Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #65

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  • #321
What has 'big little lies' got to with the disappearance of William Tyrrell? I didn't take what you had written in the context of your message here.

I tracked back where I picked up on your discussion and this is how it was started

Naobh said:
"The court heard how Tyrrell's parents were in a "troubled relationship" with a history of substance abuse and domestic violence when he was born on June 26, 2011."

IMO this indicates the children witnessed domestic violence in a chaotic environment. Often parents can come back from such a situation. If the department is putting kids from these types of vulnerable families where they may not have the skills and resources to fight it, into 18 year orders, that is dodgy imo, and the foster family imo. We were supposed to have got rid of forced adoption imo.

William Tyrrell's parents hid him from authorities before putting him in foster care, court hears
Click to expand...
"The court heard how Tyrrell's parents were in a "troubled relationship" with a history of substance abuse and domestic violence when he was born on June 26, 2011."

IMO this indicates the children witnessed domestic violence in a chaotic environment. Often parents can come back from such a situation."



As to the BBM above---often parents can come back from a situation of drug abuse and domestic violence---but what happens if they don't? How long are their kids left in limbo, waiting to see if their bio parents can rehabilitate successfully?

I feel sad for the children that don't get the chance for stability and a strong emotional foundation, because their bio parents are given 10 years or more to try and straighten things out---and the kids are the ones that are negatively impacted. JMO

“Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn
katydid23, Today at 2:21 PM Report
#279 Like + Quote Reply

HERE his where I was asked about Little Big Lies:
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #65
Did you watch Big Little Lies? Mum and dad have a few wines (alcohol is a drug), there is domestic violence while the boys are in the next room.

The house is clean, the kids are well dressed, the police aren't called because no one can hear in a huge house surrounded by garden...

How many years was that going on?

Did you ever once think, those boys should have been on an 18 year order?

Naobh, Today at 1:43 PM

here was my reply:
No, I didnt see Big Little Lies, so I don't know how to answer that question specifically.

But in general, if the parents are routinely , for years, drinking enough to end up in domestic violence situations, then YES, the kids should be removed from the clean house, in their nice clothes. JMO

Kids know when there is violence taking place behind closed doors. That is a very toxic, debilitating situation.



I hope this clears it up for you. :)
 
  • #322
IMO seems the FFC does make occasional slip-ups???

17 November 2021

50581291-0-image-a-6_1637104130787.jpg


William Tyrell's FFC - the main person of interest in the three-year-old's disappearance - has appeared in public as police step up their search for the missing toddler. She walked out of her home on Sydney's upper north shore on Wednesday morning wearing a pair of slippers before spotting media crews





50586849-10210295-image-a-35_1637113245426.jpg

William's foster mother went back inside the house and re-emerged wearing shoes before getting into a grey Land Rover Discovery with her husband

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by his foster mother the morning he vanished' | Daily Mail Online
 
  • #323
What FACS did or didn't do with bio family before has no relevance to the disappearance of WT and the current investigation and inquest.
Imo

I disagree entirely. Facs played a large role in this matter. Before, during and now. Answers are required.

I hope there's a royal commission into this.

I want to know how it came to be that those children were basically snatched from their birth mother when they weren't abused or neglected with zero ability for the birth mother to get them returned. It's extremely unusual and the public deserves answers about where FACS resources are allocated and whether there was conflict of interest and discrimination involved.
 
  • #324
IMO seems the FFC does make occasional slip-ups???

17 November 2021

50581291-0-image-a-6_1637104130787.jpg


William Tyrell's FFC - the main person of interest in the three-year-old's disappearance - has appeared in public as police step up their search for the missing toddler. She walked out of her home on Sydney's upper north shore on Wednesday morning wearing a pair of slippers before spotting media crews





50586849-10210295-image-a-35_1637113245426.jpg

William's foster mother went back inside the house and re-emerged wearing shoes before getting into a grey Land Rover Discovery with her husband

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by his foster mother the morning he vanished' | Daily Mail Online
Maybe she had shoes in the car and was going to wear slippers until she arrived at the appointment. Then she saw the media and decided to go change first. I don't think it is a big deal.
 
  • #325
IMO seems the FFC does make occasional slip-ups???

17 November 2021

50581291-0-image-a-6_1637104130787.jpg


William Tyrell's FFC - the main person of interest in the three-year-old's disappearance - has appeared in public as police step up their search for the missing toddler. She walked out of her home on Sydney's upper north shore on Wednesday morning wearing a pair of slippers before spotting media crews





50586849-10210295-image-a-35_1637113245426.jpg

William's foster mother went back inside the house and re-emerged wearing shoes before getting into a grey Land Rover Discovery with her husband

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by his foster mother the morning he vanished' | Daily Mail Online


17 November 2021 was obviously a no news day.
I’d wear my slippers for a drive through coffee.

A Seinfeld moment much todo about nothing.
 
  • #326
Why Chris Smith 'doesn't buy' investigation of William Tyrrell's foster parents - 2GB
Chris Smith has vouched for the character of William Tyrrell’s foster mother and father amid police and public scrutiny.

Chris has interviewed the parents in the past and maintains contact with them.

He told Ben Fordham in the “couple of short communications” he’s had in recent weeks. the parents have been “petrified” and “rapt with fragility”.
 
  • #327
So LT is going on towards the age of 12. So if she did not want to be adopted, could this have caused disharmony in the family leading to an AVO I wonder.
Merely speculation of course.
With adoption she would be issued a new birth certificate, with the foster parents names, her name can be changed to their names, so basically she will no longer share her brothers last name, he birth perents will no longer appear on the birth certificate, on the new birth certificate it will look like her foster parents are her birth perents, im not sure if she has contact with her birth mother, but its an odd time leading up to the age of 12 where the child can hav an input into the decision of adoption, you would think that at this time if the family are happy together that the family would be moving forward to adoption rather than what is now suggested in the media
 
  • #328
We've had royal commissions into these things in this country. It is a complex and difficult problem, and yes, very sad and harrowing. However the conclusions advocates and experts have reached is that reunification with the bio family is nearly always in the best interests of the child. This is for various reasons. One of them being snobby people judging small things more harshly sometimes (but academics will call this cultural something or other I think). Does anyone have a summary of the royal commission? Or an article explaining it. @organised_chaos ?

Facs appears to have gone against what we have learned over the years as a country imo and the entitlement shown by say a FF who doesn't want the kids to call BM "mum" suggests something about their character in the context of other pointers etc imo.

@Naobh I am not sure which commission you are referring to? Can you let me know :) Secondly, I think you are touching on acculturation and cultural identity?

Firstly, sorry for the long post. dot points used to make for quick reading. First lot of info from 2018 research (so would include the approach used at the time of WT & LT being removed from bio parents). Second lot of info from child protection framework.

taken from:

https://www.sydney.edu.au/content/d...ies/A2-R2P-Forum-2018-Elizabeth-Fernandez.pdf

Reunification is defined as:
• The return of children in foster care placements to the home of their birth family
• A process aimed at helping children in out of home care attain the optimum level of reconnection with their birth family. This optimal level of reconnection may fall somewhere on a continuum from physical return through to lesser forms of contact or visitation (Maluccio et al. 1996)
• Reunification is a primary goal of foster care systems, the most common permanency planning decision

Family reunification
Fewer programs aim at reunifying families than programs aimed at preserving intact families or maintaining children in care
Reunification decision-making and the process of reintegrating children into birth families after care remain under-researched
Few controlled studies: available evidence is mixed and based largely on non-experimental designs or nonequivalent comparison groups

Family structure and disadvantage

Family disadvantage - a robust predictor of delayed reunification (Berrick, 2009; Courtney 1994; Esposito et al. 2014; Farmer, 2011; Fernandez, 1996, 2017; Frame et al. 2000; Jones 1998; Choi & Ryan, 2006).
Reunification rates are also typically lower when there are lower levels of formal and informal family support (Berrick, 2009; Festinger, 1996).
Jones noted that poor accommodation particular was found to be a factor, this being the most damaging aspect of poverty and deprivation. Residence in public housing, marginal housing and transient accommodation predicted lower rates of reunification in some Australian studies.
A parent being in employment at the time of placement increased the likelihood of reunification, and loss of benefits following placement decreased the likelihood (Kortenkamp et al. 2004).
Children from single parent families return at a slower rate – in some studies 3 times less likely to return (Landsverk et al. 1996; Wells and Guo, 1999). Similar trend reflected in Australian Studies. Jones found similar results and applied additional statistical controls and found economic deprivation rather than the pathology of the single parent family was associated with reunification and re-entry.
There are parental profiles associated with reduced probability of reunification including mental illness, substance misuse.
Paternal engagement has been found to be associated with reunification (Malm & Zielewskil, 2009)

Children entering care due to substance misuse were found less likely to return to the care of their birth families than children whose parents did not have such substance abuse problems (Shaw, 2010; Hines et al, 2007).
Completion of a drug rehabilitation program was however found to be associated with reunification (Smith, 2003). Marsh et al (2006) found that only 21% of children who entered care because of mother’s addition were restored on average within 22 months.
Presence of domestic violence also lowers the odds of reunification (Fernandez et al, 2012; Shaw, 2010)

Parental visitation/contact

• Studies have found a strong association between consistent and regular contact and early reunification (Bullock et al. 1998; Davis et al. 1996; Fernandez, 1999; Sinclair, 2005).
• Bullock et al note that contact in conjunction with other variables (child’s retention of a role in the family, inclusiveness of care plans) and direct work on existing attachments (Cleaver 2000) was predictive of reunion.
• Contact highly correlated with plans for returns (Sinclair et al, 2015).
• Davis et al noted maternal and paternal visiting were strongly associated with reunification for over 75% of children studied.
• Working with contact is helpful in making returns work (Biehal, 2007, Thoburn et al, 2012)

Facilitators of reunification

Random controlled trials of specialist family reunification (e.g. Fraser et al. 1996; Lewandowski and Pierce, 2002) have identified some predictors of success:
• Strong parent/worker partnerships
• Parent focused services – which assist family coping, meet practical needs (material transport, bolstering support from wider family and community
• Promoting inclusivity and support through involving wider family and community in decision making processes.

Facilitators of reunification

• Family achieving at least 50% of treatment goals.
• Assisting parents in making improvements in habitability of housing
. • Assisting parents with disciplinary and anger management skills. • Parental motivation and willingness to change (Sinclair et al , 2015).
• Families who receive a large number of practical services (day care, home necessities, housing support) achieve timely returns (Rzepmicki, 1997)

Systemic barriers to reunification

• Agency lack of attention to reunification goals.
• Lack of community based reunification services
. • Large geographical distance between placement and child’s family.
• Family’s perception of being discouraged and ignored by child protection services.
• Lack of services for ameliorating the circumstances and behaviours which precipitated placement.
• Parent and child determination provoked reunification (Farmer & Parkes, 1991).
• Differences in orientation between local authorities impact on chances of return home (Sinclair et al, 2005).
• Insufficient services locally to help parents make and sustain changes (Farmer & Patsios, 2016).

taken from:

Reunification is more than returning a child home | Child Safety Practice Manual

The Child Welfare Information Gateway (2011) describes four aspects of family engagement which underpin effective reunification outcomes:

  • the relationship between case worker and family, which is built through regular and frequent contact
  • facilitation of contact between the parent and child and the active use of this as an opportunity to build and observe parental skills
  • the involvement of foster carers to mentor and guide parents
  • the inclusion of a network of support for parents to help them navigate the complexities of the child protection system.

Reunification is not just the return of a child to the care of their parent/s. It is a process along a continuum of service delivery. It includes maintaining family relationships, important connections and routines while a child is in short-term care, responsive case planning and ongoing support after a child returns home (DHSS, 2016). As the preferred permanency option, reunification requires careful consideration and decisive action from the point a child first enters care to address the presenting child protection worries and ensure a return to home is possible.

‘Reunifying a child with his or her birth parents is not a one-time event. Rather, it is a process involving the reintegration of the child into a family environment that may have changed significantly from the environment the child left’. (Wulczyn, 2004, p99)
 
  • #329
Why Chris Smith 'doesn't buy' investigation of William Tyrrell's foster parents - 2GB
Chris Smith has vouched for the character of William Tyrrell’s foster mother and father amid police and public scrutiny.

Chris has interviewed the parents in the past and maintains contact with them.

He told Ben Fordham in the “couple of short communications” he’s had in recent weeks. the parents have been “petrified” and “wracked with fragility”.
This would be an absolutely terrible situation for the FP if they are innocent. Easy to understand this.

If I was innocent thought I would be very angry not "petrified" or "wracked with fragility".

One of my favourite sayings is "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear". Not sure what others thinks of these comments by Chris Smith?
 
  • #330
Why Chris Smith 'doesn't buy' investigation of William Tyrrell's foster parents - 2GB
Chris Smith has vouched for the character of William Tyrrell’s foster mother and father amid police and public scrutiny.

Chris has interviewed the parents in the past and maintains contact with them.

He told Ben Fordham in the “couple of short communications” he’s had in recent weeks. the parents have been “petrified” and “rapt with fragility”.

Another friend coming out in their defence. They sure have a lot of powerful connections. IMO
 
  • #331
This would be an absolutely terrible situation for the FP if they are innocent. Easy to understand this.

If I was innocent thought I would be very angry not "petrified" or "wracked with fragility".

One of my favourite sayings is "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear". Not sure what others thinks of these comments by Chris Smith?

After 7 years, I would be heading for a nervous breakdown with the continual happenings of this case. IMO
 
  • #332
Another friend coming out in their defence. They sure have a lot of powerful connections. IMO

I imagine he is entitled to his opinion, just like all of us.
 
  • #333
We don't know whether LT was abused but the chances of police charging people with abuse if there's no evidence is very slim.

If she's been assaulted this is a disgraceful display of victimisation and further abuse on LT, IMO.
 
  • #334
HERE his where I was asked about Little Big Lies:
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #65


Naobh, Today at 1:43 PM

here was my reply:
No, I didnt see Big Little Lies, so I don't know how to answer that question specifically.

But in general, if the parents are routinely , for years, drinking enough to end up in domestic violence situations, then YES, the kids should be removed from the clean house, in their nice clothes. JMO

Kids know when there is violence taking place behind closed doors. That is a very toxic, debilitating situation.



I hope this clears it up for you. :)
Clearly explained @katydid123 thank you
<modsnip>
 
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  • #335
I am confused as to reference to "If the kids are removed, and put in a safer place to live, and are still able to visit and speak to their mum". Did the children visit their biological mother at her home or did she visit at the foster carer's home?
If you track my conversation, you will see I was REPLYING to someone about children, in general. being removed from their homes:

Removing a child from a mother they love is also traumatic. Which is why it's supposed to be a last resort.

I replied to that ^^^ statement, and it was not specific to WT's visitation.
 
  • #336
This would be an absolutely terrible situation for the FP if they are innocent. Easy to understand this.

If I was innocent thought I would be very angry not "petrified" or "wracked with fragility".

One of my favourite sayings is "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear". Not sure what others thinks of these comments by Chris Smith?
If the police were publicly accusing you of disappearing your child, who was last seen in your presence, you wouldn't be petrified?

I would be terrified and fragile. Maybe some anger mixed in, but would definitely be petrified if the public was collecting their pitchforks while the news was following me around spewing accusations.
 
  • #337
This would be an absolutely terrible situation for the FP if they are innocent. Easy to understand this.

If I was innocent thought I would be very angry not "petrified" or "wracked with fragility".

One of my favourite sayings is "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear". Not sure what others thinks of these comments by Chris Smith?
I think that we can appreciate that they may be innocent and how awful that would be, but it still should be investigated IMO.
 
  • #338
If the police were publicly accusing you of disappearing your child, who was last seen in your presence, you wouldn't be petrified?

I would be terrified and fragile. Maybe some anger mixed in, but would definitely be petrified if the public was collecting their pitchforks while the news was following me around spewing accusations.
The emotions one would experience depend on whether they're innocent or guilty. In the case of the fosters--particularly the FFC--we don't know. All we have are a lot of unanswered questions, inconsistencies, unsupported recollections, etc.

If we want an emotional account of someone who was accused and innocent of having anything to do with WT's disappearance, we only need to turn to Bill Spedding, Paul Savage, etc. I still haven't heard a plausible theory on here as to why they would be guilty of WT's disappearance.

I imagine he is entitled to his opinion, just like all of us.
His opinion also carries more weight than all of us.
 
  • #339
If the police were publicly accusing you of disappearing your child, who was last seen in your presence, you wouldn't be petrified?

If I had been telling the truth all along, and had nothing to do with the accusations, I'd be saying: "Put me on the polygraph".
 
  • #340
The emotions one would experience depend on whether they're innocent or guilty.

If we want an emotional account of someone who was innocent of having anything to do with WT's disappearance, we only need to turn to Bill Spedding, Paul Savage, etc. I still haven't heard a plausible theory on here as to why they would be guilty of WT's disappearance.

His opinion carries more weight than all of us.

Additionally, unlike previous POIs they are still anonymous and relatively protected from the public's pitchforks.
 
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