Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #26

[Karinna]

I completely understand the presumption of innocence, frogwell. And the way it holds through our un-speedy trials.

I also understand that the courts and parole boards continuously sentence and release these creeps after ridiculously short sentences, protect their names and identities, allow them to change their names, do not allow a public national sex offenders registry, see them again and again in the court rooms, and sentence them with another ridiculously short sentence.
And years ago did not charge and prosecute so very MANY of them, due to ages of victims, due to protection of institutions, due to believing religious abusers over the violated children ... and on and on with the excuses.

Even though i agree with what you say here, we can't just convict someone in the Court of public opinion and enforce a lynch mob mentality with msn being complicit. Otherwise we could run around accusing whoever we had an issue with of crimes they have never committed, which does happen between spouses when there are divorce issues and one of them wants to get real nasty. Its certainly not unheard of.
There has to be evidence to prove a case. There should of been documented evidence against BS at the time of any of the crimes he stands accused of. And didn't they lose the transcripts of BS from the police interview back then? How convenient or not, i don't know.

 

[sosocurious]

The court had a letter from Spedding's wife Margaret has been tendered, offering surety and guaranteed residency if the washing machine repairman is granted bail., The hearing continues before Justice Geoffrey Bellew.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...y/news-story/9ca4201c0bbd0e6a7cd836b562a54a23

Maybe she gave him the boot..

 

[Karinna]

The court had a letter from Spedding's wife Margaret has been tendered, offering surety and guaranteed residency if the washing machine repairman is granted bail., The hearing continues before Justice Geoffrey Bellew.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...y/news-story/9ca4201c0bbd0e6a7cd836b562a54a23

Maybe she gave him the boot..

Yeah, you never know, lol.

 

[SouthAussie]

Even though i agree with what you say here, we can't just convict someone in the Court of public opinion and enforce a lynch mob mentality with msn being complicit. Otherwise we could run around accusing whoever we had an issue with of crimes they have never committed, which does happen between spouses when there are divorce issues and one of them wants to get real nasty. Its certainly not unheard of.
There has to be evidence to prove a case. There should of been documented evidence against BS at the time of any of the crimes he stands accused of. And didn't they lose the transcripts of BS from the police interview back then? How convenient or not, i don't know.

No, but we can certainly discuss it on WS and state our opinions ... without being reminded constantly that the presumption of innocence holds. And that people should not discuss Spedding's probable guilt until the court cases are over.

And Mako are certainly entitled to put up whatever they wish on their own personal website. Unless/until they are told by the police or courts to take it down. They perform a very useful service to Australians, due to the fact that the authorities will not perform that particular service of protection for the public.


(PS It is MSM, not MSN. Main Stream Media )

 

[Karinna]

No, but we can certainly discuss it on WS and state our opinions ... without being reminded constantly that the presumption of innocence holds. And that people should not discuss Spedding's probable guilt until the court cases are over.

And Mako are certainly entitled to put up whatever they wish on their own personal website. Unless/until they are told by the police or courts to take it down. They perform a very useful service to Australians, due to the fact that the authorities will not perform that particular service of protection for the public.


(PS It is MSM, not MSN. Main Stream Media )

MSN, Main Stream News, don't think it matters does it,
Of course people are entitled to their opinions on WS, but i don't think we should be making up our own facts, IMO. If BS is guilty he will be convicted by a jury of his peers. If he is found not guilty he is free from all charges. The presumption of Innocence is a big deal, as the whole judicial system is reliant on it.

 

[SouthAussie]

MSN, Main Stream News, don't think it matters does it,
Of course people are entitled to their opinions on WS, but i don't think we should be making up our own facts, IMO. If BS is guilty he will be convicted by a jury of his peers. If he is found not guilty he is free from all charges. The presumption of Innocence is a big deal, as the whole judicial system is reliant on it.

Who the heck is making up their own facts??? I certainly hope that is not directed at me. I reference all of my quoted posts, and have formed all of my opinions from police investigatory info.

MSM is actually the acronym used and referenced on WS. So that all members understand it.

No-one is saying the presumption of innocence is not a big deal. This is a discussion forum, not a court of law.

Done with this convo. Thanks, Karinna. :seeya:

 

[Karo]

There appears to be concrete evidence about Spedding's historical crimes. So why not warn people? Parents of young children/ carers/perhaps other victims and potential victims, do not need to be unaware until the very slow, arduous court process is completed. There are far too many children already suffering abuse at repeat offenders hands, due to our cr*p sentencing laws, and previous societal attitudes.

Yes, a lawsuit is his possible come-back .. should he somehow escape conviction of the charges. But he is already in jail for something, and it would not surprise me in the least if he was acting extremely inappropriately with one or more of the 3 young boys who had lived under his roof.

If he is currently in jail for driving offences or something else unrelated to child sex abuse charges, there is no reason that MSM would not reveal the reason why he is in jail.


BBM:

What concrete evidence?
I have seen nothing except historical allegations and he was not charged or convicted at the time, so what evidence can there be, not sure why that statement has been made, locals have said they have seen him, so I don't think it's possible he is in prison.

 

[SouthAussie]

What concrete evidence?
I have seen nothing except historical allegations and he was not charged or convicted at the time, so what evidence can there be, not sure why that statement has been made, locals have said they have seen him, so I don't think it's possible he is in prison.

I said I was done with this convo, Karo. Thanks. :seeya:

You can read back through the posts and references and bolded sections, if you wish to continue with someone else or on your own.

 

[Karo]

No one is complling you to reply, terribly sorry if I touched a nerve, I am just interested in the concrete evidence that was suggested.
See you

I said I was done with this convo, Karo. Thanks. :seeya:

You can read back through the posts and references and bolded sections, if you wish to continue with someone else or on your own.

 

[Karinna]

What concrete evidence?
I have seen nothing except historical allegations and he was not charged or convicted at the time, so what evidence can there be, not sure why that statement has been made, locals have said they have seen him, so I don't think it's possible he is in prison.

BBM, Hi Karo, well that clears that up then, I didn't think he was in prison or the news would of been all over that IMO

 

[Karinna]

Who the heck is making up their own facts??? I certainly hope that is not directed at me. I reference all of my quoted posts, and have formed all of my opinions from police investigatory info.

MSM is actually the acronym used and referenced on WS. So that all members understand it.

No-one is saying the presumption of innocence is not a big deal. This is a discussion forum, not a court of law.

Done with this convo. Thanks, Karinna. :seeya:

BBM, Posters that have accused him in the court of public opinion. Even the media have stated "alleged" charges. So nothing proven yet.
And hope you don't mind my responding at the post directed at me.

 

[sosocurious]

What concrete evidence?
I have seen nothing except historical allegations and he was not charged or convicted at the time, so what evidence can there be, not sure why that statement has been made, locals have said they have seen him, so I don't think it's possible he is in prison.

.

BBM
Police said charges were not pursued at that time "due to concerns of the welfare of the victims given their tender age".
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...phile-ring-police-allege-20150423-1mrvj7.html

The court documents also allege Mr Spedding threatened his two victims not to tell anyone about what had taken place.
“The above practices were usually preceded or reinforced after the fact with threats not to tell anyone what had occurred or the accused would tell the police and they would ‘take mum away’,” police allege.
“There were also threats made to one (victim) that if they disclosed what had taken place, the other (victim) would be harmed.”
Both alleged victims reported the abuse in 1987, the statement of facts allege. Their claims were also supported by medical evidence and case notes from the time, police allege.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...d/news-story/60e517cfba665cfb3adc60b763b674d4

One alleged victim told police “the accused has directly lobbied her for a declaration that states he did not sexually abuse her or similar when she was a child”.
After his arrest on Wednesday, this alleged victim received calls and a text message from a “third party” known to Mr Spedding, which read, “It really saddens me you’re involved in this”, the documents allege.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...phile-ring-police-allege-20150423-1mrvj7.html

It seems BS stay of proceeding was denied.
So there must be some solid evidence for the cases in 2 states to have proceeded thus far.
Is he in custody or on bail, does it really matter?
He is about to face a possible 5 week trial, presumably before 6 July. Then it will be decided if he will face a trial in Victoria.
Just as BS is entitled to presumption of innocence. The alleged victims are entitled to seek justice and we the public are entitled to opinion.
Could this all really be just a huge coincidence?
imo

 

[sleepinoz]

BBM, Hi Karo, well that clears that up then, I didn't think he was in prison or the news would of been all over that IMO

So local rumors are to believed over what is said in MSM. Websleuths does not run on rumors.

 

[sleepinoz]

BBM, Posters that have accused him in the court of public opinion. Even the media have stated "alleged" charges. So nothing proven yet.
And hope you don't mind my responding at the post directed at me.

The charges are certainly NOT "alleged" - he's been charged in 2 different States. The crimes are "alleged" until proven.

Being charged in 2 States means that all information has been looked at by 2 different Police forces, if there was not enough evidence to proceed, they wouldn't proceed.

I fail to understand why some do not like BS being discussed in the court of public opinion and here on WS even though he is a POI in Williams disappearance and has been charged with historical sexual abuse in not 1 but 2 States. Yet on the other hand, are quite willing to implicate others as being guilty of various crimes. :thinking:

 

[Karinna]

The charges are certainly NOT "alleged" - he's been charged in 2 different States. The crimes are "alleged" until proven.

Being charged in 2 States means that all information has been looked at by 2 different Police forces, if there was not enough evidence to proceed, they wouldn't proceed.

I fail to understand why some do not like BS being discussed in the court of public opinion and here on WS even though he is a POI in Williams disappearance and has been charged with historical sexual abuse in not 1 but 2 States. Yet on the other hand, are quite willing to implicate others as being guilty of various crimes. :thinking:

The crimes he has been charged with are alleged then. I really don't care that people discuss him, but he retains the presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law, and that is everyone's legal right as far as i know. Just like any other person is allowed their day in court.
I'm not sure what you're talking about with "willing to implicate others of being guilty of various crimes"? What others and what crimes?

 

[Karinna]

.

BBM
Police said charges were not pursued at that time "due to concerns of the welfare of the victims given their tender age".
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...phile-ring-police-allege-20150423-1mrvj7.html

The court documents also allege Mr Spedding threatened his two victims not to tell anyone about what had taken place.
“The above practices were usually preceded or reinforced after the fact with threats not to tell anyone what had occurred or the accused would tell the police and they would ‘take mum away’,” police allege.
“There were also threats made to one (victim) that if they disclosed what had taken place, the other (victim) would be harmed.”
Both alleged victims reported the abuse in 1987, the statement of facts allege. Their claims were also supported by medical evidence and case notes from the time, police allege.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...d/news-story/60e517cfba665cfb3adc60b763b674d4

One alleged victim told police “the accused has directly lobbied her for a declaration that states he did not sexually abuse her or similar when she was a child”.
After his arrest on Wednesday, this alleged victim received calls and a text message from a “third party” known to Mr Spedding, which read, “It really saddens me you’re involved in this”, the documents allege.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...phile-ring-police-allege-20150423-1mrvj7.html

It seems BS stay of proceeding was denied.
So there must be some solid evidence for the cases in 2 states to have proceeded thus far.
Is he in custody or on bail, does it really matter?
He is about to face a possible 5 week trial, presumably before 6 July. Then it will be decided if he will face a trial in Victoria.
Just as BS is entitled to presumption of innocence. The alleged victims are entitled to seek justice and we the public are entitled to opinion.
Could this all really be just a huge coincidence?
imo

If you take the whole historic case in its totality it is questionable IMO. There is room for BARD, considering the circumstances at the time from what i have read. Whether BS did those things i have no idea, but it will have to be proven in a court of law to secure a conviction or he will be acquitted. And that's all i'm saying.

 

[sosocurious]

The crimes he has been charged with are alleged then. I really don't care that people discuss him, but he retains the presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law, and that is everyone's legal right as far as i know. Just like any other person is allowed their day in court.
I'm not sure what you're talking about with "willing to implicate others of being guilty of various crimes"? What others and what crimes?

The rights of alleged victims are to be heard in a court of law if evidence suggest a crime has been committed.
imo

 

[Karinna]

The rights of alleged victims are to be heard in a court of law if evidence suggest a crime has been committed.
imo

Of course, & that goes without saying and the reason there is going to be a trial. They will all have their day in court, something that should of happened a long time ago already, for obvious reasons.

 

[sosocurious]

If you take the whole historic case in its totality it is questionable IMO. There is room for BARD, considering the circumstances at the time from what i have read. Whether BS did those things i have no idea, but it will have to be proven in a court of law to secure a conviction or he will be acquitted. And that's all i'm saying.

Yes I agree. That is exactly why we have trials and juries.
So as both the prosecution and defense can put forward evidence to the jury on behalf of their clients.
If BS is found to be innocent then he will be a free man when he heads to Victoria to face further charges in that state.
imo

 

[sleepinoz]

The presumption of innocence is a great thing for the court to adhere to. Yet many many Australians have had much to say about our court system in regard to lenient sentences, legal loopholes etc.

To solve crimes I'd rather stay on the Police side of things - Guilty until Proven Innocent, first by evidence then by a court of law.