes this missing persons case so different? I dont know of any other case where the police have come to Australia when a foreigner is missing.

No, I can't recall any foreign authorities coming to Australia to aid task force Air (Milat), but there may have been a focus on why the Australian police force took so long to move on Milat. Perhaps that's why the Belgium police are here so quickly. I couldn't do anything than speculate though.

 

[SouthAussie]

I never even thought about this TBH but you are right. If and Belgium nationals were involved or have information directly or indirectly related to this case it could be a reason why the Belgium police have arrived. Good point IMOO

Seems to me that if it is just information .... that can be, and has been, communicated through long distance means.
It is interesting how the articles about the Belgian police are written. The observer capacity that the Belgian team will be using here in Australia.

They would certainly need Australian police approval to be actively involved in the investigation inside our country, and even to be privy to inside information once they get here.


"Investigators from Tweed Byron Police District and the NSW Police Force SCC Homicide Squad have been working closely with their Belgian counterparts following the disappearance of Theo Hayez," the spokesperson said.

"Belgium Police have sought authority to travel to Australia to support the ongoing investigation in an observer capacity.
"All lines of inquiry are being pursued in the investigation into the disappearance of Theo Hayez.
Belgian police to join search for Theo Hayez

 

[mussopossum]

Missing student’s ‘desecrated' remains found in yard

Not Theo related however information relating to the phone data in one location at the time as the perp and victim was clocked same time with phone location / data. Would police legally be able to or in general have the means to see this type of data of other phones where Theos final phone ping was found?

 

[SouthAussie]

Missing student’s ‘desecrated' remains found in yard

Not Theo related however information relating to the phone data in one location at the time as the perp and victim was clocked same time with phone location / data. Would police legally be able to or in general have the means to see this type of data of other phones where Theos final phone ping was found?

Yes. In the Karen Ristevski case, police were allowed phone ping data about her husband ... his phone was pinging in the same vicinity as her phone - far from their home - when he said he wasn't there.

Recently I read that police had all the phone ping data from a tower, to identify phones near where and when a person was murdered. I now can't remember where I saw that info though.

 

[SouthAussie]

The Belgian police officers who are going to assist in the investigation into the disappearance of 18-year-old Belgian Théo Hayez in Australia have arrived in Byron Bay.

Two investigators from the federal police of Halle-Vilvoorde and a member of the Missing Persons Unit were sent to Australia to assist the Australian police in their search for the young Belgian, who has been missing since 31 May. It is a mission of ten days.

"We have worked with the Belgian authorities from the beginning and I look forward to working closely with the Belgian police officers in the coming days," said Byron Bay police inspector, Matt Kehoe.

"Unfortunately, we do not yet know what happened to Théo, but we remain committed to providing the answers that the family needs so much," said Inspector Kehoe.

Belgische politie (en tv-ster) helpen bij zoektocht naar Théo Hayez

 

[SouthAussie]

There is another backpacker missing .. this one in Perth.

When I was reading about this, I noticed a piece further into the article that states that the Belgian police had been working with the Aussie police to work out Theo's last movements. Presumably, the Belgian police have better access to the people (and perhaps their telecomms services) that Theo was messaging on the night that he went missing.


Belgian police had been working alongside Australian detectives in Theo's hometown to help piece together the teenager's last movements.
German backpacker, 28, goes missing in chilling echo of Theo Hayez's mysterious disappearance - as the tourist's final moments before he vanished are revealed

 

[mussopossum]

There is another backpacker missing .. this one in Perth.

When I was reading about this, I noticed a piece further into the article that states that the Belgian police had been working with the Aussie police to work out Theo's last movements. Presumably, the Belgian police have better access to the people (and perhaps their telecomms services) that Theo was messaging on the night that he went missing.


Belgian police had been working alongside Australian detectives in Theo's hometown to help piece together the teenager's last movements.
German backpacker, 28, goes missing in chilling echo of Theo Hayez's mysterious disappearance - as the tourist's final moments before he vanished are revealed

Will be interesting to watch this one to see if German police become involved in this latest missing person as they have the Belgium police with Theo. Totally makes sense the Belgiums maybe having better access investigation wise and power to have access to certain areas of social media etc, I would have thought though... still, would they need to come to AU by having further access in Belgium or could that information not be carried out over tele / internet communication? My thoughts are still, they are here to gather evidence or investigate a crime for a Belgium National. He is still missing to us with no suspected foul play (that we are told) I just feel there is so much more IMHO. The sad thing is, It has been so long now and the weather up here cold with lots rain and not favorable conditions for anyone who has injured themselves or may be laying injured somewhere waiting for help. Heartbroken for his family.

 

[MFH]

There is another backpacker missing .. this one in Perth.

When I was reading about this, I noticed a piece further into the article that states that the Belgian police had been working with the Aussie police to work out Theo's last movements. Presumably, the Belgian police have better access to the people (and perhaps their telecomms services) that Theo was messaging on the night that he went missing.


Belgian police had been working alongside Australian detectives in Theo's hometown to help piece together the teenager's last movements.
German backpacker, 28, goes missing in chilling echo of Theo Hayez's mysterious disappearance - as the tourist's final moments before he vanished are revealed

Does he have a thread?

 

[SouthAussie]

Will be interesting to watch this one to see if German police become involved in this latest missing person as they have the Belgium police with Theo. Totally makes sense the Belgiums maybe having better access investigation wise and power to have access to certain areas of social media etc, I would have thought though... still, would they need to come to AU by having further access in Belgium or could that information not be carried out over tele / internet communication? My thoughts are still, they are here to gather evidence or investigate a crime for a Belgium National. He is still missing to us with no suspected foul play (that we are told) I just feel there is so much more IMHO. The sad thing is, It has been so long now and the weather up here cold with lots rain and not favorable conditions for anyone who has injured themselves or may be laying injured somewhere waiting for help. Heartbroken for his family.

It is hard to tell why the Belgian police are here. I wish I could work it out.

It is completely not usual for any other police to come and help deal with a potential crime/missing person in another country. When a person travels to another country, it is known that you will then fall under the laws and ways of that country.

The only exception that immediately springs to mind is Scotland Yard's involvement in the case of missing Maddie McCann.

 

[SouthAussie]

Does he have a thread?

Not that I can find. We can always start one, if it is wanted.

 

[Via Marple]

Missing student’s ‘desecrated' remains found in yard

Not Theo related however information relating to the phone data in one location at the time as the perp and victim was clocked same time with phone location / data. Would police legally be able to or in general have the means to see this type of data of other phones where Theos final phone ping was found?

Yes. In the Karen Ristevski case, police were allowed phone ping data about her husband ... his phone was pinging in the same vicinity as her phone - far from their home - when he said he wasn't there.

Recently I read that police had all the phone ping data from a tower, to identify phones near where and when a person was murdered. I now can't remember where I saw that info though.

I would think that they need a suspect first, before they track down the suspect's phone locations and match them to the victim's.

Otherwise even if they can get all other phone data from the same towers, there would be too many phones to process. They have to narrow down to one phone to search.

MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

I would think that they need a suspect first, before they track down the suspect's phone locations and match them to the victim's.

Otherwise even if they can get all other phone data from the same towers, there would be too many phones to process. They have to narrow down to one phone to search.

MOO

I am not sure how the police got a warrant for full disclosure of tower info (mobile users), in the case I was reading about. I would have thought that identification of a suspect(s)/missing person(s) would be needed for that. Otherwise it seems that it would be a fishing expedition.

I will have a quick look to see if I can find the article again.

Yes, I am sure the police had a mountain of mobile numbers to look through. I guess they thought it was worth it, in that particular case.

 

[Via Marple]

It is hard to tell why the Belgian police are here. I wish I could work it out.

It is completely not usual for any other police to come and help deal with a potential crime/missing person in another country. When a person travels to another country, it is known that you will then fall under the laws and ways of that country.

The only exception that immediately springs to mind is Scotland Yard's involvement in the case of missing Maddie McCann.

Scotland Yard had to go there because the Brits don't trust the Portuguese, right? Of course it's complicated....

 

[SouthAussie]

Scotland Yard had to go there because the Brits don't trust the Portuguese, right? Of course it's complicated....

Yes, IIRC the lead Portuguese investigator was removed from the case due to deemed incompetency (he has since gone on to write many articles about his vague and varying thoughts of who the perp is).

 

[Via Marple]

The FB group's FAQ has stated that the police have obtained all the social media records they are looking for. That should include those WhatsApp metadata, and the last number that Theo was corresponding with.

There is no further disclosure and police is not saying they need to locate anyone.

If there is a suspect that is it. IMOO

The detective is insisting that they don't yet know what happened to Theo, though. And they will continue searching around the more dangerous areas, still at the same headland area before they suspended the search.

The Belgian police officers who are going to assist in the investigation into the disappearance of 18-year-old Belgian Théo Hayez in Australia have arrived in Byron Bay.

Two investigators from the federal police of Halle-Vilvoorde and a member of the Missing Persons Unit were sent to Australia to assist the Australian police in their search for the young Belgian, who has been missing since 31 May. It is a mission of ten days.

"We have worked with the Belgian authorities from the beginning and I look forward to working closely with the Belgian police officers in the coming days," said Byron Bay police inspector, Matt Kehoe.

"Unfortunately, we do not yet know what happened to Théo, but we remain committed to providing the answers that the family needs so much," said Inspector Kehoe.

Belgische politie (en tv-ster) helpen bij zoektocht naar Théo Hayez

 

[SouthAussie]

Okay, I am not having a lot of luck in finding the specific case I stumbled on the other day - about police using a tower dump (all the metadata on a mobile phone tower) to help in a murder case.

I can only find, at the moment, a few US and Canadian articles about this type of police action. Not specifically what I was looking for, but it shows how using tower dumps (as opposed to requesting info about one or two specific mobile numbers) is sometimes used.

One article:
How “cell tower dumps” caught the High Country Bandits—and why it matters
Fishing expeditions can pay dividends—but do they need a warrant?
How “cell tower dumps” caught the High Country Bandits—and why it matters


Another article (there are quite a few out there):
“Tower dump” production orders occur when police organizations request the records pertaining to every user whose cellular phone connects to a certain tower or towers. Each tower serves a specified geographical area, and each time a phone connects to that tower, a record is produced identifying the phone that connected, which can then be linked back to the account and account holder. In effect, these records can be used, through tower dump production orders, to identify all users in the geographic area serviced by any particular tower.

In R v. Rogers Communications, the Peel Regional Police obtained a production order against Telus and Rogers as part of the investigation of a string of jewelry store robberies. The order sought production of all of the data from more than 21 Telus towers and 16 Rogers towers.
Tower dump production orders: Restricting police access to cellular records in R v. Rogers Communications - Lexology

 

[SouthAussie]

The FB group's FAQ has stated that the police have obtained all the social media records they are looking for. That should include those WhatsApp metadata, and the last number that Theo was corresponding with.

There is no further disclosure and police is not saying they need to locate anyone.

If there is a suspect that is it. IMOO

The detective is insisting that they don't yet know what happened to Theo, though. And they will continue searching around the more dangerous areas, still at the same headland area before they suspended the search.

Yes, that is why it is curious to me as to why the Belgian police are here. Just 3 of them. Not a significant search team, and only one from their missing persons squad, and just here apparently to 'observe'.

Just looking for some good reasons, is all.

 

[mussopossum]

Yes, that is why it is curious to me as to why the Belgian police are here. Just 3 of them. Not a significant search team, and only one from their missing persons squad, and just here apparently to 'observe'.

Just looking for some good reasons, is all.

Me too as the "Just because" reason isnt enough for me "LOL"

 

[Via Marple]

Yes, that is why it is curious to me as to why the Belgian police are here. Just 3 of them. Not a significant search team, and only one from their missing persons squad, and just here apparently to 'observe'.

Just looking for some good reasons, is all.

Sometimes on WS I wonder whether I am sleuthing a case, or sleuthing what cops are sleuthing! Lol