Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #24

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  • #721
No koios, the police have not released an update about their findings nor the result of their appeal about those two cars.
Thanks Makara. I have just noticed that the full-width photo, before the cars were sketched on, can be seen at about 1:53s in the 60minutes update video.
At the left of the full-width photo, on the far side of the road, a distance behind where the two sketched cars were added, can be seen the front of a white car (a real car not a sketched car) parked on the grass verge.
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  • #722
Oh the old I know you know. Who was it that said that...lol.
By koppers logs.
 
  • #723
Oh the old I know you know. Who was it that said that...lol.
By koppers logs.

That was old Tone and Bruce Overland. "IKTYK". I know that you know. Yeah, well now we all know. :floorlaugh:
 
  • #724
The grey sedan in the police drawing is fairly dark grey and of unidentified make. KL's sedan is silver (or light grey), see last two photos at
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-pair-mysteriously-try-buy-home-together.html
There are over 5,000,000 registered vehicles in NSW

About 35% of them are grey or silver, see http://www.smh.com.au/money/borrowing/any-colour-you-like-as-long-as-its-white-20140308-34e0p.html
And guessing about half of them are sedans, I estimate there are about 875,000 grey or silver sedans in NSW.
So really the interviewer, who told KL that her car matched one seen at the scene, was incorrect to not add "and so do the 875,000 other grey or silver sedans in NSW".

You missed the point Koios. KL would have no understanding of statistics. It was her reaction that was of the utmost importance in that interview. That's what you need to watch, KL's reaction.
 
  • #725
Brett Cowan picked Daniel Morcombe up without chloroform, blanket and boot in broad daylight. Daniel was a lot older than William and would have had a lot more reasoning power than a three year old but he went along with Cowan, believing that he would drop him off at the nearby shopping centre. Daniel probably felt uncomfortable and apprehensive, his fear factor was probably just simmering under the surface. A little three year old such as William who may have been coaxed into a car, with whatever lies and promises he was told to placate him, would not have the same instincts and fear factor as a 12 year old.

The other scenario is that William was grabbed very quickly. No coaxing or promising. A large hand was placed over his mouth and he was removed from Benaroon Drive before his mother even thought about dialing 000.

Yes, that was in response to talk of chloroform and concealing William in his bright red Spiderman suit. I am aware that, statistically, force or threats are the most likely means used to control a child before and during an abduction/kidnapping. As for Daniel, we only have Cowan's word that Daniel got into his car willingly without being verbally threatened and I'd trust Cowan as far as I could kick him. Hard.
 
  • #726
hey Craby, very observant of you and I get what you are saying .. With a HOWEVER.. Was this snap take early on .. Perhaps fist up when he changed from little boy in PJs who was drawing on FG patio, to - I need more action, I'm going to be Spiderman - now I'm Spiderman. .. IMO, that's the point FM would have been drawn to photograph..

The traversing the garden could have come much later - and given the well cared for & lawned gardens that appear to have been in place, I don't see a reason for evidently dirty feet :)

NOT interesting re the case but I for my part (parent of 3) never would have had the idea to take a spiderman suit to grandma if I planned a visit for a short weekend. A bike or similar perhaps - okay. But a suit which he could have worn everywhere and not only at Benaroon Dr.?? A little bit "overly thoughtful" , MOO.

Little William is looking (pic verandah) like a three year old who perhaps wanted to play outside but someone told him first to draw the pic for his FGD. Maybe he turned around (from the position he was in while drawing, face to his sister), spread the pens with his naked feet (they are seen in some distance) and he roared a little bit aggressive (not as if he had fun) to the person we don't see. WT's sister seems to be drawing in full concentration without looking to her brother - perhaps she was accustomed to his little outbursts. - My impression since I have seen so many of this pic.

I remember the FM saying that she had a little fight with William because he didn't want to wear his singlet and she conferred with him to wear at least his spider T-shirt. Maybe, that morning he got up on the wrong foot ....
 
  • #727
Have always said TJ is a distgusting peice of pond scum.....and a legally presented response by relatives is unheard off......dont believe a word of it......lies...LMO

That, my dear Puggs, has been proven in a court of law; many times. I think the word you're looking for when you speak of of DJ's timely statement is 'lawyerspeak'.

It beats me why Jo(anne) Average would allegedly hire a lawyer to make a statement on her behalf to the public. Unless of course, it served two purposes, ie; as part of a friendly chat with police; possibly in relation to the whereabouts of a white station wagon that was said by your partner to be scrap metal but was, in fact, 'sold' to a neighbour who kept it locked up in a shed, and as a public record of your innocence of any knowledge about his proven and alleged crimes.
 
  • #728
  • #729
Old article but interesting observations from Supt Paul Fehon (Port Macquarie LAC) and neighbours; including Judy Wilson:

Missing toddler William Tyrell victim of possible targeted kidnapping from Kendall
Lia Harris
The Sunday Telegraph
January 3, 2015 10:00pm

'THE search for missing three-year-old William Tyrell is being treated as a possible targeted abduction.'

'While police are not ruling anything out, after an extended large-scale search of the surrounding bushland spanning weeks after his disappearance they are confident William did not wander off on his own.'

'It is also understood he was not prone to venturing more than a short distance from his parents.'

'Supt Fehon said a lack of evidence pointing to any particular scenario leading to William’s disappearance had investigators stumped.

“It’s got to be either adventure that’s turned into misadventure, or human intervention. Because we’re not finding anything on that side, we’ve got to be open to the possibility of human intervention,” he said.

“Everyone involved in the case and even those not involved still remain a possibility as having something to do with what has occurred.”'

'LYING IN WAIT?

THE person who abducted toddler William Tyrell may have laid in wait until the nearby houses were empty before striking, a neighbour believes.

Judy Wilson, whose property adjoins William’s grandmother’s backyard, believes it may be more than just coincidence that the child disappeared only after she went to run errands in town.

She said someone could have been waiting for her to leave, potentially aware that the neighbour on the other side was also away.

“If someone was watching the house, they would’ve seen me leave and would’ve known the other neighbour was away,” she said

Her theory emerged as it was revealed that a second access point to the street could hold the key to cracking the case.'


'Neighbours said a walking trail, dubbed the “bush track” by local children, starts at the end of Benaroon Drive, where William disappeared almost four months ago, and leads through the scrubland into the nearby Kendall cemetery.

Supt Paul Fehon, who is one of the leading investigators in the three-year-old’s disappearance, confirmed police had considered the track could be relevant to the case, but so far had not found any evidence to suggest it was used.'

'Mrs Wilson also told how William’s father frantically searched her yard over and over again into the night.

“He was just walking around crying. He kept asking me if there was anywhereelse he could’ve been hiding here,” Mrs Wilson said. “He just looked devastated.”

Mrs Wilson said she heard the two children playing in the neighbouring yard before she left to run errands in the township about 90 minutes before William disappeared, just metre’s from her home.'


'It was not the first time the family had visited Kendall, but their visits had become more frequent in recent months after William’s grandfather died earlier in the year.

Locals recalled seeing William and his family at a neighbourhood Christmas event the previous December.'

https://www.google.com.au/url?q=htt...CB4wBg&usg=AFQjCNGGHY4RIuCWC7aX7r6W5x4PloOeZg
 
  • #730
That, my dear Puggs, has been proven in a court of law; many times. I think the word you're looking for when you speak of of DJ's timely statement is 'lawyerspeak'.

It beats me why Jo(anne) Average would allegedly hire a lawyer to make a statement on her behalf to the public. Unless of course, it served two purposes, ie; as part of a friendly chat with police; possibly in relation to the whereabouts of a white station wagon that was said by your partner to be scrap metal but was, in fact, 'sold' to a neighbour who kept it locked up in a shed, and as a public record of your innocence of any knowledge about his proven and alleged crimes.
BBM
Except the neighbour didn't have a shed or garage. The vehicle in question moved from the driveway on the left to the driveway on the right. Image below is old, there is now a fence between the two driveways. But I guess it was invisible hidden behind the neighbours grey sedan.

41cf3d3f6590629e48209d3c2465883b.jpg

Image: Google street view
 
  • #731
BBM
Except the neighbour didn't have a shed or garage. The vehicle in question moved from the driveway on the left to the driveway on the right. Image below is old, there is now a fence between the two driveways. But I guess it was invisible hidden behind the neighbours grey sedan.

41cf3d3f6590629e48209d3c2465883b.jpg

Image: Google street view

My mistake. Thanks for setting me straight, rich. Midnight ramblings (rantings)...

Hmm...neighbour's grey sedan huh?
 
  • #732
My mistake. Thanks for setting me straight, rich. Midnight ramblings (rantings)...

Hmm...neighbour's grey sedan huh?

Check out street view for the grey car. It's parked in front of AJs ex house. Other imagery I have shows it in neighbour's driveway.
 
  • #733
You missed the point Koios. KL would have no understanding of statistics. It was her reaction that was of the utmost importance in that interview. That's what you need to watch, KL's reaction.

A good exercise is to watch it with the sound down, and try to work out what the person is feeling as they are talking. Can be surprising the results you get with this.
 
  • #734
THE person who abducted toddler William Tyrell may have laid in wait until the nearby houses were empty before striking, a neighbour believes.

Judy Wilson, whose property adjoins William’s grandmother’s backyard, believes it may be more than just coincidence that the child disappeared only after she went to run errands in town.

She said someone could have been waiting for her to leave, potentially aware that the neighbour on the other side was also away.

“If someone was watching the house, they would’ve seen me leave and would’ve known the other neighbour was away, she said.'

'Mrs Wilson also told how William’s father frantically searched her yard over and over again into the night.

“He was just walking around crying. He kept asking me if there was anywhere else he could’ve been hiding here,” Mrs Wilson said. “He just looked devastated.”

Mrs Wilson said she heard the two children playing in the neighbouring yard before she left to run errands in the township about 90 minutes before William disappeared, just metre’s from her home.'

https://www.google.com.au/url?q=htt...CB4wBg&usg=AFQjCNGGHY4RIuCWC7aX7r6W5x4PloOeZg

Why does this have my whiskers twitching? :cat:

Can someone refresh my memory about William's FGM's former neighbours, the Wilsons, please?

  1. I thought Mr Wilson was at home at the time his wife left, (from memory, isn't he the neighbour who said his wife left home(?) at [the very precise] time of 10:28am that morning?), and he was at home during the time she was away?
  2. Is he also the neighbour who went walking with his dog, to search for William almost immediately?
  3. Was it mentioned anywhere which colour and make of car(s) they owned?
  4. Is there AV of neighbours being interviewed anywhere?
  5. Are they among the neighbours who have subsequently 'sold up'? If so, when?
Not inferring either Mr or Mrs W. of being involved in William's disappearance; just curious about a few things is all (and we all know the effect that has on cats!)
 
  • #735
NOT interesting re the case but I for my part (parent of 3) never would have had the idea to take a spiderman suit to grandma if I planned a visit for a short weekend. A bike or similar perhaps - okay. But a suit which he could have worn everywhere and not only at Benaroon Dr.?? A little bit "overly thoughtful" , MOO.

Little William is looking (pic verandah) like a three year old who perhaps wanted to play outside but someone told him first to draw the pic for his FGD. Maybe he turned around (from the position he was in while drawing, face to his sister), spread the pens with his naked feet (they are seen in some distance) and he roared a little bit aggressive (not as if he had fun) to the person we don't see. WT's sister seems to be drawing in full concentration without looking to her brother - perhaps she was accustomed to his little outbursts. - My impression since I have seen so many of this pic.

I remember the FM saying that she had a little fight with William because he didn't want to wear his singlet and she conferred with him to wear at least his spider T-shirt. Maybe, that morning he got up on the wrong foot ....

There is no person we don't see. Have you seen the metro goldwyn lion roaring? He was most likely just moving his head around like a lion does when it roars, not roaring at someone specific. He looks cheerful. We don't know if his sister looked up the next millisecond. I imagine there are a series of pictures we haven't seen because of her face being in them. Taking a costume is not overly thoughtful. By the sounds of it it was his current "thing", parents take that stuff with them because they want the kids to be happy, and they want to experience that special aspect of their child's personality with the grandparent. My youngest had a bit of a fixation with a certain type of toy as a toddler, the family enjoyed it and indulged him in it because it is cute, it's an important part of who they are. And what of it if he got up on the wrong foot? Not that negotiating clothes with a kid that age is anything remarkable, it can be done without any stress or drama if the kids are used to being heard and having a reasonable say. The neighbour heard laughter of children playing, the parents report a normal happy morning with the kids, there is literally nothing to discount their statements.
 
  • #736
Check out street view for the grey car. It's parked in front of AJs ex house. Other imagery I have shows it in neighbour's driveway.

Ta muchly x
 
  • #737
This could be something to take into consideration in a societal and historical sense:

Making Adoption Easier
Insight
SBS
4 March 2014

'Over the past few decades, local adoptions have substantially declined.

But the NSW Minister for Family and Community Services Pru Goward is pushing for more kids in care to be adopted – a move that could transform the adoption landscape across the country.

She tells Insight that parents whose kids have been removed should be given a limited timeframe 'to turn their life around", and that adoption should be prioritised above foster care.'

Pru Goward (*now Brad Hazzard)

'Pru Goward is the NSW Minister for Family and Community Services. She is advocating for legal reforms that would make it easier to adopt young children who have been permanently removed from their parents by child protection authorities. She would like to see adoption prioritised over foster care for these children as a way of giving them permanency at a young age.'

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/tvepisode/making-adoption-easier

Link to NSW FaCS' Consultation Report (.PDF 5.68MB):

http://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/__data/a.../A_Safe_Home_For_Life_Consultation_Report.pdf

Open adoption now a reality in NSW
Media release archive
Gabrielle Upton
Minister for NSW Department of Family and Community Services
10 Nov 2014

'Recent changes to NSW child protection laws have made it easier for children who are unable to live with their parents to be adopted by a suitable family, Minister for Family and Community Services, Gabrielle Upton, said today.

At the beginning of National Adoption Awareness Week, Minister Upton said changes to adoption laws have streamlined processes for foster carers, step-parents, relatives or those wishing to adopt a child in NSW.

The new laws are part of the Safe Home for Life reform package that took effect on 29 October [2014].'

https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/about_u...elle-upton/open-adoption-now-a-reality-in-nsw
 
  • #738
THE person who abducted toddler William Tyrell may have laid in wait until the nearby houses were empty before striking, a neighbour believes.

Judy Wilson, whose property adjoins William’s grandmother’s backyard, believes it may be more than just coincidence that the child disappeared only after she went to run errands in town.

She said someone could have been waiting for her to leave, potentially aware that the neighbour on the other side was also away.

“If someone was watching the house, they would’ve seen me leave and would’ve known the other neighbour was away, she said.'

'Mrs Wilson also told how William’s father frantically searched her yard over and over again into the night.

“He was just walking around crying. He kept asking me if there was anywhere else he could’ve been hiding here,” Mrs Wilson said. “He just looked devastated.”

Mrs Wilson said she heard the two children playing in the neighbouring yard before she left to run errands in the township about 90 minutes before William disappeared, just metre’s from her home.'

https://www.google.com.au/url?q=htt...CB4wBg&usg=AFQjCNGGHY4RIuCWC7aX7r6W5x4PloOeZg

Why does this have my whiskers twitching? :cat:

Can someone refresh my memory about William's FGM's former neighbours, the Wilsons, please?

  1. I thought Mr Wilson was at home at the time his wife left, (from memory, isn't he the neighbour who said his wife left home(?) at [the very precise] time of 10:28am that morning?), and he was at home during the time she was away?
  2. Is he also the neighbour who went walking with his dog, to search for William almost immediately?
  3. Was it mentioned anywhere which colour and make of car(s) they owned?
  4. Is there AV of neighbours being interviewed anywhere?
  5. Are they among the neighbours who have subsequently 'sold up'? If so, when?
Not inferring either Mr or Mrs W. of being involved in William's disappearance; just curious about a few things is all (and we all know the effect that has on cats!)

this whole scenario has interested me right from the start, just a feeling, and yes they have moved since
 
  • #739
It is a planetary alignment

1. William had to come up from Sydney to be at FGMs which happens once in a blue moon

2. The neighbours had gone on holiday

3. The Mrs Wilson gone out to run errands

4. FF had gone out to run some errands

5. It was the last time William would be at the house which was for sale.

6 FM had gone inside

7. FGM had gone inside

8. The abductor had to hope that this all happened in the one in a million chance William would actually be in the backyard on his lonesome for the opportunity to be snatched unabated.

Now that is amazing for an off the chance abduction

THE person who abducted toddler William Tyrell may have laid in wait until the nearby houses were empty before striking, a neighbour believes.

Judy Wilson, whose property adjoins William’s grandmother’s backyard, believes it may be more than just coincidence that the child disappeared only after she went to run errands in town.

She said someone could have been waiting for her to leave, potentially aware that the neighbour on the other side was also away.

“If someone was watching the house, they would’ve seen me leave and would’ve known the other neighbour was away, she said.'

'Mrs Wilson also told how William’s father frantically searched her yard over and over again into the night.

“He was just walking around crying. He kept asking me if there was anywhere else he could’ve been hiding here,” Mrs Wilson said. “He just looked devastated.”

Mrs Wilson said she heard the two children playing in the neighbouring yard before she left to run errands in the township about 90 minutes before William disappeared, just metre’s from her home.'

https://www.google.com.au/url?q=htt...CB4wBg&usg=AFQjCNGGHY4RIuCWC7aX7r6W5x4PloOeZg

Why does this have my whiskers twitching? :cat:

Can someone refresh my memory about William's FGM's former neighbours, the Wilsons, please?

  1. I thought Mr Wilson was at home at the time his wife left, (from memory, isn't he the neighbour who said his wife left home(?) at [the very precise] time of 10:28am that morning?), and he was at home during the time she was away?
  2. Is he also the neighbour who went walking with his dog, to search for William almost immediately?
  3. Was it mentioned anywhere which colour and make of car(s) they owned?
  4. Is there AV of neighbours being interviewed anywhere?
  5. Are they among the neighbours who have subsequently 'sold up'? If so, when?
Not inferring either Mr or Mrs W. of being involved in William's disappearance; just curious about a few things is all (and we all know the effect that has on cats!)
 
  • #740
Have police checked under the surrounding houses for anything suspicious?

The entire street has been for sale
 
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