Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

[Dotta]

Wow, that would be a very frightening thing to believe.

Well,
The attack might have happened during morning - it was reported the sisters stayed up at night and slept during the day.

And burger takewayay in the building means crowds of both customers and uber drivers.
Who would pay attention to somebody opening the door?

Re: burglars.
I once watched a documentary - very enlightening

MOO

 

[Fika]

This is a really odd case, the first thing that I thought was they were murdered for escaping SA.
Now I am not so sure, mental illness could have played a role at least one of the sister might have suffered mental health issues. What I find odd ( among many things) is that they believed someone tampered with food delivery but how? Im in Europe but usually food delivery comes right from packing magazine straight to the door by a driver and is handed at the door. How would someone tamper with that?when? Also Middle Eastern man seen in building it was also burger place and many people went in and out ( I assume) unless the man behaved really suspicious its odd that someone even noticed him specifically? My neighbours have many friends over and I see many different people a lot unless they do something which stands out I don’t think they are suspicious.
They seemed scared and stayed in corner during check so that shows to some sort of paranoia they most likely had a good reason to suspect that someone will come for them after they escaped but maybe this fear went too far.. All IMO

 

[dotr]

Well,
The attack might have happened during morning - it was reported the sisters stayed up at night and slept during the day.

And burger takewayay in the building means crowds of both customers and uber drivers.
Who would pay attention to somebody opening the door?

Re: burglars.
I once watched a documentary - very enlightening

MOO

''Just a hop skip and a jump'' ! i can almost imagine the Balcony Rapist thinking...., speculation, imo. fwiw

How strange objects were found in Saudi sisters' apartment

Asra Abdullah Alsehli, 24, and Amaal Abdullah Alsehli, 23, were found dead inside their apartment in Canterbury on June 7, five years after they fled their homeland.

www.dailymail.co.uk

2017 rbbm.

Infamous ‘Balcony Rapist’ living in Surrey; residents upset neighbourhood wasn’t notified - BC | Globalnews.ca

Paul Callow spent 20 years in jail after he was convicted of raping five women at knifepoint in Toronto in the mid-80s.

globalnews.ca

''Paul Callow spent 20 years in jail after he was convicted of raping five women at knifepoint in Toronto in the mid-80s. He was dubbed the “Balcony Rapist” because he broke into women’s homes by climbing onto second- or third-storey balconies.''

 

[NeverPersonal]

''Paul Callow spent 20 years in jail after he was convicted of raping five women at knifepoint in Toronto in the mid-80s. He was dubbed the “Balcony Rapist” because he broke into women’s homes by climbing onto second- or third-storey balconies.''

This is exactly why I'm obsessed with keeping the balcony door locked at my apartment! People are nuts.

 

[Charlot123]

Also,
Re: not a trace of forced entry.

Experienced burglars can open ANY doors without difficulty.
Not to mention balcony doors.

The sisters could have also been targeted in sexual attack and smothered by pillows.

MOO

Experienced? My dad died, and the neighbor living in the unit upstairs surprised me with the speed of changing our “complex Finnish locks”. You know, it is not such a gift, or maybe, rather a common gift. So, don’t even look for an experienced burglar, look for an average mechanically inclined man.

 

[Dotta]

Experienced? My dad died, and the neighbor living in the unit upstairs surprised me with the speed of changing our “complex Finnish locks”. You know, it is not such a gift, or maybe, rather a common gift. So, don’t even look for an experienced burglar, look for an average mechanically inclined man.

Ha ha ha
But...
The "key" factor is -
not leaving a single TRACE

 

[Gemmie]

According to this source they were found naked. That is unusual. When they say naked I imagine they don't mean in their underwear or pajamas.

It's not unusual for everyone. If they went to bed for the evening maybe they simply don't wear pajamas. I sleep in the nude all year around (and yes, that means no undies, or you wouldn't be defined as naked), even when it's below zero out. I know. TMI. LOL

Hot weather? I use less blankets or kick them off entirely. Cold weather? More blankets, but NEVER pajamas, so I don't find that odd or unusual at all if they had retired for the evening.

So if they had retired for the evening, and found dead in their beds, then what killed them both at the same time? So for me, I'm not suspecting suicide. I'd never consider dying by suicide, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't undress for the act KNOWING someone was going to eventually find my body. And I'd likely not get under the covers if I was waiting for something like a poison to do its work. I'd sit in an easy chair, the couch, or lay on the bed, not under the covers. MOO

ETA - When I'm talking about "for the evening" I simply mean when they go to bed to sleep as it's been reported they were up at night and slept in the day.

 

[Dotta]

It's not unusual for everyone. If they went to bed for the evening maybe they simply don't wear pajamas. I sleep in the nude all year around (and yes, that means no undies, or you wouldn't be defined as naked), even when it's below zero out. I know. TMI. LOL

Hot weather? I use less blankets or kick them off entirely. Cold weather? More blankets, but NEVER pajamas, so I don't find that odd or unusual at all if they had retired for the evening.

So if they had retired for the evening, and found dead in their beds, then what killed them both at the same time? So for me, I'm not suspecting suicide. I'd never consider dying by suicide, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't undress for the act KNOWING someone was going to eventually find my body. And I'd likely not get under the covers if I was waiting for something like a poison to do its work. I'd sit in an easy chair, the couch, or lay on the bed, not under the covers. MOO

Considering their upbringing I doubt they slept without clothes.

Another thing - they usually slept in the morning (as was reported), so sleeping naked is twice unbelieveable for me in this case.

But this is MY OPINION only.

 

[Charlot123]

This is a really odd case, the first thing that I thought was they were murdered for escaping SA.
Now I am not so sure, mental illness could have played a role at least one of the sister might have suffered mental health issues. What I find odd ( among many things) is that they believed someone tampered with food delivery but how? Im in Europe but usually food delivery comes right from packing magazine straight to the door by a driver and is handed at the door. How would someone tamper with that?when? Also Middle Eastern man seen in building it was also burger place and many people went in and out ( I assume) unless the man behaved really suspicious its odd that someone even noticed him specifically? My neighbours have many friends over and I see many different people a lot unless they do something which stands out I don’t think they are suspicious.
They seemed scared and stayed in corner during check so that shows to some sort of paranoia they most likely had a good reason to suspect that someone will come for them after they escaped but maybe this fear went too far.. All IMO

I think several questions need to be asked.

I don’t know about the visa system in AU; for green cards in the US, one has to pass a doctor’s exam. I assume something like this exists in AU. There should be some history of visiting a doctor. This is where one has to start. What did the AU doctor who saw them say/see?

Next. I don’t remember mental issue questions for US green card or citizenship, it was all a blur because I was taking my citizenship exam on the next day after 9-11. But - I know from my friends that Canadian applications have questions about prior mental health. What does AU have?

What did people who were their friends in 2018-18 see? I can 100% believe that their mom visited AU and didn’t like it, but what made the sisters move?

Did people living with them in the first location observe any change with years? For all I see, Asra was open enough to have a friend/bf? At least a guy interested in her (because for young men, “friendship” always implies some interest). This was not the same person who was sending sister to buy drinks two years later and not getting out of the car. What changed?

Pay attention, Asra she was an older sister and should have taken responsibility for the younger one, but IRL, Amaal was paying the rent, and Amaal persuaded her to take AVO back, and Amaal spoke about the food being tampered with…

We need a better earlier history. I think this case is potentially solvable.

About SA - their young crown prince, while once implicated in a nasty story, is nonetheless concerned about positive PR. It is under his watch that women were allowed to drive, and he thinks that burka should not be mandatory. Something makes me think that a man who wants to present to the world as the supporter of women’s rights would not chase young females who were still Saudi citizens, much less kill them abroad. This can not rule out other groups chasing them, of course.

 

[Gemmie]

Considering their upbringing I doubt they slept without clothes.

Another thing - they usually slept in the morning (as was reported), so sleeping naked is twice unbelieveable for me in this case.

But this is MY OPINION only.

Good point about their upbringing. With that said, if they were nude, yet would never sleep in the buff... that really makes one wonder what the heck happened to them.

 

[Fika]

Good point about their upbringing. With that said, if they were nude, yet would never sleep in the buff... that really makes one wonder what the heck happened to them.

I think it is possible they slept naked, in the end they escaped the country of their upbringing to be more free and spent 5 years in a country with freedom so I wouldn’t rule out them sleeping in a way they wanted to.

 

[Charlot123]

This is a really odd case, the first thing that I thought was they were murdered for escaping SA.
Now I am not so sure, mental illness could have played a role at least one of the sister might have suffered mental health issues. What I find odd ( among many things) is that they believed someone tampered with food delivery but how? Im in Europe but usually food delivery comes right from packing magazine straight to the door by a driver and is handed at the door. How would someone tamper with that?when? Also Middle Eastern man seen in building it was also burger place and many people went in and out ( I assume) unless the man behaved really suspicious its odd that someone even noticed him specifically? My neighbours have many friends over and I see many different people a lot unless they do something which stands out I don’t think they are suspicious.
They seemed scared and stayed in corner during check so that shows to some sort of paranoia they most likely had a good reason to suspect that someone will come for them after they escaped but maybe this fear went too far.. All IMO

And then again, how to interpret what has been said? In my state, restaurant takeouts are delivered by Uber and Door Dash. If you order several dishes, each is packaged in a carton box and closed. Nothing is sealed, potentially, a delivery man can open a box and take out a little bit. Now, usually this doesn’t happen, but I once had a funny situation with my delivery. So, maybe girls noticed the boxes were opened and closed again. Or maybe, they had post Covid syndrome with parosmias (nasty stuff) and were positive they were poisoned because stuff tasted odd. Or, maybe it was real paranoia.

NB: post Covid parosmia is not that uncommon. Since flavor is related to smell, not only smell but taste would change and none the wiser.

Parosmia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Parosmia: What It Is, Treatment & How Long it Lasts

Parosmia is a condition that is characterized by a distortion in your sense of smell. It can be caused by a common cold, sinusitis or even COVID-19. Learn more about parosmia, what can cause it, and how it is treated

www.tuasaude.com

 

[Fika]

And then again, how to interpret what has been said? In my state, restaurant takeouts are delivered by Uber and Door Dash. If you order several dishes, each is packaged in a carton box and closed. Nothing is sealed, potentially, a delivery man can open a box and take out a little bit. Now, usually this doesn’t happen, but I once had a funny situation with my delivery. So, maybe girls noticed the boxes were opened and closed again. Or maybe, they had post Covid syndrome with parosmias (nasty stuff) and were positive they were poisoned because stuff tasted odd. Or, maybe it was real paranoia.

NB: post Covid parosmia is not that uncommon. Since flavor is related to smell, not only smell but taste would change and none the wiser.

Parosmia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Parosmia: What It Is, Treatment & How Long it Lasts

Parosmia is a condition that is characterized by a distortion in your sense of smell. It can be caused by a common cold, sinusitis or even COVID-19. Learn more about parosmia, what can cause it, and how it is treated

www.tuasaude.com

Here the food delivery comes with uber/ foodora or restaurant own drivers I never had a bad experience and never actually occurred to me that someone might do something to my food.
But if they ordered from one place I can see that is possible ( although why would delivery man want to poison them?)
But if they ordered from multiple places that is impossible since the only people who can temper with food is restaurant workers and delivery man.
I can’t see multiple delivery men tempering with their food

 

[dotr]

Good point about their upbringing. With that said, if they were nude, yet would never sleep in the buff... that really makes one wonder what the heck happened to them.

The number one reason it seems unlikely to me that the sisters would choose to sleep unclothed, is because they were fearful that they were being watched.
If LE and landlords and plumbers have been coming to their door and apparently making the girls nervous, it is hard to imagine that they would feel comfortable sleeping in the raw, jmo, speculation, fwiw.

 

[Dotta]

The number one reason it seems unlikely to me that the sisters would choose to sleep unclothed, is because they were fearful that were being watched.
If LE and landlords and plumbers have been coming to their door and apparently making the girls nervous, it is hard to imagine that they would feel comfortable sleeping in the raw, jmo, speculation, fwiw.

Yes.
Besides, it is very difficult to get rid of habits we were brought up with.

 

[ElGato]

Experienced burglars can open ANY doors without difficulty.
Not to mention balcony doors.

The sisters could have also been targeted in sexual attack and smothered by pillows.

MOO

You will find lots of security companies making that claim, because it scares people into buying fancier locks.

And it's true that an experienced locksmith can pick any lock.

So why don't all locksmiths just become burglars and rapists, instead of people with jobs and respectful relationships?

There are forums out there that discuss this: people who randomly burgle or commit sexual assault are too impatient and generally messed up to be capable of investing the time and patience to learn this skill, and use it.

They just look for a home with a partially open window, or a simple knob lock.

ETA, plus there'd need to be several men to subdue and smother 2 women. However fearful they may have been, natural instinct leads people to fight back, not obediantly allow some guy to SA and smother them in turn.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

ETA, plus there'd need to be several men to subdue and smother 2 women. However fearful they may have been, natural instinct leads people to fight back, not obediantly allow some guy to SA and smother them in turn.

JMO

But the girls were asleep in separate rooms.
What if the 1st was smothered with a pillow and then the next?
They would not have opportunity to utter a shriek.

 

[dotr]

Here the food delivery comes with uber/ foodora or restaurant own drivers I never had a bad experience and never actually occurred to me that someone might do something to my food.
But if they ordered from one place I can see that is possible ( although why would delivery man want to poison them?)
But if they ordered from multiple places that is impossible since the only people who can temper with food is restaurant workers and delivery man.
I can’t see multiple delivery men tempering with their food

Delivery tampering not uncommon, imo.

What to Do if Deliveries Look Tampered With – Brilliance Security Magazine

brilliancesecuritymagazine.com

''Aside from just general mail or packages, there’s also evidence that supports the idea that food delivery drivers will sometimes steal from your order. One in four delivery drivers has admitted to tampering with food during their delivery route. As more people use online food delivery apps, restaurants and convenience stores should use tamper-evident packaging to ensure their products are being delivered safely.

Whether it’s food coming to your door or a package ordered from Amazon, these are some steps to follow if you believe that your deliveries were opened:

If you see anyone besides a postal worker near your mailbox, call the police immediately.

1. Maintain any evidence of tampered envelopes or packages and bring them to your local post office — they will typically instruct you on the next steps.
2. Alert your neighbors and landlord if you believe your mail has been tampered with.
3. Visit your local police station and explain your situation to them.
4. Consider adding a lockbox to your property to protect your mail and packages.

It’s wise to apply common sense to these types of situations. The goal is to receive deliveries free of tampering, but it can sometimes be out of your control who accesses your packages.''

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This is quite a baffling case, I’m glad the police are doing a thorough investigation and not taking it as a open and shut case of suicide.
Some questions I have atm.
When did the food deliveries stop?
Did they only order prepared meals (Uber,DoorDash,Menulog) or groceries too?
Were there empty medication boxes in the apartment?
Were there containers of poisons like bleach or rat poison?
If we had these answers we’d be closer to the truth.

It’s very sad because Asra and Amal had each other, not many women who’ve escaped a dire situation have a close relative and confidante to ease loneliness and safety concerns, but if it transpires it’s a murder/suicide or folie à deux situation, it was destined for tragedy, one sister with a mental illness in a foreign land and during a pandemic, multiple lockdowns in 2020-2021, was a recipe for disaster, imo.

I haven’t ruled out entirely murder by someone known or unknown to them. It’s unfortunate they were seen to be acting strange in the last year or months of their lives. Were they threatened by someone who scared the hell out of them, and became hyper vigilant as a result? Were they frightened of men in general?
Did the police visits frighten them, did they feel intruded upon?
Were they attracting unwanted attention, gossip?
Sleeping naked isn’t taboo afaik, if the woman is alone and covered by a sheet or blanket.

 

[Fika]

Delivery tampering not uncommon, imo.

What to Do if Deliveries Look Tampered With – Brilliance Security Magazine

brilliancesecuritymagazine.com

''Aside from just general mail or packages, there’s also evidence that supports the idea that food delivery drivers will sometimes steal from your order. One in four delivery drivers has admitted to tampering with food during their delivery route. As more people use online food delivery apps, restaurants and convenience stores should use tamper-evident packaging to ensure their products are being delivered safely.

Whether it’s food coming to your door or a package ordered from Amazon, these are some steps to follow if you believe that your deliveries were opened:

If you see anyone besides a postal worker near your mailbox, call the police immediately.

1. Maintain any evidence of tampered envelopes or packages and bring them to your local post office — they will typically instruct you on the next steps.
2. Alert your neighbors and landlord if you believe your mail has been tampered with.
3. Visit your local police station and explain your situation to them.
4. Consider adding a lockbox to your property to protect your mail and packages.

It’s wise to apply common sense to these types of situations. The goal is to receive deliveries free of tampering, but it can sometimes be out of your control who accesses your packages.''

I didn’t realise that it’s a thing and I order out all the time.
I never had any issues. Anyways if they ordered from the same place and had the same driver than I could see that happening. To me it still seems like mental issues played the role and not an outsider in what happened. It’s all together the food tempering with, noticing men behaving strangely, hiding in corner, IMO I dont think anyone did anything to them but downward spiral played a role of being scared.