Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #10

[Oz Jen]

I actually feel like this judge has been kicking the legs out from under a guilty verdict, one at a time.

Maybe I'm just sick over this latest direction. Fricken nonsensical.

Same, Ausgirl! ullhair:

 

[Bohemian]

That is likely where it is hung up. I can almost guarantee you, the exact same points being made here, are the same points being made there.

It's also likely that the sides are drawn primarily down gender lines.

Manslaughter, hinges on cause, rather than intent. Did he cause her death?

The men will likely take a factual, chronological approach where he de-escalated and separated, and after that, there is some onus on her to act reasonably, and he couldn't possibly have predicted that she would go over the rail.

The women, will likely take a more emotional approach, whereby of course she was in fear, and his words and threats literally forced her over the rail.

Thus, the question regarding words being force. Both sides are likely entrenched, and it boiled down to both sides looking for that legal technicality to force the issue.

Given that the judge essentially said no, words are not force, it will undoubtedly embolden the side that believes if he didn't push her physically, he didn't push her.

The only outcome, if I analyzed it correctly, can only be not guilty, or hung jury. It is a very slim chance the side that was validated by the judge, and therefore the law, will ignore that direct support. They will wield it as gospel from that point on.

Wut? :floorlaugh:

 

[Dogface]

Correct.

So what would then be the likely reason to lock her there?

A quick resolution, and de-escalation of the situation without too much thought put into taking that action.

I would buy that perhaps if he hadn't said to her wanting to go home she had been a bad girl. THAT comment made it less about de-escalating a situation and more about power tripping manipulation.

ETA: if my attacker that had caused me GBH was like I want to leave, I absolutely cannot fathom locking them in my residence. Drunk or not, that's completely illogical. Oh yes please stop beating me, oh you want to leave? Well no, you've been naughty so I'm going to put you in time out...utterly ridiculous IMO.

 

[insidecircle]

Sorry. I can't discuss this with you any more at this point. I am frustrated that you cannot hear the evident choking and terror.

Good luck with your debates with others. :seeya:

You cannot say definitively that she was choked or was not choked. The pathologist found no evidence of choking. That is your reasonable doubt. The onus is not on Tostee to prove his innocence.

 

[CleverKnot]

Having been on several jury trials, i can assure you that gender has little to do with the end result. Jury work is usually taken very seriously and its about the law, not about anything else. No jurorist wants to admit they cant make a decision.

Sent from my Blade S6 using Tapatalk

Life is almost never that black and white.

However, in this case specifically, if we can use this forum as an unscientific representation of society and possibly the jury...

... it appears with the exception of a few individuals in both directions, the perspectives and opinions are skewed heavily toward gender.

 

[Tortoise]

I've just been reading his trial posts under multiple user names elsewhere (on Big Footy, easy to spot, he can't help thanking his own posts lol). His deflection from other posters pondering the jury question concerning the metal object he was carrying, leads me to believe it was a crucial piece of evidence and he had to get rid of it.

That and his lies to his father about Warriena jumping, and not slipping while trying to get away, is enough for me to know he knows he is responsible for Warriena's terror and her death plunge.

 

[Oddsocks]

Life is almost never that black and white.

However, in this case specifically, if we can use this forum as an unscientific representation of society and possibly the jury...

... it appears with the exception of a few individuals in both directions, the perspectives and opinions are skewed heavily toward gender.

If that's the case, maybe it's more about personal experience than actual gender.

 

[Dogface]

You cannot say definitively that she was choked or was not choked. The pathologist found no evidence of choking. That is your reasonable doubt. The onus is not on Tostee to prove his innocence.

Well then, if we can't consider what was said, there is zero proof she ever tried to hit him, much less connected.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Tostee would go out four or five times a week, usually by himself. Sometimes he would spend the night drinking just water, no ice. Bar staff say he would usually still be there as they closed up, trying to speak to intoxicated girls.

http://www.dailymercury.com.au/news/tostee-had-been-banned-clubs-and-described-creepy/2354079/

Something that's bothered me and could be relevant to that night. :thinking:

 

[Tortoise]

You cannot say definitively that she was choked or was not choked. The pathologist found no evidence of choking. That is your reasonable doubt. The onus is not on Tostee to prove his innocence.

One can actually, that is the prosecution's case, that she was choked and held in such a way as not to leave a mark, hence the murder charge.

 

[NatalieJones]

Tostee's father was into property development at one point. Maybe still is, for all I know, while also running his carpet business.
His mother works also ... elsewhere.

I'm sure he was. "property development" on on the gold coast.

 

[Bohemian]

I would buy that perhaps if he hadn't said to her wanting to go home she had been a bad girl. THAT comment made it less about de-escalating a situation and more about power tripping manipulation.

ETA: if my attacker that had caused me GBH was like I want to leave, I absolutely cannot fathom locking them in my residence. Drunk or not, that's completely illogical. Oh yes please stop beating me, oh you want to leave? Well no, you've been naughty so I'm going to put you in time out...utterly ridiculous IMO.

One of those pathetic guys who think 'Who's your Daddy?' is arousing to women. Ugh!

 

[TheOtherChristina]

Life is almost never that black and white.

However, in this case specifically, if we can use this forum as an unscientific representation of society and possibly the jury...

... it appears with the exception of a few individuals in both directions, the perspectives and opinions are skewed heavily toward gender.

Your bias is showing.

This presumes:
- belief in Tostee's guilt is based on emotion
- demonstration of empathy is at odds with rational thought
- belief in Tostee's innocence is based on logic
- lack of empathy equates to clearheadedness
- disapproval of Tostee's behavior is an indication of gender

I personally consider this "reasoning" to be specious.

 

[Safeguard]

I've often thought he'd be the type to keep a memento. If he has one in this case I wonder where he's hiding it! That CCTV object is the bane of my existence at the moment and I can't believe it is being followed up. Thanks for the warm welcome

Truth!

After the way he blathered over and over, about a balcony fall... I feel like he had the idea on his mind, probably long before he even met Ms Wright. I can't believe he would want to miss capturing video of an event he went to such great lengths to pull off. Tostee the Great, exercising the power of life and death, and he's not gonna record it? Yeah. Ok.

He clearly thinks very highly of himself, so incredibly clever and superior is he, that he can even come right out and say, "your lucky I haven't thrown you off my fkn balcony" and then guarantee people, after her "fall"...that was merely an unfortunate choice of words...

Imo. Whatever he was hiding when he left the building is the key to this whole thing

 

[Cleaver Greene]

While several people on this thread resent the introduction of a legal analysis of the evidence, there are some posters who are interested. When GT walks free, and he will be acquitted, if not by this court then by the Court of Appeal, there will be devastation on this thread with posters commenting that they can't understand how he was acquitted.

I am hoping with my comments that there might be at least a bit of understanding of how he will be acquitted after proper consideration of the admissible evidence.

I get defensive of suggestions that if he gets acquitted it will be because the legal players are lazy, incompetent or corrupt.

 

[Ausgirl]

Tostee would go out four or five times a week, usually by himself. Sometimes he would spend the night drinking just water, no ice. Bar staff say he would usually still be there as they closed up, trying to speak to intoxicated girls.

http://www.dailymercury.com.au/news/tostee-had-been-banned-clubs-and-described-creepy/2354079/

Something that's bothered me and could be relevant to that night. :thinking:

I'd forgotten about that... Stalked a female barstaff to her car at closeup also.

Add to other scary balcony 'date' -- escalating predator much.

 

[CleverKnot]

Sorry. I can't discuss this with you any more at this point. I am frustrated that you cannot hear the evident choking and terror.

Good luck with your debates with others. :seeya:

I hear it.

I have also been part of more altercations with all kinds of outcomes than one person should be in one lifetime. Many, many times, the woman doesn't get the opportunity to have a glass door separating them. Yes. The opportunity. Perspective.

When they are physically separated, at what point do her actions stop being his responsibility, and once again become her own free will?

That is where a definition is almost impossible to create that can satisfy a law that can be applied fairly in a civil society. What works in one extreme, is not going to work in the other.

If you honk at a car, and that car crashes are you responsible for scaring the driver? If you scream fire in a building with no fire, are you responsible for the stampede? If you scream fire in a building, but only in one room, are you responsible for the deaths of those unaware that you could have maybe saved if you thought your actions fully through, but didn't. If you push a person to suicide, are you responsible? What if what you said was innocuous, and was wrongly interpreted as a hurtful comment?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

While several people on this thread resent the introduction of a legal analysis of the evidence, there are some posters who are interested. When GT walks free, and he will be acquitted, if not by this court then by the Court of Appeal, there will be devastation on this thread with posters commenting that they can't understand how he was acquitted.

I am hoping with my comments that there might be at least a bit of understanding of how he will be acquitted after proper consideration of the admissible evidence.

I get defensive of suggestions that if he gets acquitted it will be because the legal players are lazy, incompetent or corrupt.

Even Tostee said as much. Phfft.

 

[CleverKnot]

Wut? :floorlaugh:

You are witnessing the same phenomena right here.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'd forgotten about that... Stalked a female barstaff to her car at closeup also.

Add to other scary balcony 'date' -- escalating predator much.

Yep, he's a predator, and a real cocky one too. The police know what they're dealing with, he's been given too many chances! JMO