Australia - Toyah Cordingley, 24, body found on beach, 22 October 2018 #2

[BreakingNews]

I just watched that heartbreaking video again, where Toyah's mum talks about their family, the moment they found Toyah, etc.
In that video, at about 6:28 she says "Snake, Jack and I made the decision to see Toyah one last time, so I could get some closure saying our final good byes. We went together, and we were glad we did even if it made me more confused and less wanting to accept this reality."
I now wonder again about Toyah's condition when she was found by her dad and about her injuries. I always had imagined that she must have been disfigured, maybe beaten in the face violently or something like that. (Poor Sophie Colombet who was violently murdered in Brisbane a few years ago, basically beaten to death and left in a total mess, by that guy who was high on drugs comes into my mind here). I think I thought that because it was said that Toyah suffered "violent, visible injuries" and her dad sad that "she was messed up". It doesn't fit with Vanessa saying, seeing Toyah made her more confused and less wanting to accept this reality. That sounds more like injuries elsewhere. Not the face/head. It sound like Toyah might have looked like she was sleeping when they saw her in the morgue for that last, sad goodbye.
So, maybe no killing by someone high on drugs, not even remembering what he did? Something very personal maybe? Someone who thought he loved her, but killing her so no one else can have her, but leaving her beautiful face intact? What are your thoughts about this?

I have a friend who works for an undertaker. She often collects bodies from the death scene. She is brilliant in what she does and on the rare occasions a body is not able to be made beautiful, the family are not allowed to see them. It is amazing what can be done. Even my own Dad was facially disfigured at death due to falls with severe cuts and an eye not able to be shut. But before his funeral he looked just like my Dad again without any injuries. Sorry to sound so gruesome, but I know what these people can do. Maybe her Mum, step dad and brother saw her just before her funeral, like I did. Wonder why the step sister wasn't with them??? It really is closure in seeing the body, but I guess in Vanessa's case, she was confused as to why this could happen and who did it.

AIMHO

 

[BreakingNews]

6 days since the Police released the images of 68 vehicles. I wonder how many of the drivers have come forward by now. I'm hopeful that we will hear of an arrest soon or at least a POI pulled in for questioning.

But remember in the Baden-Clay murder, although police suspected him on day 1, he wasn't arrested until 7 weeks later. Although he was interviewed in the early days which was not hidden from the public. I doubt that Cairns police had such a clear idea of POI from day 1 with Toyah. Would have had to wait for autopsy, DNA, cause of death etc. But I still wonder why the msm zoomed in on those scratches at her funeral. And I wonder why bf and dog seemed like a shag on a rock outside the funeral.
MOO

 

[sleepinoz]

But remember in the Baden-Clay murder, although police suspected him on day 1, he wasn't arrested until 7 weeks later. Although he was interviewed in the early days which was not hidden from the public. I doubt that Cairns police had such a clear idea of POI from day 1 with Toyah. Would have had to wait for autopsy, DNA, cause of death etc. But I still wonder why the msm zoomed in on those scratches at her funeral. And I wonder why bf and dog seemed like a shag on a rock outside the funeral.
MOO

Bayden Clay was relatively fast for an arrest, Ristevski was almost 2 years and they knew it was him. I could list others although I'm just trying to show that it doesn't always happen quickly. We have to be patient, they will cross all their t's and dot their i's before they arrest anyone.

 

[Rock79]

Your theory might not fly ... what about female children they don’t become murders ... men’s violence is about gender inequality

That’s a pretty broad statement... I’d argue that men’s violence tends to be more related to their inability to process emotions and pressure in the right manner, and using physicality as a release. A man generally doesn’t inflict violence upon a woman (or a man for that matter) because she’s a woman, it tends to relate more to a loss of control, either over a situation or their own emotions. And in my experience, female children who are abused/neglected/mistreated tend to internalise their experiences and punish themselves for what happened to them, whereas males tend to act out and punish others...

 

[Rock79]

Exactly. No matter what has happened to us in childhood, it is not an excuse for brutal rape or murder, nor anything else. As adults, we are responsible for our own behaviour. The blame game is simply a mask for an immature person who won't take responsibility for themselves.

I did try to reply to something earlier - about this. went to edit, forgot, went to shop, it was all stuffed & my comp crashed - don't try it at home But yer, my point was - how about dysfunctional relationships with the father, bullying, trauma, parental alcohol & drug abuse, neglect, separation from one parent, death of a parent, the list just goes on... Can't blame the mother for "most" of them, i wouldn't think JMO

Absolutely agree, and I wouldn’t even say that dysfunctional relationships between sons and mothers create anywhere near the issues poor relationships between sons and fathers cause, or just generally poor home circumstances for that matter. The point was that it’s too easy to just blame one gender for our issues, when most of the evidence points to our childhood experiences playing a major part in offending as adults.

 

[PolyDot]

That’s a pretty broad statement... I’d argue that men’s violence tends to be more related to their inability to process emotions and pressure in the right manner, and using physicality as a release. A man generally doesn’t inflict violence upon a woman (or a man for that matter) because she’s a woman, it tends to relate more to a loss of control, either over a situation or their own emotions. And in my experience, female children who are abused/neglected/mistreated tend to internalise their experiences and punish themselves for what happened to them, whereas males tend to act out and punish others...

That’s a pretty broad statement... I’d argue that men’s violence tends to be more related to their inability to process emotions and pressure in the right manner, and using physicality as a release. A man generally doesn’t inflict violence upon a woman (or a man for that matter) because she’s a woman, it tends to relate more to a loss of control, either over a situation or their own emotions. And in my experience, female children who are abused/neglected/mistreated tend to internalise their experiences and punish themselves for what happened to them, whereas males tend to act out and punish others...

Gender based violence is higher in societies where there is less gender equality .. men do inflict violence on women because she’s a woman .. power and control .. 61 women have been killed this year by partners , ex partners or family members .. not from loss of control .. but because they are exerting control and power over women ..
I think Toyah ‘s murder may well be another example of this ...

 

[Rock79]

Gender based violence is higher in societies where there is less gender equality .. men do inflict violence on women because she’s a woman .. power and control .. 61 women have been killed this year by partners , ex partners or family members .. not from loss of control .. but because they are exerting control and power over women ..
I think Toyah ‘s murder may well be another example of this ...

I think we’d both be assuming in a big way if we professed to knowing the real reasons behind all of this mess, but with only 30% of murder victims being women, I’m not sure we could draw the conclusion that we have a gender-based violence issue - we certainly do have a general violence problem though. Unless of course, you mean that the gender of murderers is generally male..

 

[Rock79]

Not sure if this is of use to anyone - just threw it together to show the different locations I've seen mentioned as I couldn't keep track. The times listed are just standard driving times taken straight from Google, and the map is facing towards the coast (rather than north/south).

 

[iailwa]

Absolutely agree, and I wouldn’t even say that dysfunctional relationships between sons and mothers create anywhere near the issues poor relationships between sons and fathers cause, or just generally poor home circumstances for that matter. The point was that it’s too easy to just blame one gender for our issues, when most of the evidence points to our childhood experiences playing a major part in offending as adults.

Oh i thought you wrote most serial killers are the result of poor relationships with their mothers? could be wrong tho

BBM above - so are you referring to how society blames males for our issues? What issues exactly? Violence against women? It's true men do perform more violent acts, and as you say there are environmental factors that create the adult, but we can't forget the physiological stuff too - like testosterone - leading to bigger size, strength etc. Men can take advantage of women, if they choose to, because of these. So a combo of nature & nuture perhaps? I feel silly writing that last line lol. that's what scientists have been telling us along ???

 

[BelaMcK]

I think that wording is odd too - or just confused that someone could actually do this horrible crime? Or confused no apparent injuries? Which flies in the face of report of ‘visible and violent’.

I think it just means her face wasn't touched. It seems to me that the injuries were mostly done to the lower half of her body, like an extremely violent rape? Men can and often do rape a girl with more than just their appendage, they can use bottles and sticks and all sorts of things to cause a lot of terrible damage.

 

[BelaMcK]

If you start here, there's a couple of pages about it in Thread #1

Australia - Toyah Cordingley, 24, body found on beach, 22 October 2018

Thanks for this. I hadn't read that thread, it was quite interesting. The scratch looks like it's from wire, like maybe he was doing some fencing or something. In itself it doesn't look suspicious to me.

 

[iailwa]

That’s a pretty broad statement... I’d argue that men’s violence tends to be more related to their inability to process emotions and pressure in the right manner, and using physicality as a release. A man generally doesn’t inflict violence upon a woman (or a man for that matter) because she’s a woman, it tends to relate more to a loss of control, either over a situation or their own emotions. And in my experience, female children who are abused/neglected/mistreated tend to internalise their experiences and punish themselves for what happened to them, whereas males tend to act out and punish others...

You bet your asre men inflict violence on women because they are women. You reckon they'll just as equally take the chance to be beat up another male (& be beaten by them?), in preference? I don't think so. JMO

 

[iailwa]

I think we’d both be assuming in a big way if we professed to knowing the real reasons behind all of this mess, but with only 30% of murder victims being women, I’m not sure we could draw the conclusion that we have a gender-based violence issue - we certainly do have a general violence problem though. Unless of course, you mean that the gender of murderers is generally male..

BBM Is that in Australia? We do have gender based violence - men are more likely to be violent.

 

[iailwa]

Not sure if this is of use to anyone - just threw it together to show the different locations I've seen mentioned as I couldn't keep track. The times listed are just standard driving times taken straight from Google, and the map is facing towards the coast (rather than north/south).

Great map, thanks

 

[BelaMcK]

Oh i thought you wrote most serial killers are the result of poor relationships with their mothers? could be wrong tho

BBM above - so are you referring to how society blames males for our issues? What issues exactly? Violence against women? It's true men do perform more violent acts, and as you say there are environmental factors that create the adult, but we can't forget the physiological stuff too - like testosterone - leading to bigger size, strength etc. Men can take advantage of women, if they choose to, because of these. So a combo of nature & nuture perhaps? I feel silly writing that last line lol. that's what scientists have been telling us along ???

Agreed. Testosterone is a very volatile hormone. Men tend to commit more violent crime because of not having it in check and I would bet that if you look at women who commit violent crime and test their hormone levels you may very likely see that person has elevated testosterone levels. IMO it's not a blame game, most men are fine and most women are fine, but some are clearly not, and especially with sexual things it is far far far more common for men to commit violent sexually-related crimes. It's just how it is and it's not putting men down to say so.

 

[Jennifer17]

BBM Is that in Australia? We do have gender based violence - men are more likely to be violent.

Yes, although men kill men too, 93.5% of murders of females are by men.

 

[iailwa]

Agreed. Testosterone is a very volatile hormone. Men tend to commit more violent crime because of not having it in check and I would bet that if you look at women who commit violent crime and test their hormone levels you may very likely see that person has elevated testosterone levels. IMO it's not a blame game, most men are fine and most women are fine, but some are clearly not, and especially with sexual things it is far far far more common for men to commit violent sexually-related crimes. It's just how it is and it's not putting men down to say so.

Yes, and i feel sorry for the men who are decent in our society too... poor things, especially at the moment!

 

[iailwa]

Yes, although men kill men too, 93.5% of murders of females are by men.

exactly, I didn't mean men are not violent toward one another, although god knows how i worded it lol

 

[Jennifer17]

exactly, I didn't mean men are not violent toward one another, although god knows how i worded it lol

I was agreeing with you.

 

[BelaMcK]

Yes, and i feel sorry for the men who are decent in our society too... poor things, especially at the moment!

Yes! I am never going to be 'anti men' and I hate it when you see news headlines saying things like 'men are the problem' every time a poor woman is murdered. I talk about it with my soon to be husband all the time (even this morning). He is such a gentleman, and his father is beautiful, the kindest sweetest man you could ever meet. And then look at Toyah's family. Her dad hasn't said much but his pain is clear to see. Her step-dad posts a lot on FB, he clearly loved her, and that man that is always in the news who seems to be some sort of community leader. You can see he is crushed by her death. I would never blame good men for what some monsters do. I sometimes think that I don't even know if they're human, the people who do things like this. I just think what kind of person does that? Not anyone who is normal, and that's a different conversation.

A lot of crimes like this are repeat offenders. We have been saying for so long already that the judicial system needs an overhaul, and nothing ever gets done about it. Rape and abuse type crimes need a much much harsher penalty.

I've seen a case where a guy got let off, by a female judge, for raping a young teenage girl in an alley behind a club and even sodomising her I believe:

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