Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

[Dotta]

Here is the part I paid attention to in that article.

“Their rental agent Jay Hu revealed the women were originally 'good' tenants when they first moved in two years ago and had proof of 'ample' savings before falling behind on rent earlier this year.

'They stopped paying rent, so my colleague contacted them … they said the money would be coming soon,' he told the Daily Telegraph.

'But it still didn't come … a few more weeks went by and still not paid.'”

So I wonder if there was some support for them in SA, who since (lost money? Divorced? Got ill?)

That recently this year they lost their source of income?

Mystery man who was hit by restraining order by Saudi sister speaks

Asra Abdullah Alsehli, 24, and Amaal Abdullah Alsehli, 23, were found dead inside their Canterbury unit in Sydney's south-west on June 7, five years after they fled their homeland.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Or might have been blackmailed for whatever reason, draining their finances.

Somebody could have taken advantage of vulnerable women.

MOO

 

[Waverider]

So, is your conclusion that they were not asylum seekers? Or that the details about the eviction order are incorrect?

It seems to me, the fact they'd been served an eviction notice and apparently did nothing about it, but died 1 month later, is extremely pertinent. A massive coincidence if something else happened to them, such as CO2 poisoning, or homicide.

Also, I am a bit confused: what landlord calls police, when they have served an eviction notice two months prior, and there have been no signs of presence of the occupants for over a month?

Don't landlords have the right to enter a flat when there's no one apparently there? Surely landlords aren't always calling police when they want to enter a rental? (It seems unlikely the door was barricaded, no mention of police breaking down the door)...

Just wondering whether landlord had been in the flat before contacting police.

JMO

What I meant is that “asylum seeker” and “refugee” are terms that are used interchangeably in the media etc but they aren’t exactly the same. When you enter the country seeking asylum and before your claim has been assessed, you are an asylum seeker. After your claim has been assessed and it has been determined that you qualify and you are granted asylum, then your status becomes “refugee” and you can work etc. I was agreeing that it wouldn’t make sense to be evicted if the girls were still “asylum seekers”, but at this point they would have refugee status and the articles had used the wrong term. Hope that makes sense!

 

[Waverider]

Hi Waverider - that is really good information as the process is to people who have not used it, or who have no contact with it, somewhat opaque. What you say also provides more detail on the sisters' early days. Tak!

Pleasure!

 

[ClaireNC]

True, so many murders at the hands of partners and ex-partners, statistically the likelihood. Perhaps not in this case according to the DM.

Mystery man who was hit by restraining order by Saudi sister speaks

The man told the Daily Telegraph he struck up a non-romantic friendship with Asra after 'meeting her on the street', before a 'small fight' led her to contact police and take out an AVO.

The following quote from that article might offer insight into the dynamics of the sisters’ relationship:
“We had an argument, you know, like friends do...she was afraid so she contacted the police,' the man told the newspaper. 'Then the three of us went to the police, me, her and Amaal (Asra’s sister) and we told them what happened.

'We went to court [in 2019], the three of us and I told the judge what happened. Amaal explained it was just an argument and Asra was frightened but there was no problem anymore.' ”.

It sounds like the older sister, Asra, was particularly guarded, possibly overly so - verging on paranoia? The younger sister, Amaal, might have been more rational and was the one that smoothed things over.

 

[Dotta]

It sounds like the older sister, Asra, was particularly guarded, possibly overly so - verging on paranoia? The younger sister, Amaal, might have been more rational and was the one that smoothed things over.

"Guarded" as being older she felt responsible for a younger sibling?

 

[Waverider]

Here is the part I paid attention to in that article.

“Their rental agent Jay Hu revealed the women were originally 'good' tenants when they first moved in two years ago and had proof of 'ample' savings before falling behind on rent earlier this year.

'They stopped paying rent, so my colleague contacted them … they said the money would be coming soon,' he told the Daily Telegraph.

'But it still didn't come … a few more weeks went by and still not paid.'”

So I wonder if there was some support for them in SA, who since (lost money? Divorced? Got ill?)

That recently this year they lost their source of income?

Mystery man who was hit by restraining order by Saudi sister speaks

Asra Abdullah Alsehli, 24, and Amaal Abdullah Alsehli, 23, were found dead inside their Canterbury unit in Sydney's south-west on June 7, five years after they fled their homeland.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If they moved into the apartment two years before, then that would have been early 2020 around the beginnings of Covid. So maybe the lack of funds is more to do with the effects of Covid lockdowns? I can imagine they could have chewed through savings on rent during the first lockdown when they wouldn’t have been eligible for government support. After that, they could have been granted rental relief for a while, but now without government support or rental relief they could have been in financial strife as a result?

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I have had experience with the Saudis, even rich, although limited. Have many acquaintances who are Pakistani. Generally, the Bell curve works for any society. There are arranged marriages that work great, there are some that are horrible. Divorces are allowed. Kids usually stay with the dad. I strongly suspect that the dowry is returned in case of a divorce, though, and is an “insurance”. (We do need someone from Islamic culture to explain it to us better, considering that we are non-judgmental). Polygamy is allowed, but is very expensive as theoretically, the second wife can demand own household. In general, the female community is very strong and it is super important to have the support of your own. Women don’t work, but they can have own businesses from home, some very expensive.
Here, women do get westernized, but to keep in mind, these are not the poorest ones who immigrate. The most bizarre cases of abuse happen in poor provinces.

I personally think they were hyper vigilant because they thought they were under threat (and probably had some reason to feel this) Given that they are now dead, it may have been true. But also might have made them so distressed by the whole situation they took their own lives.

They made it to another country, so, at least one had strength and will. She might have been the source of paranoia, but more in common bipolar, than schizophrenic, way. JMO. The other girl, potentially, had better chance of integrating into any society, but I bet some folie a deux set up during COVID.

Still, I am 50/50 about suicide/homicide. Maybe with the demise of their “protector” at home and lack of funds, desperation set in. They were not used to being poor. At the same time, when the protector died, it would be easy to remove them, as no one cared.

Also: paranoia - no paranoia. To remember, they didn’t make constant, or even many, complaints. First, they complained, and there was a person standing there. So, not a hallucination, right? Also, maybe some delivery was stealing food? (Depends on food. Happened to me, and it was good food, but I didn’t complain). Anyhow, it is not unusual, that complaint. As to the guy who said they were friends…haven’t we heard this, “platonic”, in another thread? Probably, she liked attention, and he, being a young, unmarried man, maybe tried to grab her, or hug? I mean, something happened, he acknowledges, right? So, not that it is total paranoia. About the car being keyed, this was real, and honestly, the garage should have cameras to prevent such situations. Not too many complaints during these years.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I wonder if what the plumber noticed was an extra pipe into the bathroom somewhere? Which could have brought in a poisonous gas? I can't think of anything else that a plumber would notice.

do we know what job the plumber attended for ? For example if they were there to look at a blocked kitchen sink, they most likely wouldn’t have seen the bathroom or other areas and vice versa. Did the plumber think there was something odd about the living situation / the womens demeanour / or that there was something odd only in plumbing / building terms?

 

[bfew]

do we know what job the plumber attended for ? For example if they were there to look at a blocked kitchen sink, they most likely wouldn’t have seen the bathroom or other areas and vice versa. Did the plumber think there was something odd about the living situation / the womens demeanour / or that there was something odd only in plumbing / building terms?

What the plumber saw, could be the difference between a Coronial Inquest being held, and an open finding (cause unable to be determined) for the cause of death.

 

[Charlot123]

.

"Guarded" as being older she felt responsible for a younger sibling?

She looks more intense on the photo, not guarded.
And to be honest, since this man acknowledges that something happened, it would seem that Asra viewed it as friendship, or maybe, courtship. He, being young and probably frustrated, I suppose could have made certain advance, and she got upset. Anyhow, with them being dead, it is his version that stays, but it doesn’t mean that she was either paranoid or guarded.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Proof of ample savings at the beginning of their tenancy (if I have understood correctly) doesn’t mean they had any money two years later - they could have been paying college fees on top of other costly outgoings and may have had no paid employment during covid. Maybe the car was a rental? At the same time to me this doesn‘t seem like a suicide

 

[Kemug]

What I don't get about this ex friend/boyfriend is how they met. "On the street"? I would say that even normal Western liberated young women don't usually meet men on the street, unless they're maybe 14 or so. And Asra was the elder sister, seemingly serious and guarded, and brought up strictly and modestly. I'm not sure I believe this story of how they met.

 

[Waverider]

‘Timid and upset’: Mystery deepens over Saudi sisters’ deaths

Authorities still do not know how the sisters died after the results from toxicology tests and autopsies were inconclusive.

amp.smh.com.au

So, it looks like the story about the girls fleeing Saudi with $5000 during a holiday is incorrect. They allegedly travelled to Australia via Jordan and Dubai and we don’t know how much money they brought with them.

So, given that they came from a well-connected family, they may have actually come to Australia with A LOT of money or access to it, without them necessarily needing someone to send it to them. Perhaps the money they came with was running out after five years?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Or might have been blackmailed for whatever reason, draining their finances.

Somebody could have taken advantage of vulnerable women.

MOO

or scammed - so many different scams nowadays

 

[faceless poison]

A couple of points, from an Australian perspective:
-ABNs are very common and very normal, and they are necessary when subcontracting in industries such as construction and roadworks, as well as those in the gig economy. Getting an ABN is straightforward and nothing unusual in this country. I've got one, my husband has one, and I daresay most people I know have them. Being a subcontractor isn't a scam, it's like any other type of contract work in which you have flexibility and independence, with the drawback being you just have to factor in superannuation and tax to your rates.
-Carbon monoxide poisoning isn't really a thing here. In looking at that rental listing, it appears there's a gas bayonet on the divider wall bit between kitchen and living area, which is where you'd connect a gas heater if you had one. I gotta say gas heaters are pretty rare amongst the 20-something crowd anyway, but regardless I doubt one would cause CO poisoning in a ventilated unit (you can see the vents in the bulkhead bit above the kitchen). Plus, buildings here simply aren't as tightly sealed as in other countries, making the risk lower again. The only instances I can recall of CO poisoning here are from cases where people have brought a BBQ or patio heater inside, which you just wouldn't do in a unit.
-Going to the servo/cafe multiple times daily probably isn't as weird as it seems. I work next to a small supermarket and go there almost every day, often multiple times. Partially because I'm forgetful, partially because I want a drink or something so I just go and buy one. Also on that note: Wild Bean Cafe do surprisingly decent iced coffees.
-I prefer to get fuel at night too. Less 'people-y' and therefore less stressful, and I don't even live in a city.
-Their unit is pretty nice, and rent is not cheap. The pandemic hasn't been kind to many of us in terms of finances and if these women were getting takeaways and deliveries a lot they would run out of money pretty quickly. It's strange that it's not known what they were actually doing for work, or perhaps they weren't- which again would run them out of money pretty quickly.

In my opinion I'd lean toward suicides, especially if their visas are expiring, they had no money left, and no discernible way out. The whole situation is very sad regardless. What a waste of young lives.

 

[Dotta]

If it was a suicide - then why didn't they die holding hands?

Weren't they inseparable?

Together both in life and death?

 

[SouthAussie]

‘Timid and upset’: Mystery deepens over Saudi sisters’ deaths

Authorities still do not know how the sisters died after the results from toxicology tests and autopsies were inconclusive.

amp.smh.com.au

So, it looks like the story about the girls fleeing Saudi with $5000 during a holiday is incorrect. They allegedly travelled to Australia via Jordan and Dubai and we don’t know how much money they brought with them.

So, given that they came from a well-connected family, they may have actually come to Australia with A LOT of money or access to it, without them necessarily needing someone to send it to them. Perhaps the money they came with was running out after five years?

This is the first article where I have noticed they have put the Lifeline number at the end of the article.

 

[ClaireNC]

"Guarded" as being older she felt responsible for a younger sibling?

Yes. More cautious and protective of her sister. IMO

 

[dotr]

Two bedrooms for student sisters is a luxury, they could have downgraded to a one bedroom apt. and sold the car to raise funds if that truly was the problem. imo.

Wonder if the plumber noticed something strange like papers or clothing flushed down the toilet? imo.

Some women who have been violated in some manner, even those who have not- understandably become nervous around men, especially strange men with tools inside your home.imo.

 

[Via Marple]

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/sisters-reported-a-suspicious-figure-to-security-before-being-found-dead-in-sydney-unit/news-story/6b9234c35b775c795263bb27dcbd9fd0

Sisters reported a ‘suspicious figure’ to security before being found dead in Sydney unit​

So there are cctv inside and outside that building. Depending on how long the videos are kept (the retail ones I recently checked have cloud storage up to a month), the police may have a good idea of when the sisters were last spotted outside of their apartment, whether there are visitors around that time etc. They are building a good picture of their last movements and just need more info from the public.

(from link)
“We checked the CCTV and saw there was a man there. But that spot is busy. There is a burger shop there and Uber Eats drivers coming and going all the time. He could have been anyone.