Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #24

[bearbear]

paraphrased from the australian....fear fills void little boy left
mrs judy wilson says "we never thought it was someone from town"
she has since moved from benaroon drive, but in september 2014 she lived in the property that adjoins williams grandmothers backyard,
during the days after william vanished she couldnt shake the feeling that williams abductor had waited for her to go into rown to run errands before activating their dark plan too horrible to dwell on
she also says "they think of william every day and think of him alive

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...d/news-story/2d8aa4bde6c83ded451c26090fb55643

 

[bearbear]

Neighbour Paul Savage was one of the first to start searching for William after his frantic neighbour screamed that he was missing.
"If he had wandered, he would have been found," Savage says.
"When I go for a walk you still find yourself keeping an eye out, hoping for a scream or a yell and not a horrible smell.
"I don't know how his family has coped, it must be torture for them."
All the homes in the estate were searched. And then searched again.
Missing kids are found hiding under beds and in cupboards more times than wandering the streets. But not in this case.
"We have had police through three times," Richard Wilson says.
"Every cupboard, they have had a look in the ceilings, have had a look in the boots of cars."

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2833053/william-tyrell-how-a-boy-vanished-into-thin-air/

 

[richieswan]

...........

Can someone refresh my memory about William's FGM's former neighbours, the Wilsons, please?

1. I thought Mr Wilson was at home at the time his wife left, (from memory, isn't he the neighbour who said his wife left home(?) at [the very precise] time of 10:28am that morning?), and he was at home during the time she was away?
3. Is he also the neighbour who went walking with his dog, to search for William almost immediately?
5. Was it mentioned anywhere which colour and make of car(s) they owned?
7. Is there AV of neighbours being interviewed anywhere?
9. Are they among the neighbours who have subsequently 'sold up'? If so, when?

Not inferring either Mr or Mrs W. of being involved in William's disappearance; just curious about a few things is all (and we all know the effect that has on cats!)

RSBM

Audio interview with the neighbours one year after disappearance.

How the three-year-old vanished in a perfect storm of bad luck

https://youtu.be/nVMrYG_NSVI

 

[Violet77]

Just heard on the radio news that police have received at least 100 calls (I think that's the number I heard) since the announcement of the $1 million reward... Let's hope some of them are legitimate calls


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bohemian]

RSBM

Audio interview with the neighbours one year after disappearance.

How the three-year-old vanished in a perfect storm of bad luck

https://youtu.be/nVMrYG_NSVI

Thank you, richie, the font of all recorded knowledge :loveyou:

 

[Karinna]

Does anyone know the stats. on stranger abductions of very young children around 3-4 yr. old age group in Australia? I looked on the internet and couldn't really find anything. Most were family/parental kidnappings. Probably in custody disputes i would imagine. I think a stranger abduction of someone WT's age would be very very rare. Mostly it is older children that a stranger tries to lure, kids walking home from school etc.

 

[Karinna]

This could be something to take into consideration in a societal and historical sense:

Making Adoption Easier
Insight
SBS
4 March 2014

'Over the past few decades, local adoptions have substantially declined.

But the NSW Minister for Family and Community Services Pru Goward is pushing for more kids in care to be adopted – a move that could transform the adoption landscape across the country.

She tells Insight that parents whose kids have been removed should be given a limited timeframe 'to turn their life around", and that adoption should be prioritised above foster care.'

Pru Goward (*now Brad Hazzard)

'Pru Goward is the NSW Minister for Family and Community Services. She is advocating for legal reforms that would make it easier to adopt young children who have been permanently removed from their parents by child protection authorities. She would like to see adoption prioritised over foster care for these children as a way of giving them permanency at a young age.'

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/tvepisode/making-adoption-easier

Link to NSW FaCS' Consultation Report (.PDF 5.68MB):

http://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/__data/a.../A_Safe_Home_For_Life_Consultation_Report.pdf

Open adoption now a reality in NSW
Media release archive
Gabrielle Upton
Minister for NSW Department of Family and Community Services
10 Nov 2014

'Recent changes to NSW child protection laws have made it easier for children who are unable to live with their parents to be adopted by a suitable family, Minister for Family and Community Services, Gabrielle Upton, said today.

At the beginning of National Adoption Awareness Week, Minister Upton said changes to adoption laws have streamlined processes for foster carers, step-parents, relatives or those wishing to adopt a child in NSW.

The new laws are part of the Safe Home for Life reform package that took effect on 29 October [2014].'

https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/about_u...elle-upton/open-adoption-now-a-reality-in-nsw

How is that relevent to WT? Was he adopted? Was he in the process of becoming adopted? Wouldn't the biological parents have to be agreeable to the adoption? I don't think they can just take people's children and adopt them out without permission? Wouldn't that also depend on the circumstances surrounding why a child was taken from the bio's in the first place? And what if their situation changes and they want their child/ren back? And can extended family members have the option of adopting the children first? I can see if a child is an orphan that adoption would be favorable if there were no other family members willing to adopt. But i think we have to be very careful in what rights we let Govt. action when it comes to our children. I have also read about people on a forum whose children were wrongfully taken by the state and the huge difficulty they have then to go through the Court system in getting their child back. It's a horrible situation for them. So there is always two sides to a story.

 

[Bohemian]

Does anyone know the stats. on stranger abductions of very young children around 3-4 yr. old age group in Australia? I looked on the internet and couldn't really find anything. Most were family/parental kidnappings. Probably in custody disputes i would imagine. I think a stranger abduction of someone WT's age would be very very rare. Mostly it is older children that a stranger tries to lure, kids walking home from school etc.

Search here:

http://aic.gov.au/publications.html

and:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...c..34.mobile-heirloom-serp..0.0.0.r_h-yWVctds

 

[Bohemian]

How is that relevent to WT? Was he adopted? Was he in the process of becoming adopted? Wouldn't the biological parents have to be agreeable to the adoption? I don't think they can just take people's children and adopt them out without permission? Wouldn't that also depend on the circumstances surrounding why a child was taken from the bio's in the first place? And what if their situation changes and they want their child/ren back? And can extended family members have the option of adopting the children first? I can see if a child is an orphan that adoption would be favorable if there were no other family members willing to adopt. But i think we have to be very careful in what rights we let Govt. action when it comes to our children. I have also read about people on a forum whose children were wrongfully taken by the state and the huge difficulty they have then to go through the Court system in getting their child back. It's a horrible situation for them. So there is always two sides to a story.

1. William is/was allegedly a foster child.
2. Not AFAIK.
3. Ditto.
4. Read the information in the links I included above.
5. Ditto.
6. Yes.
7. Adoption is final.
8. Read the information in the links I included above.
9. Agreed.

 

[Karinna]

Search here:

http://aic.gov.au/publications.html

Thanks for posting up the link. Under which heading is there about stranger abductions of 3-4 yr. olds, because there are quite a few headings in that link, TIA?

 

[Bohemian]

Use the search function and put in similar search parameters as I have in this Google search, ie; victim offender relationship, child abduction, kidnapping, etc:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...c..34.mobile-heirloom-serp..0.0.0.r_h-yWVctds

 

[Karinna]

Use the search function and put in similarsearch parameters as I have in this Google search, ie; vuctim offender relationships child abductions, kidnapping, etc:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...c..34.mobile-heirloom-serp..0.0.0.r_h-yWVctds

Thanks Bohemian, a lot of info. there to have to wade through LOL. I was thinking more along the lines of what child around WT's age group have we heard of that has been abducted by a total stranger that has been a high profile case in the news? I couldn't think of any. I know the sad case of the Beaumont children has never been solved and there were three children from memory.

 

[ozazure]

I don't think the abductor attempts this crime with a long list of perfect circumstances that need to be fulfilled for him or her to pull the trigger. For all we know the plan was to abduct both children from their beds and disappear into the forest, and William appearing unsupervised in their line of sight, no neighbours visible, radically changed the plan. 1 in the hand better than two in the bush so to say. An abduction is super risky, at any point someone can appear and be a witness to what you are doing. But even being spotted doesn't equal being stopped or caught, there are many abductions which are undertaken in view of others who either don't intervene, attempt to unsuccessfully or don't realise what's happening. Aside from the one moment of actually snatching the child, the rest of what you do can look quite inconspicuous. We can't use backward logic in that because they were undetected at the time and so far not caught, that this was carefully planned in order to be that way. It could have been just as likely that William's mother rounded the corner as someone began to approach William and she had nothing more than an unsettling experience with someone in the front yard at her Mum's.

 

[Karinna]

BBM - Incorrect AFAIK

If Bio's had lost all parental rights to a child, their permission isn't needed IMO.

Can you cite any info on that with parents losing all parental rights please? I think you would have to do something extreme to lose all parental rights? I know even abused children get returned to parents after they enter some kind of rehab. programme etc.

 

[deugirtni]

Thank You D. Awesome poste and great work on the timeline in my opinion.

This is the stuff I have puzzled over.

I am sure parents of little boys will join me in wondering how do you get them to sleep past maximum 7am ( and that would be due to extreme tiredness, late night, dark room, silence around ..) all of which could have been the scenario at FG that morning.

Therefore I am sure William & his sister would have been awake & active way before FD left if that was 9.15 am.

Perhaps that was the 'swap over' point. .. Perhaps the deal with Mum & Dad was that she would have a sleep-in until Dad needed to leave, at which point she would be up and take over the care of the kids.

in that situation, anyone watching / listening out, would have had quite a few hours of knowledge that the kids were there, and to them make plans, position themselves within very easy reach, hand over mouth (perhaps chlorformed) .. No sound would have been heard.

Thanks, but I can't take credit for the timeline, it came straight from the linked article. Next door neighbour heard children playing in the yard at 9am, prior to FD leaving the home. The children had already been riding their bikes in the driveway according to some articles. FM reportedly later on, after FD left, dressed WT in his Spidey costume, and at 9:45am took his photo without his shoes on. Later she put him in a celery tree, and the children played chasies and daddy lion in the lawn. Just over an hour later, when FM called 000 she seemed (imo) not to remember whether WT was wearing shoes, since the operator specifically asked her about that, and she did not answer. It has been said both that the dogs 'found no scent of WT', and that they 'found no scent of him past the driveway'. I am wondering if they caught his scent at the tree, or along the path in the lawn where he ran back and forth. So much missing information! moo

 

[BethInAK]

After reading some but not all of the discussion I have a couple of questions:
1) is there any actual evidence to suggest this child was abducted or just a lack of evidence he was lost? Except that the dogs didn't smell him (which may be nothing).

2). I wonder if he could have been hit by a car and someone took his body and dumped it elsewhere.

 

[Bohemian]

Thanks Bohemian, a lot of info. there to have to wade through LOL. I was thinking more along the lines of what child around WT's age group have we heard of that has been abducted by a total stranger that has been a high profile case in the news? I couldn't think of any. I know the sad case of the Beaumont children has never been solved and there were three children from memory.

Try this:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=....34.mobile-heirloom-serp..5.1.160.vWw2QTVWl58

(Sorry, getting ready for meeting.)

 

[tiddles24]

Can you cite any info on that with parents losing all parental rights please? I think you would have to do something extreme to lose all parental rights? I know even abused children get returned to parents after they enter some kind of rehab. programme etc.

Sorry I don't know the reason as to why William & sister L were taken from their bio parents. It would be against the rules here to state the reason & I don't want to break any rules. We need to be very careful about what we post...MOO..

 

[Bohemian]

I also thought i read on this case that the bio mother had visitation rights to her children or am i dreaming?

You can still have visitation rights to your biological children who are in out-of-home care. Also in the case of 'open adoption'.

 

[sleepinoz]

Can you cite any info on that with parents losing all parental rights please? I think you would have to do something extreme to lose all parental rights? I know even abused children get returned to parents after they enter some kind of rehab. programme etc.

I didn't say they did - I said "IF" they have.

Here is some info on Involuntary Termination of Parental Rights - https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/systemwide/laws-policies/statutes/groundtermin/

Also, Children under Guardianship orders - http://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/reforms/...me-for-life/guardianship/what-is-guardianship