Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #4

[Ausgirl]

Thanks Marly and the other mods. It'd suck if our discussions interfered with the legal process. The wait will be hard, but I am sure that after this trial? We will have plenty more to talk about....

And yeah, the balcony thing's been doing my head in. One possible scenario I cam up with that might account for 'what we know' (from msm...) re Warriena's behaviour, etc, plus witness statements and pics of the apt, is this:

Warriena was carried/hustled out to the balcony by Tostee. He lifts her over the rail, and sits her on the ledge -at the corner- which is where the witness below was trying to look up and saw her feet/legs.

The witness directly below said she could not see Warriena's upper body right away, but did glimpse it as Warriena leaned forward a bit (iirc). So this might be explained by Warriena's back being to the glass or the corner bit of the glass, her backside on the narrow ledge.

The witnesses say they heard three screams.. one witness says she saw Warriena's body "twist" right before she fell.

Looking at the pics of the corner, particularly the one with the cop looking up? Seems to me that if Warriena was in a -seated- position on the corner of the ledge, the witness 1 below would *only* see the bottom of her feet, unless Warriena leaned forward.

Which she might do, after sitting there, screaming her head off, then collecting her wits, to try to turn around... BUT she slips. Scream 1.

Tries desperately to hold on, turn around, Scream 2, plus the witness TWO flats down seeing her legs/foot soles appear suddenly, then her legs "twisting" as she tries to turn and get her grip.

But she fails - Scream 3... and falls.

Why do I think he sat her on that ledge? For many reasons I have previously stated... but the 25+ screams of "no" are part of it. I am absolutely convinced he put her over that rail.

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/wit...kiwi-woman-s-gold-coast-balcony-death-6184207
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ble-tostees-unit/story-fnihsrf2-1227051950766

 

[SouthAussie]

Just want to put this link here ... it has a pretty full version of the parts of the transcript that we are allowed to talk about, as well as lots of pics.

(Warning: includes a pic of Rrie - covered - at the base of the Avalon )


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-final-struggle-plus-happened-afterwards.html

 

[SouthAussie]

So, what is this about? On his way to the pizza place, a screenshot is taken of phone with pics of deceased ... and he tries to call her??
I'm not understanding what that means - he took pics of the deceased, or took pics of her phone, or took pics of his phone - with some other phone?


2.49am: Screen shot taken of phone with images of deceased. Then, a call to deceased.

Sounds of walking, traffic and traffic light pedestrian button, and then a nightclub in the background.

3.10.21am: Male states, 'Um a piece of supreme please.'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-final-struggle-plus-happened-afterwards.html

 

[SlinkiMalinki]

Just want to put this link here ... it has a pretty full version of the parts of the transcript that we are allowed to talk about, as well as lots of pics.

(Warning: includes a pic of Rrie - covered - at the base of the Avalon )


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-final-struggle-plus-happened-afterwards.html

1.15am: Conversation about her dead dog.

Thank you for posting this SouthAussie. She's telling him about Puppy. That is sad :-(

 

[marlywings]

Interesting that there's another old case which police are making comparisons with.....

Police turn to historic firebombing to prosecute Gable Tostee for murder

November 19, 2014

Police trying to prosecute Gold Coast man Gable Tostee for murder will use the same legal argument that saw two men convicted for the fatal 1973 Whiskey Au Go Go nightclub firebombing in Fortitude Valley

In the Brisbane Supreme Court on Tuesday, prosecutor Ben Power drew links between the Tostee case and that of John Andrew Stuart and James Richard Finch - two men convicted of murder over the March 1973 Whiskey Au Go Go fire.

On that occasion, Stuart was found guilty of murder because his decision to instruct Finch to light a fire was an act with an unlawful purpose that was likely to endanger human life.

Police will draw parallels between Mr Tostee's decision to allegedly lock Ms Wright out on the balcony and Stuart's choice to plan the fire.

http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/pol...-gable-tostee-for-murder-20141118-11pahp.html

 

[marlywings]

From that same report.....

"[Mr Tostee] had a choice of whether to allow the victim to leave. She was pleading with him to let her go. He, through that act, deprived her of her liberty," Mr Power said.

"The context of the physical act is very important. In this case the dangerous act was shoving the victim out onto a 14th-storey balcony and locking her out there."

Mr Power said the balcony had "no sensible route of escape".

http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/pol...-gable-tostee-for-murder-20141118-11pahp.html

 

[marlywings]

And going by the last line in that report the brief of evidence is to be completed by April,2015 with a trial likely to proceed in 2016.

I'm guessing on this but some time around August next year could be the committal hearing.

A very long haul once again!!

 

[Ausgirl]

Apparently Tostee's lawyer handed in a 'better' transcript... (the police one, as we know, leaves a bit to be desired) and god alone knows how spun *that* will be. I am sincerely hoping to get my hands on trial docs, after this, and talk about it all til the cows come home. Hopefully, too, all those months gathering evidence will include the cops making a better transcript of their own. :\

Yup, SA, the screen shot thing is weird, as are many of the things Tostee did in the hours following his assault on Rrie. Wonder if he was taking shots to send to his mates. Wouldn't put it past him. And hence, Ongart's phone being confiscated.

 

[Ausgirl]

And going by the last line in that report the brief of evidence is to be completed by April,2015 with a trial likely to proceed in 2016.

I'm guessing on this but some time around August next year could be the committal hearing.

A very long haul once again!!

Marly, tbh I am pretty gutted we've lost so many great posts. But really, it's for the best and I am sure we can all hang in there until the trial, and maybe some docs being available for purchase (I will be so in line for those!).

While I fully and for good reason believe Tostee physically put Warriena over that rail, I can see why the focus might stay on the more immediately provable charge that he endangered her by getting her drunk, assaulting her & locking her out. The evidence would support that more closely, at present, IMO. But then, there's a lot of forensics to sift through isn't there... I desperately HOPE they find *something* that can show a jury without question that he more directly put her in danger....

PS, tarjessi, I totes stole a quote from you, for my sig. Hope that's ok. :heart:

 

[possumheart]

So, what is this about? On his way to the pizza place, a screenshot is taken of phone with pics of deceased ... and he tries to call her??
I'm not understanding what that means - he took pics of the deceased, or took pics of her phone, or took pics of his phone - with some other phone?


2.49am: Screen shot taken of phone with images of deceased. Then, a call to deceased.

Sounds of walking, traffic and traffic light pedestrian button, and then a nightclub in the background.

3.10.21am: Male states, 'Um a piece of supreme please.'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-final-struggle-plus-happened-afterwards.html

... If he is calling her phone, how is it that he is later dramatically surprised that it is in his pocket?
Correct me if I am wrong, but there are only six states an iPhone 5 (same model as mine) can be in:

1. Turned on, set to ring and vibrate
2. Turned on, set to ring
3. Turned on, set to silent, but to vibrate when called
4. Turned on, set to silent, vibration off / airport mode
5. Powered off
6. Flat

The last situation is that Wrie had set a pin code to allow access to her phone (as you would, if you were travelling and responsible) and if this pincode was entered incorrectly more than three times, all data on her phone would have been deleted and I assume it would have been reset to factory settings in that event.

 

[possumheart]

Yup, SA, the screen shot thing is weird, as are many of the things Tostee did in the hours following his assault on Rrie. Wonder if he was taking shots to send to his mates. Wouldn't put it past him. And hence, Ongart's phone being confiscated.

My thoughts on that is he may have changed the view to thumbnail settings and taken a screenshot to show the evening sequentially in one screen, and sent it to TO.

 

[BigT]

The question comes down to,

Did Mr Tostee execute appropriately his duty of care, for the visitor in his house? If he did not did the visitor then have reason to fear for their safety.

It would seem the answer to the first quaestion is NO, and Mr Tostee wants to educate us on what care is. IE care for sloots WTF who ever heard of care for sloots.

Therefore the answer to the second question is, if she had just done what she had been told to do, she would have nuffin to fear, so therefore I shuld be ok, so therefore nuffins wrong.

So whats up, she drunk she fell, snots balconbrahs fault. Is it?

I think this is the defence.

 

[Deleted member 83851]

Big T you can explain anything to me! Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[Amee]

Gable Tostee's next court outing is on January 12, when he is due to appear at Southport Magistrates Court on the murder charge, as well as two separate overnight drunken incidents he allegedly committed in the months before his fateful Tinder date with Ms Wright.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ged-murder-Warriena-Wright.html#ixzz3MkxjJnoQ

:waiting:

 

[Snoods]

From that same report.....

"[Mr Tostee] had a choice of whether to allow the victim to leave. She was pleading with him to let her go. He, through that act, deprived her of her liberty," Mr Power said.

"The context of the physical act is very important. In this case the dangerous act was shoving the victim out onto a 14th-storey balcony and locking her out there."

Mr Power said the balcony had "no sensible route of escape".

http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/pol...-gable-tostee-for-murder-20141118-11pahp.html

Exactly. He forcefully drags her to the balcony against her will. Illegal restraint. (Here in Texas it would be kidnapping to move a person to another room and hold them there against their will.) Prior to that he continually plies her with his homemade alcohol even as he complains about her being "very drunk" and says "I shouldn't have given you so much to drink."

And very telling is this exchange:

GT "you were beating me up"

Rrie "I am going, I'll get out of your hair" then "see you later."

GT begs her to stay, asking her to spend the night. (He could not have been threatened or afraid of her beating him up if he wanted to sleep next to her in a completely vulnerable state. IMO.)

GT "I will do anything you want. I will be your sex slave" (which could indicate willingness to be sexually submissive and adventurous, maybe he enjoyed the roughness? At any rate it did not seem to be a problem for him because he still wanted her to stay.)

He only asks her to leave immediately after she says she has to take a *****.

GT "you are not my kind of girl" and asks her to leave.

Rrie "Okay. It's all good." (This is key to me.)

GT continues threatening her "You're lucky I haven't chucked you off the balcony" even as she is apologizing to him and struggling with him. (This is when I believe there was no turning back for him.)

He over powered little Rrie and forced her out on the balcony, even after she apologized and begged to leave.

But she was not allowed to leave because she had been a "bad girl." It was already too late for poor Rrie.

And throughout this whole tragic evening (except for at the very end when he tells her) he knows he is recording everything but she doesn't. He could have manipulated the entire evening exactly how he wanted it so he could enjoy listening to it later. It's odd to me how he repeats certain phrases, seemed like buzzwords for him.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.20.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-final-struggle-plus-happened-afterwards.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-...police-transcript-tostee-murder-trial/5731322

All of the above is taken from the linked articles unless it is stated as my opinion. Yikes, sorry for the long post.

 

[Ausgirl]

On that occasion, Stuart was found guilty of murder because his decision to instruct Finch to light a fire was an act with an unlawful purpose that was likely to endanger human life.

Police will draw parallels between Mr Tostee's decision to allegedly lock Ms Wright out on the balcony and Stuart's choice to plan the fire.

http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/pol...-gable-tostee-for-murder-20141118-11pahp.html

Wild guess time -- the act with "unlawful purpose" was him depriving Warriena of liberty... And maybe 'likely to endanger human life' involves her being legless drunk on his moonshine, and him terrorising her before putting and leaving her out there.

Or maybe they do have evidence that he put her over the rails... which fits the parallel more closely.

 

[SlinkiMalinki]

Special thoughts, love and prayers to Warriena's loved ones as they face their first Christmas without her at the table. We will all look forward to the Trial as it will bring closure to everyone concerned. Justice will come in one form or another and Truth will always prevail.

Wishing all of you here a Merry Christmas.

 

[SouthAussie]

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<modsnip>

And just to add to this, if Rrie was trying to climb down to the balcony below, she would have been facing inwards ... in the hopes that she could slide down and grab onto the railing of the balcony below to secure herself.

However, if a person was lowering or placing Rrie on the outside of that 14th floor railing, they definitely would need to keep Rrie facing away from them - feet pointed outwards toward the river - because otherwise she would have clung to them tightly to stop herself being placed or dropped over the safety of the railing. In the same manner as she would have clung to them tightly (if facing toward them) when she was being manhandled out onto the balcony.

Instead we heard there was banging of glass, as if Rrie was facing outwards and kicking and grabbing at the glass doors as she was forced out onto the balcony - and possibly even kicking at the glass of the balcony surround.

Police re-enactments would have gone through all of this, and probably taken video of their re-enactments to show in court.


(Apologies for having to spell this out, but I just want it to be clear to those who may not have a clear picture in their minds.)

 

[they'll get you]

<modsnip>

<modsnip>

Warriena Tagpuno Wright was a beautiful daughter, sister and friend.

 

[Ausgirl]

And throughout this whole tragic evening (except for at the very end when he tells her) he knows he is recording everything but she doesn't. He could have manipulated the entire evening exactly how he wanted it so he could enjoy listening to it later. It's odd to me how he repeats certain phrases, seemed like buzzwords for him.

Good post. Snoods. I was just now reading through the "wallet incident thread" (which I have saved...) and for some time now, I have thought that whole thing was very hoaxy and set up, for several reasons I'll expound on below. I mention this, as I think it's VERY relevant to your comments re "he knows he is recording everything" and "buzzwords". I've said it many times over the course of our threads here, that I believe for good reason that Tostee was manipulating both the situation -and- the recording, for his own amusement and benefit, and I believe the 'wallet incident' is a precursor to this.

Firstly, we see his complaint that a girl he had sleep over has stolen his wallet. He provides a poor quality video of a girl he claims is leaving, after taking something off a table and looking behind her.

He then asks he misc brahs advice on how to get his wallet back. To the eye-bleedingly obvious answer, 'call the police', he replies in post #15 that the police are useless. Even allowing for the fact that perhaps he believes this to be true (though I think he has other reasons for wanting to avoid police) he follows this with the comment that she might also cry rape.

Think about that, as a given reason for not calling police, in light of what we know about Tostee and his attitude to women, and his reputation as 'creeper'.

He makes plenty of self-deprecating claims that he was drunk and he's not 100% sure she took it, etc. and repeats that he 'knows' the cops will do nothing to help him, poor Gabe. Then says he played dumb and texted her, asking her name.

After a multitude of posters telling him to go to police and concerns for his credit cards, he posts that the wallet was 'only' his 'club wallet' and lists the contents. Good dodge! He also claims "muscle memory" as the reason why, as drunk as he gets, he has never "lost" his wallet before. He points out details in the video which are NOT clear at all -- the size and shape of what she took off the table, the look on her face, etc.. I am not seeing any of those things.

Claims he tried to Google and FB search the number and came up empty. This seems to me, in regard to a young woman who likes to party, using social media these days, highly unlikely.

He then says he'll call her later as she "might be asleep". :waitasec: One brah prophetically posts: in b4 she turns up dead...

At a question of how he knows it's not a fake number, he states he 'thinks' he did so already, as he 'normally' tests to see if its a fake number. Says vid surveillance was put in due to his keys being stolen by tradesmen on a prior occasion. :notgood:

Lots of incredibly creepy suggestions from miscers, including some who claim to be LE.... however, many also keep urging that he call the police. Some also make suggestions re very effective ways find out her name, via her phone number.

Tostee gives a pile of lame excuses as to why none of these will work. Then apparently, they work. He posts that he has her name, FB and place of work, then asks MORE advice on how to proceed.

In post #122 he lays out a cunning plan to "trap her".
In post #130 he quotes an apparent conversation, asking if she's seen his wallet, she says no. Says he saw her grabbing something, etc.
In posts #140 confronts her with accusation.. she denies, saying "she can't remember" ( familiar, hm?)...

Post #161 is VERY INTERESTING!
He claims he can't confront her at work because... she works in a nightclub. Read this post for yourself, then consider:
--the likelihood of staff taking a client home -- then stealing from him, knowing there's a v/good chance he knows where she works.
-- the likelihood he doesn't recognise her from a club he frequently attends.
--his concern re getting a "false bad reputation" (on top of a false rape accusation...?) -- and what club staff have said about *him* in msm.
-- what he says about being banned from another club PLUS his visible habit of minimising his blameworthy actions.

Where I had caught whiffs of BS before, it's now pungent.

Post #223 he claims success in getting his wallet, posts screenshot of texts back and forth. I'm not familiar with this chat program, but there's no personalised avatars. Most people have those. There's absolutely NO way we can tell he's not texting back and forth to himself.

Compare *real* screenshot on his post, this page: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=162392551&p=1259403371#post1259403371

Post #229 Details his surveillance equipment...
Post #130: Says the wallet still had money in it, and all cards but one that he "may have" lost himself.

So, let's look at the narrative so far:

This nightclub employee goes home with Tostee.
Despite that she works at a club he frequently goes to, she steals his "club wallet" before she leaves.
Despite this, he doesn't recognise her in the morning, off the video.
He doesn't call police in case she "cries rape".
Cites trouble with other female club staff, making himself look utterly blameless for subsequent ban from club.

So this is why I think this whole theft thing was a hoax... something to do with him being butthurt over bannage from clubs, maybe, or just inventively setting up a defense in case the girl indeed "cries rape" or otherwise complains about him (to her boss, maybe? hence further club bans?).

And this, in turn, has made me VERY wary of Tostee's input to the Warriena recording (as per police transcript, OFC =P ). And is motives for making it. And his obvious manipulation of the event.

AND those "self-inflicted" wounds the ME observed on him....

Just food for thought.


Link to BBF thread: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147109323&page=9

Reclub behaviour: http://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/news/tostee-had-been-banned-clubs-and-described-creepy/2354079/

In person, he had been described as - initially, at least - confident and charming. But nightclubs had banned him because of his unsettling and unsavoury behaviour.

Tostee would go out four or five times a week, usually by himself. Sometimes he would spend the night drinking just water, no ice. Bar staff say he would usually still be there as they closed up, trying to speak to intoxicated girls.

.....a former bar worker said he had followed her to her car after closing time more than once; another said he would prowl the streets after bars had all closed, looking for dates.

One nightclub employee said: "Everyone knows to keep away from him. His reputation is he's just a weirdo, he'd just odd."