Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #9

[Tortoise]

It is amazing how twenty somethings are invincible, especially after they have some experience and training with heights, and a bit of alcohol.

I was twenty something myself, once.

And I'm content to listen to my own judgement of the situation Warriena was in. I wouldn't be swayed by your argument if we were in the jury room.

 

[CleverKnot]

I'd suggest you talk with your parents and/or friends.

An internet forum isn't the place to learn "proper" behaviour.

Imagine if somebody took seriously some of the stuff posted by the miscers on the Body Building forum...

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It was not my assertion that there was a "proper" way of handling a woman. I was asking for the person who claimed there was, to explain this "proper" procedure in real terms.

<modsnip>

Which was the real point of me asking.

 

[Karinna]

Of course you are and Karinna will be the first to agree you are allowed to use restraint.

Getting into a physical fight with someone should be a last resort option if there is nothing else you can do to get away. But that is not the case with GT. He had options to remove himself from the situation. And that is my take on it FWIW.

 

[Cleaver Greene]

Seriously, you believe this? She would climb over a railing that far from the ground and risk her own death because she didn't want to sit out on the balcony all night? When she could have banged on the door and said let me back in!?

The jury is only expected to use common sense, not look at highly unlikely scenarios.

I have no idea what happened so I dont "believe" any particular version of events. I'm just looking at other scenarios that may explain what happened. Just because she climbed over the balcony people are assuming that the only explanation is because she must have been in fear of her life. Another explanation is that climbing over the balcony was an irrational decision. There was a door between them. Any threat was not imminent. If that was the case, a far more rational decision would have been to scream for help before deciding that climbing over the balcony was her only option.

I am not victim blaming. I am not suggesting that she brought this on herself. It could all just be a terrible tragedy. A death does not have to be someone's "fault".

"unreasonable" and "irrational" 'are not my words. They are legal terms of how one's conduct is assessed.

 

[Bohemian]

I'd suggest you talk with your parents and/or friends.

An internet forum isn't the place to learn "proper" behaviour.

Imagine if somebody took seriously some of the stuff posted by the miscers on the Body Building forum...

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Marry me.

 

[CleverKnot]

It is a good thing that the jury can take into consideration Warriena's level of intoxication - which deprived her of oxygen and the ability to think clearly.
It is a terrible chain of events that likely would not have occurred if she had not been locked on that balcony. He could have removed her to practically anywhere else, and this would not have happened.

Tostee's errors:
1st - locking her on the balcony
2nd - not calling police once he had locked her on the balcony

So you're admitting she wasn't thinking clearly?

 

[PainExpress]

Was it? Did W know it was? Questions, questions, questions......much doubt......'not guilty.'

If it was that straight forward we should have had a verdict Monday.

"... you don't understand do you? You don't understand anything at all, do you? You don't understand, do you?"

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[LozDa]

Was it? Did W know it was? Questions, questions, questions......much doubt......'not guilty.'

As we know, not guilty does not mean innocence. That's what we are discussing here and it is why we are different to the jury. We do not have the same limitations as the jury.


I can surmise and guess as much as I wish and I can also hope that Tostee is thrown in jail for the rest of his life. And I do. I do hope that.

 

[guruagain]

Essentially.

Correct. Not completely, and not to the point a rational person couldn't have taken reasonable steps to aquire assistance.

Apparently, one witness testified he was telling her to get back inside.

That witness did not know what had happened or was currently happening inside.

 

[CleverKnot]

If he was inside when the neighbours started witnessing her going over the edge there is no way he would known that.

If he was inside.

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He was inside.

At 2 am in the morning, it is painfully obvious that someone is going to hear her. It would have to be the most egregious case of denial or delusion to think that she wasn't going to make noise, or that no one was going to hear her while he concocted his next terrifying plan of torture.

It's inconceivable to think he was hiding her or storing her out there to use later.

 

[SouthAussie]

So you're admitting she wasn't thinking clearly?

That has never been in dispute by me. Warriena was blind drunk, she was terrified, she was oxygen deprived, she had been roughed up, she was a long way from home.

She needed care .... not confinement ... the resident who invited her to his home's care .... using his duty of care.

Which is why it frustrates me when others on this thread keep expecting her to have acted as if she was sober and unafraid of the person inside.

.

 

[Ausgirl]

LOL, what next, soon they'll be asking if Jedhi power is to be considered using "the Force"

It's a perfectly relevant question, though.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

He was inside.

At 2 am in the morning, it is painfully obvious that someone is going to hear her. It would have to be the most egregious case of denial or delusion to think that she wasn't going to make noise, or that no one was going to hear her while he concocted his next terrifying plan of torture.

It's inconceivable to think he was hiding her or storing her out there to use later.

Delusional, yep, I'd say he is. JMO though.

 

[guruagain]

It is not contested that the door closed and he was inside. It is clear in the recording....what the jury is asked to find is that her absolute fear forced her over the balcony, and that at that time, and in her reasonable expectation, this was her only option. That GT is an a...hole Is also not contested by the way....

Both points correct but we don't know what point on the tape recording the witness saw the legs either.

 

[BigT]

I was twenty something myself, once.

And I'm content to listen to my own judgement of the situation Warriena was in. I wouldn't be swayed by your argument if we were in the jury room.

J has given directions, you should take into account WW level of intoxication with respect to her judgement. There is no suggestion of any experience with heights by her. The prosecution adduced evidence she was terrified. If you want to play Juror then you need to decide if that fear was force enough for her to have no option that to climb over. This is what jurors are asked to do, it is not helpful to make up issues of mental health here that simply are not relevant, of consider what any of us, or what GT or WW should have or could have done. J has also instructed to ignore that GT left building and ate a pizza.

 

[Elde Fruit]

<modsnip>a bit far-fetched, if he put her on the balcony and then would let her back in a few minutes later, I certainly would not entertain the idea of trying to climb down.

They are not 'far fetched' at all, not even 'a bit.' They are entirely practical, and not technical (the way my mind works) which is great. Tostee was not playing out some master plan here. He was clearly reacting to what he was presented with by what he described as a psycho and the recording backs that up. IMO he had every reason to come to that conclusion, given her erratic conduct. She unlawfully assaulted him in a manner which likely could have killed him. Instead of belting her physically, he acted with great restraint, removed her to the balcony for no reason other than to bring her violence to an effective end, and there the incident ought to have concluded. Irrationally, W chose a dumb option he cannot be held responsible for. Not guilty.

 

[SouthAussie]

<modsnip>
And on that note I am adjourning. Until tomorrow, my WS friends. :seeya:

 

[CleverKnot]

<modsnip> a bit far-fetched, if he put her on the balcony and then would let her back in a few minutes later, I certainly would not entertain the idea of trying to climb down.

He stopped the violence.

What he was going to do next would have been witnessed by umpteen neighbors, quite obviously, because he just put an angry, loud woman, on the balcony at 2 am in the morning.

It is almost preposterous to think he wasn't aware that everyone around his unit, was now going to be involved. Who hasn't had a loud guest or issue in their apartment condo, and immediately thought about what the neighbors are going to think and do?

 

[barcode]

They are not 'far fetched' at all, not even 'a bit.' They are entirely practical, and not technical (the way my mind works) which is great. Tostee was not playing out some master plan here. He was clearly reacting to what he was presented with by what he described as a psycho and the recording backs that up. IMO he had every reason to come to that conclusion, given her erratic conduct. She unlawfully assaulted him in a manner which likely could have killed him. Instead of belting her physically, he acted with great restraint, removed her to the balcony for no reason other than to bring her violence to an effective end, and there the incident ought to have concluded. Irrationally, W chose a dumb option he cannot be held responsible for. Not guilty.

<modsnip>

Just so it does not seem confusing, Elde Fruit responded to a post that I made to CleverKnot as though the post was to him/her.

 

[PainExpress]

Marry me.

[emoji7] [emoji8] [emoji1]

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