Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

[Dotta]

In addition to the crucifixes, being found naked in separate rooms, the article also gives more info about the plumber's comments (discussed earlier in the thread):

'Very, very scared': Sources describe interactions with Saudi sisters in months before 'unusual' deaths

The women are believed to have died about a month before their bodies were found in June in a Sydney apartment.

www.abc.net.au

"Untoward", "bad vibe"

What can all these mean??

 

[vls12345]

"Untoward", "bad vibe"

What can all this mean??

I have no idea.

The more I read, the more confusing it all is.

 

[ElGato]

"Untoward", "bad vibe"

What can all these mean??

The mind can go in many directions...perhaps they held up crucifixes as they cowered together in a corner?

It actually really bothers me when people who are probably displaying signs of mental distress are demonized by the people who encounter them.

IMO, someone should have called in a female Muslim social worker or settlement counsellor.

JMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

*Every time I step away from this thread, somehow this tragic suspicious story becomes even more tragically mysterious. What’s next?

"I think the girls were very, very scared. Very afraid of something. And we're not sure whether it was something or someone, they didn't tell us," Mr Baird said.

'Very, very scared': Sources describe interactions with Saudi sisters in months before 'unusual' deaths

The women are believed to have died about a month before their bodies were found in June in a Sydney apartment.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Dotta]

*Every time I step away from this thread, somehow this tragic suspicious story becomes even more tragically mysterious. What’s next?

"I think the girls were very, very scared. Very afraid of something. And we're not sure whether it was something or someone, they didn't tell us," Mr Baird said.

'Very, very scared': Sources describe interactions with Saudi sisters in months before 'unusual' deaths

The women are believed to have died about a month before their bodies were found in June in a Sydney apartment.

www.abc.net.au

Somebody was spying on the sisters according to this report.

Also, their apartment was on the 1st floor, and easily accessible through the balcony in my opinion.

 

[ElGato]

Somebody was spying on the sisters according to this report.

Also, their apartment was on the 1st floor, and easily accessible through the balcony in my opinion.

View attachment 357242

Yet, when police came to inquire, they said 'we're fine go away'.

They kept living in this apartment, even though they believed someone was trying to harm them (for months, without succeeding), and they'd actually received notice to vacate.

They may have run out of money, but was it not possible to get some kind of work or emergency assistance, depending on their visa.

I would say, the fact they appear to have done nothing but hide in their apartment, is a sign of mental health problems affecting both of them, whether or not someone was actually spying on them.

Although they probably moved to Australia to be free, it seems to me they spent the last months of their lives in a prison.

Very sad.

JMO

 

[evilwise]

Somebody was spying on the sisters according to this report.

Also, their apartment was on the 1st floor, and easily accessible through the balcony in my opinion.

View attachment 357242

Yeah I could easily walk right up my truck and then vault onto that patio, probably even if the awning roof wouldn't support my weight. Now, could I do it without anyone noticing? I very much doubt it. Looks pretty busy.

Also, I dunno about that article. Is Apartment Building Manager Michael Baird an expert on suicide among Islamic women? For the authors to be framing him as such, especially in their concluding paragraph makes the whole article feel pretty sensationalist.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Yet, when police came to inquire, they said 'we're fine go away'.

They kept living in this apartment, even though they believed someone was trying to harm them (for months, without succeeding), and they'd actually received notice to vacate.

They may have run out of money, but was it not possible to get some kind of work or emergency assistance, depending on their visa.

I would say, the fact they appear to have done nothing but hide in their apartment, is a sign of mental health problems affecting both of them, whether or not someone was actually spying on them.

Although they probably moved to Australia to be free, it seems to me they spent the last months of their lives in a prison.

Very sad.

JMO

the notice to vacate was after they were dead.

 

[Dotta]

makes the whole article feel pretty sensationalist.

This whole terrible tragedy is turning into a circus.
But media are doing their job - although sensationalism is jarring.

 

[SouthAussie]

There are contradictory reports about the bodies of these young women; some sources, like the ones you shared, say the bodies have been released to the family and have been buried. The other sources say the bodies may not have been released to the family, and I know sources from further upthread definitely indicated the family in Saudi Arabia had zero interest in collecting/disposing of the remains. Major police backflip in baffling case of Saudi sisters found dead

The Muslim tradition is to bury their deceased as soon as possible. Within 24 hours, and definitely within 3 days. Then the family goes into 40 days of mourning. (Women cannot attend the funeral - although some modern societies allow them to go to the prayer service.)

Perhaps media sources are presuming their burial has now happened, while the police actually still maintain possession of the girls (for testing purposes). Or perhaps it has happened and the labs have enough samples for their testing.

The presence of crucifixes in their apartment seems to bolster the idea that they had renounced Islam. But perhaps the Muslim community still took over the funeral decisions?

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Learn about Islamic funerals, including funeral etiquette, traditions, rites, and more, courtesy of MemorialPlanning.com. See our Islamic funeral guide now.

www.memorialplanning.com

 

[ElGato]

the notice to vacate was after they were dead.

There is certainly confusion, but the DM has stated:

"May, 2022: The owner of their Canterbury unit filed a civil case against Asra on May 13.

That action was taken four weeks after sheriff's officers went to the apartment to serve the women with an eviction notice."

Saudi Arabian sisters found dead daughters of 'well-connected' family

Asra Abdullah Alsehli, 24, and Amaal Abdullah Alsehli, 23, were found dead in their first-floor unit in Canterbury on June 7. It is understood they came from a 'well-connected' Saudi Arabian family.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So, according to this, the eviction notice would have been served early April.

They were definitely being harrassed by their landlord, regardless of what else was happening. It's unclear when, exactly, they stopped paying rent, and how that relates to the complaints and welfare checks.

JMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Sources reveal contents of Canterbury apartment where Saudi sisters, Amaal and Asra Alsehli, found dead

 

[Arboreal]

The women were employed for five years in a refugee service that helped foreign nationals escape persecution and seek asylum.

The Newstimesuk Australia may also reveal that the older sister took an AVO in January 2019 against a 28-year-old man.

AVO was later withdrawn and dismissed.

In another court case, the owner of their Canterbury unit filed a civil lawsuit against the 23-year-old on May 13 this year.

Landlords can issue a legal warning notice through the civil court for additional rent before taking the next step to remove tenants from the property.

What Happened In UK - Read In A Second In NewsTimesUK

Read In A Second In NewsTimesUK

newstimesuk.com

Re: "The women were employed for five years in a refugee service that helped foreign nationals escape persecution and seek asylum."
This is likely, in fact highly likely, incorrect. It is now being repeated as fact, which it is not. For instance, al Mayadeen claims something along the same lines, "The women had been working with a refugee service for five years, assisting foreign nationals fleeing persecution and seeking asylum."
However, the Daily Mail says, "The women had for five years been engaged with a refugee service which helps foreign nationals escaping persecution and seeking asylum."
This is a clumsy way of saying that the sisters had been consulting with a refugee service that works with claimants, in this case the sisters, to guide their applications through the various Australian government administrative hurdles and processes of making a refugee or asylum claim. They were not working at, in the sense of being employed by, the refugee service, but were clients of it, using the service.
According to multiple, reputable sources, The ABC, SMH, Fairfax, the sisters had worked in construction as traffic controllers. Precisely, in what capacity is not yet public. However, some workmates have now spoken to the press, as have the sisters' first landlords. Interestingly, Rita, a woman the sisters' lived with when they first came to Australia and who was described as a friend and is likely their first landlord in Fairfield, said the police had not yet interviewed her or her family.

 

[Arboreal]

There is certainly confusion, but the DM has stated:

"May, 2022: The owner of their Canterbury unit filed a civil case against Asra on May 13.

That action was taken four weeks after sheriff's officers went to the apartment to serve the women with an eviction notice."

Saudi Arabian sisters found dead daughters of 'well-connected' family

Asra Abdullah Alsehli, 24, and Amaal Abdullah Alsehli, 23, were found dead in their first-floor unit in Canterbury on June 7. It is understood they came from a 'well-connected' Saudi Arabian family.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So, according to this, the eviction notice would have been served early April.

They were definitely being harrassed by their landlord, regardless of what else was happening. It's unclear when, exactly, they stopped paying rent, and how that relates to the complaints and welfare checks.

JMO

I do not think you can say they were being harassed by their landlord. There is a process and a sequence of events that must be followed if a landlord wants to evict a tenant for non-payment of rent. News outlets have stated the eviction was brought about through non payment of rent. but keep in mind, there rae others reasons for eviction. I recall some press reports quoting people from the building saying non-payment of rent was the cause. But again, this needs to be verified by finding reputable information sources. The DM is a news aggregator, mostly, and often gets things wrong.

 

[dotr]

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/crucifixes-found-in-sydney-home-of-dead-saudi-sisters/news-story/36e225b9334e54a2854c9a65e56020dc

''Another building worker told the ABC that he knew that the women had noticed a man watching their apartment from across the street.

The worker, who is familiar with the building's residents, said he'd also seen an unknown Middle Eastern man inside the building on two occasions in the months leading up to the sisters' death.

The building worker said when he asked the man which apartment he was from, the man gave the women's address.''

 

[Charlot123]

This case has become a question of who/which media outlet to believe.

The latest bombshell(s) from ABC, our national broadcaster Crucifixes uncovered in apartment where Saudi sisters found mysteriously dead

"Two young women do not commit suicide together unless they're doing it together. They don't get naked, they don't go to separate rooms, they don't die separately," he said.

Crucifixes are either gossip, or maybe, the girls were afraid of something (like, staying up late at night watching horror movies)
Really, imagine they are not from Saudi Arabia, imagine they are our kids, probably overprotected and younger than their age, older teenagers, in fact, left totally alone for the first time. What would they be doing?

My guesses:

1) computer games, media, internet

2) watching movies

And imagine these kids getting to our horror movies for the first time, like “Shining”, “Elm street”, etc.

What would happen?

They’d be scared, stay up at night to watch more movies and getting more scared. Maybe, indeed, getting paranoid because of lack of sleep. Either it is enhanced by energy drinks, or maybe, they abuse them to stay up at night. Crucifixes, if they indeed were there, are not the sign of conversion, as converts get huge new support group, and these girls were alone. They were…to protect against the movie horrors, I think? (This, if they, indeed, were in the room. I personally doubt).

What is interesting is the information coming from their friend Rita. She lived with them and has not been interviewed by the police. I am positive she’d know more. And if girls moved and got scared, it is important to know what changed.

About that plumber, it is interesting. “Bad vibes” could be either own neuroticism or very good perception skills.

 

[ElGato]

I do not think you can say they were being harassed by their landlord. There is a process and a sequence of events that must be followed if a landlord wants to evict a tenant for non-payment of rent. News outlets have stated the eviction was brought about through non payment of rent. but keep in mind, there rae others reasons for eviction. I recall some press reports quoting people from the building saying non-payment of rent was the cause. But again, this needs to be verified by finding reputable information sources. The DM is a news aggregator, mostly, and often gets things wrong.

I agree, I don't see it, objectively, as harrassment.

However, subjectively, that is probably how it felt. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it was no big deal to them, they were just waiting to implement their relocation plan, but were prevented because their take out food was poisoned.

 

[insearchoflight]

The detail revealed that they were found naked certainly adds a wrench in my suicide by starvation theory. Odd

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

IMO opinion it would be extremely rare and small chances for two people to attempt to make a suicide pact to take their own lives and complete doing so (ie pass away) at the same time whilst showing no signs of having done so. Likewise it doesn’t seem like a murder can be easily explained.

Even with things like really toxic poisons people are often in pain and reeling around in agony and vomiting ~ many forms of poisoning are so painful people use a second violent method to end their life.

So I’m still favouring carbon monoxide and faulty heating equipment with improper vent - or - a vent from somewhere else wrongly leaking into the apartmen.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I agree, I don't see it, objectively, as harrassment.

However, subjectively, that is probably how it felt. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it was no big deal to them, they were just waiting to implement their relocation plan, but were prevented because their take out food was poisoned.

Re harassment - Unless there are more complex dynamics such as prior to the non payment, the landlord had asked them to vacate on possibly unreasonable or unfair grounds ? Or the landlord had been behaving inappropriately somehow ? Or making complaints about their behaviour as tenants that could feel harassing ?