Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #26

[iailwa]

I just wanted to refer you to a recent post I made, iailwa:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...l-NSW-12-Sept-2014-26&p=13592512#post13592512

Granted it has been almost a year since DCI Jubelin made those statements to MSM but when you compare three years to the seven years it took to gather enough evidence to arrest Daniel Morcombe's murderer and the five decades to do the same to Cheryl Grimmer's, it may put the time taken to investigate William's disappearance into context. Each crime is different, each investigation is different and of varying degrees of complexity so really there is no definitive amount of time in which a crime should be solved. I know it's frustrating and it seems as if nothing is happening, or happening 'fast enough', but we need to put our faith in the members of Strike Force Rosann. If they needed information from the public to move forward with their investigation into William's disappearance, I trust that they would waste no time in asking for it.

Great post but with differences, as you say. Cheryl dissapeaed 40 +? years ago or so, when investigations were much less sophisticated. In Daniel's case there was a guy standing behind him (but no CCTV, & no speeding vehicles seen leaving the area). Also, investigations have improved since then. I just think the lack of public knowledge could be hindering the investigation. I know the police are wanting more than anything to find his anductor, but really, they will have less info unless they share. Each case is different as you say, and difficult to compare. Alas

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It's none of our business why William and his sibling were in care or for how long, extremely poor of anyone to disclose the situation while his sibling is still there, in my opinion. The lengths some people have gone to, to put this family in the public eye, is very disturbing.

IMO, it's not successful enough by the Facebook group to have revealed that little spiderman was in foster care. The time was ready to open up by government/media about the fact, BOTH children, William and his sister, were in foster care. Now we have the next secret pending. - If being in foster care, "something wasn't right" with the bio family - that's easy and always to the point. Reasons are different and manifold.
Btw: I have a young relative who is adopted because the bio mother didn't feel able to grow her child. The foster parents suddenly got the newborn baby out of hospital and then had to wait for years to finally get the sign on the adoption papers. The child/now Twen knows she is adopted since she could understand the explanation. For several years the parents didn't know there was at least one other child adopted too (bio mother had lied about the fact, official papers were wrong) and they met the boy by chance one day when they had connected with a parents of adopted child's group - there he appeared: a brother or half brother (unknown) to their adopted child!

 

[Bohemian]

I'm probably expressing myself clumsily, but I didn't mean to imply consensus by "generally", I was using it in contrast to the idea that I was talking to/about P&G there specifically. I'm not going back to the last thread to do a statistical analysis of who said what. I think I read it fairly skimmingly because while an occasional reminder to focus can be useful, an all-in argument about what we should be talking about . . . doesn't appeal to me. And now I'm perpetuating it and too tired to be diplomatic.

Maybe I'll come back to what you're saying about the court case later, like Saturday. Now I just can't. I hope P&G is OK, I didn't mean to upset her.

Never mind love. I can't speak for p&g but all that matters to me is that you and I can be civil to one another throughout such a particularly frustrating and sad case as is William's. My equally clumsy self appreciates that more than you'll ever know. Night hon x

 

[frogwell]

Friends of the family? Maybe. Extended (distant) family? Maybe. Let me assure you no member of my immediate family, ie; those that are trusted carers of the children in our family, is a 'pedo', nor do they have 'a substance abuse problem'.

I will qualify my statement as you responded to it. I did mean extended family and I meant family and friends of any children's friends. Somewhere in that group there will be 1. Also extended family are included in substance abuse issues, including alcohol and prescription medication. From my own experience between the ages of 10 and 15 I can think of more than 10 times of being minorly sexually assaulted from friend's relatives, a school teacher, people on public transport, etc. All perpetrators were adults aware that I was a child. All my friends had some experience of this behaviour as well and it wasn't like we expected it to be normal behaviour. I don't think most of these people fell under the DSMV category, at least I hope not.No one was ever even complained about let alone prosecuted for this behaviour. I do not think am the unluckiest person in the world, I do not think the behaviour is normal. My experience is that it is everywhere.

The ignore button is our friend.

 

[frogwell]

Yes I hope the culprit is not here, but it wouldn't be the first time. A few years back a person was actually arrested for incriminating posts on webslueths - they posted too much info that only the perp would know. Websleuths can & will attract perpetrators, it's just human nature (inserting themselves, reading of their deeds, sicko really!)

I'd like to know that case and browse the thread.

 

[Bohemian]

I will qualify my statement as you responded to it. I did mean extended family and I meant family and friends of any children's friends. Somewhere in that group there will be 1. Also extended family are included in substance abuse issues, including alcohol and prescription medication. From my own experience between the ages of 10 and 15 I can think of more than 10 times of being minorly sexually assaulted from friend's relatives, a school teacher, people on public transport, etc. All my friends had some experience of this behaviour as well and it wasn't like we expected it to be normal behaviour. I don't think most of these people fell under the DSMV category, at least I hope not.No one was ever even complained about let alone prosecuted for this behaviour. I do not think am the unluckiest person in the world, I do not think the behaviour is normal. My experience is that it is everywhere.

The ignore button is our friend.

I am sorry that you had to experience being sexually assaulted, even if 'minorly' by anyone when you were a child. I'm also female and have had similar experiences, the details of which I won't divulge here, so I can empathise with you.

 

[iailwa]

Here's the DSM5 diagnostic criteria for those interested:

Pedophilic Disorder
Diagnostic Criteria 302.2 (F65.4)
A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).
B. The individual has acted on these sexual urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.
C. The individual is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.
Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old.
Specify whether:
Exclusive type (attracted only to children)
Nonexclusive type
Specify if:
Sexually attracted to males
Sexually attracted to females
Sexually attracted to both
Specify if:
Limited to incest

Edit: I have a PDF of DSM-5, not sure where it came from now. I've been trying to find a link to attach here without success.

Thanks for this... I take it that "note - do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12 or 13 year old" might rule out the foster brother as a pedo in TP's murder? Bummer! 🙁

 

[iailwa]

I'd like to know that case and browse the thread.

Here's the article I read about it from. If you scroll to the bottom it has the name of the woman and the man she murdered.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/webs...ping-police-solve-crimes-20150428-1mutek.html

 

[Wexford]

I think I recall an interview very early on in the piece with KT in a blackened room....I might be wrong. But what would they have to say?
I believe they had visits but I doubt 'they' had much to do with his uprbring and day to day life.
There was a reason 'they' didn't have him any longer but what good would that do to talk publicly about that sadness.

Unless they know who took him but that's another story.

It'd be interesting how much money has been offered already by 60minutes and ACA.

I think you maybe mean this article? Related to the WT case but not about KT at all. This article states that he had 3 kids in care and that they were removed but only talks about one being this mother's. I am not sure why. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...e/news-story/73350ebd1be700109fa5a5eb5bb06d0c

 

[JLZ]

Thanks for this... I take it that "note - do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12 or 13 year old" might rule out the foster brother as a pedo in TP's murder? Bummer! ��

The criteria are for a psychiatric disorder. They don't have anything to do with legal culpability.

Something else I found interesting was that DSM-5 goes on to distinguish between pedophilic disorder and pedophilic sexual orientation, the latter being apparently a subclinical condition. Someone who has pedophilic fantasies but never acts on them and isn't particularly bothered about them would have pedophilic sexual orientation but not pedophilic disorder. This made me wonder what would count as action, for example would consumption qualify?

 

[gregjrichards]

"Missing boy William Tyrrell is the nephew of a 5 Seconds of Summer rock star.
Daily Mail Australia can reveal 5SOS guitarist Michael Clifford, 21, and the toddler's biological dad Brendan, 36, share the same father, Daryl Clifford.

The surprising family connection between Australia's most famous missing boy and one of the world's hottest bands can be disclosed after a landmark court decision.
William's grandmother, Natalie Collins, said she was in a relationship with Daryl, from Sydney's west, in the 1980s."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...5-Seconds-Summer-guitarist.html#ixzz4rNbppRgV

 

[Bohemian]

"Missing boy William Tyrrell is the nephew of a 5 Seconds of Summer rock star.
Daily Mail Australia can reveal 5SOS guitarist Michael Clifford, 21, and the toddler's biological dad Brendan, 36, share the same father, Daryl Clifford.

The surprising family connection between Australia's most famous missing boy and one of the world's hottest bands can be disclosed after a landmark court decision.
William's grandmother, Natalie Collins, said she was in a relationship with Daryl, from Sydney's west, in the 1980s."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...5-Seconds-Summer-guitarist.html#ixzz4rNbppRgV

Thank you, Greg. And so the media frenzy begins . . .

 

[Bohemian]

'Ms Collins claimed the Clifford family briefly gave William and his parents a place to live when he was a baby.

'William lived with Daryl and Karen and Michael for a few months when he was a baby,' she said.
'They took Karlie and Brendan in to live with them'.

It's understood the Clifford family had only a minor involvement in William's life.

There is no suggestion any member of William's family or foster family were involved in his disappearance.

A 5SOS spokeswoman said it was 'unlikely' the band or its management would comment, and did not provide a comment despite an extended deadline.

Daryl Clifford did not respond to requests for comment.'
​

Source:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...5-Seconds-Summer-guitarist.html#ixzz4rNbppRgV

 

[Bohemian]

WHO'S WHO IN WILLIAM TYRRELL'S FAMILY?

• William's biological parents were named last week as Karlie Tyrrell and her partner, Brendan.
• Brendan's mother, Natalie Collins, is the boy's outspoken grandmother.
• Brendan's father was Daryl Clifford.
• Daryl and his second partner Karen later had 5SOS guitarist Michael, who would be Brendan's half-brother and William's half-uncle.
• William was taken into foster care when he was about nine months old.
• His foster parents are from Sydney's north shore.
• They have asked to remain anonymous.
• William vanished from his foster grandmother's home on September 12, 2014.

Source:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...5-Seconds-Summer-guitarist.html#ixzz4rNbppRgV

 

[sosocurious]

WHO'S WHO IN WILLIAM TYRRELL'S FAMILY?

• William's biological parents were named last week as Karlie Tyrrell and her partner, Brendan.
• Brendan's mother, Natalie Collins, is the boy's outspoken grandmother.
• Brendan's father was Daryl Clifford.
• Daryl and his second partner Karen later had 5SOS guitarist Michael, who would be Brendan's half-brother and William's half-uncle.
• William was taken into foster care when he was about nine months old.
• His foster parents are from Sydney's north shore.
• They have asked to remain anonymous.
• William vanished from his foster grandmother's home on September 12, 2014.

Source:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...5-Seconds-Summer-guitarist.html#ixzz4rNbppRgV

Is Brendan using his step fathers name?

 

[Wexford]

"Missing boy William Tyrrell is the nephew of a 5 Seconds of Summer rock star.
Daily Mail Australia can reveal 5SOS guitarist Michael Clifford, 21, and the toddler's biological dad Brendan, 36, share the same father, Daryl Clifford.

The surprising family connection between Australia's most famous missing boy and one of the world's hottest bands can be disclosed after a landmark court decision.
William's grandmother, Natalie Collins, said she was in a relationship with Daryl, from Sydney's west, in the 1980s."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...5-Seconds-Summer-guitarist.html#ixzz4rNbppRgV

This info was outed a while ago by a cousin on a news social media page and then deleted although not before someone screenshot it so it is still out there in social media world. Im surprised the media didnt leap on it then (or am I)? It could explain a lot about the secrecy. Certainly Michael Clifford does not appear to identify as having a brother or half brother. Brendan does use both surnames as we have discussed once before regarding ABN numbers.

 

[iailwa]

The criteria are for a psychiatric disorder. They don't have anything to do with legal culpability.

Something else I found interesting was that DSM-5 goes on to distinguish between pedophilic disorder and pedophilic sexual orientation, the latter being apparently a subclinical condition. Someone who has pedophilic fantasies but never acts on them and isn't particularly bothered about them would have pedophilic sexual orientation but not pedophilic disorder. This made me wonder what would count as action, for example would consumption qualify?

I'm not sure of the legalities but it sounds like you know more about the law. Surely forensic psychiatrists can't pull things out of their hats willy nilly? That's a good question!!! I would have thought not, but then if it includes looking at 'child ' - I imagine that would qualify, as would sharing it with other like minded scum. Possessing child is illegal isn't it?

 

[Bohemian]

Is Brendan using his step fathers name?

He has used both surnames AFAIK.

 

[frogwell]

This case just gets weirder and weirder for me. I knew Karen and Daryl for a brief time in the early 90's. I remember them as really lovely people. 6 degrees of separation indeed.

 

[Wexford]

Interesting to see if Caroline Overington has a comment now. I believe it was this that she referred to.