Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #27

[frogwell]

Why do you think it's odd? I mean, it might be a sign that the child is problematic and needs extra supervision, if that's where you're going, but in that case I doubt she'd be mentioning the child to the reporter. Otherwise, it's not strange that a father wants to live near his son? Or do you think it suggests something odd about the father, that he's keeping on watch on his former partner?

Without sleuthing any particular children, does anyone think this could be the crime of a child, concealed by adults?

The theory about protecting a child has occurred to me in relation to about 4 households on Benaroon Drive, possibly 5 if we could get information on the house opposite the fgm at the end of Benaroon drive. Not necessarily children, but varying ages for offspring from teenage to full adults.

 

[sosocurious]

yes, either of them, the wilsons property is directly along the back/ side of gmas, i think both men were home, mrs wilson was the neighbour who went out just before it happened and she had heard the children playing, unsure if mr w was home?

Ms Wilson is quoted as saying her husband wasn't home.

When she returned, the street was in chaos.
“I wasn’t home and my husband wasn’t home. The only thing I was able to tell police was that I heard the children playing but didn’t see them … I just heard kids laughing and you could tell they were little children,” Mrs Wilson said.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...r/news-story/03fb14d003bfb73d3c193b5f6731f74c
TODDLER WILLIAM TYRRELL’S DISAPPEARANCE STILL HAUNTS KENDALL RESIDENTS ALMOST A YEAR LATER

 

[ozazure]

I think this is where the websleuths rules about sleuthing are worth their weight in gold. Do you think anything we can drag up about neighbours will be in anyway illuminating in a way that an actual police presence and investigation were not? Local people provide snippets about the search and community and this is the kind of information that pads out news reports, which is helpful as you can't just keep repeating that the boy is missing.

 

[JLZ]

I mean it's odd to me that if he's an adult living with his mother, why would his dad and mother in law feel the need to move near him, unless living with his mother is long term, which is odd in itself if he's an adult. Granted, there's the odd son everyone wants to be near, but I don't know too many just thinking about it.

And yes it could be a crime committed by a child (& concealed by an adult) imo

It's just occurred to me that notwithstanding that the woman and her partner each have children, it's also possible that the partner is a woman and is the mother, not the father, of the child they've moved to be near. (My personal experience as an adult is that I've had constant pressure to move to live near my mother, though not my father.)

However, when I questioned your attribution of oddness, I wasn't thinking of the child as an adult, but possibly a teenager, so not "young".

 

[sosocurious]

Oh the confusion.
Recent article 16 Sept 2017.

His grandmother would later recall there had been two cars parked in the street. A white station wagon and an older grey sedan were positioned on the opposite side of the road between driveways. Both driver’s side windows were wound down........................


Local whitegoods repairman Bill Spedding, 64, became the first man marked as a person of interest in the case and quickly became the subject of media attention after it was revealed he was facing charges in Victoria for historical child sex offences.

He was at William’s grandmother’s house the day before the disappearance to fix a faulty washing machine. Interviewed extensively by police, his house was searched forensically and detectives meticulously scoured bushland near his house.
A year after the search began, Mr Spedding uploaded a video to social media denying any involvement.
Investigators said this week Mr Spedding remained part of the inquiry but that he “had moved way down the priority list’’.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...e/news-story/b58b323ebd58fd0e85aa4ec9208187af
Hope remains for William Tyrrell three years after his disappearance

 

[Bohemian]

Why do you think it's odd? I mean, it might be a sign that the child is problematic and needs extra supervision, if that's where you're going, but in that case I doubt she'd be mentioning the child to the reporter. Otherwise, it's not strange that a father wants to live near his son? Or do you think it suggests something odd about the father, that he's keeping on watch on his former partner?

Without sleuthing any particular children, does anyone think this could be the crime of a child, concealed by adults?

Do you mean a crime similar to that perpetrated against Jamie Bulger? I don't immediately think so as those types of child murders are rare. Also, I believe the day William disappeared was the last day of primary school before the three-week September-October 2014 holidays*. Although a school-aged child/children may have been absent from school (with or without permission) that day.

[* I'm not at all sure of the final day of term for high school aged children but, from memory, I think the date was the same.]

Maybe not the crime of a 'child' per se but possibly the crime of a older teenager/adult 'child'?

And do I think it's possible, in that case, that the crime was concealed by older adult(s)/family member(s)? The younger/more immature the teenager/young adult 'child' was, the more likely that would seem possible (to me FWIW).

It could explain why William wasn't found within the initial and extended search radii, ie; a teenage/young adult 'child' may have abducted, possibly violently and/or sexually assaulted and/or (accidentally?) killed William, and an adult then discovered and concealed the crime and disposed of William's remains.

DCI Jubelin stressed throughout his latest presser that the investigation into William's disappearance is 'unique' and that he is 'keeping an open mind'. He said it's a 'once in a generation', 'once in a career' type of crime, so our hypotheses are as good as any at this stage, JLZ.

This seemed to be an interesting article (ignoring the sections about familial perpetrators as the foster and biological parents have been cleared), particularly the references to the scholarly journal articles:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...rs-children-psychology-profiles-child-killers

 

[iailwa]

Do you mean a crime similar to that perpetrated against Jamie Bulger? I don't immediately think so as those types of child murders are rare.

Also, I believe the day William disappeared was the last day of primary school before the three-week September-October 2014 holidays. Although a child/children may have been absent from school (with or without permission) that day. I'm not at all sure of the final day of term for high school aged children but, from memory, I think the date was the same.

So, maybe not the crime of a 'child' per se but possibly the crime of a older teenager/adult 'child'?

And do I think it's possible, in that case, that the crime was concealed by older adult(s)/family member(s)? The younger/more immature the teenager/young adult 'child' was, the more likely that would seem possible (to me FWIW).

It could explain why William wasn't found within the initial and extended search radii, ie; a teenage/young adult 'child' may have abducted, possibly violently and/or sexually assaulted and/or killed William, and an adult then discovered and concealed the crime and disposed of William's remains.

DCI Jubelin stressed throughout his latest presser that the investigation into William's disappearance is 'unique' and that he is 'keeping an open mind'. He said it's a 'once in a generation', 'once in a career' type of crime, so our hypotheses are as good as any at this stage, JLZ.

This seemed to be an interesting article (ignoring the sections about familial perpetrators as the foster and biological parents have been cleared), particularly the references to the scholarly journal articles:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...rs-children-psychology-profiles-child-killers

The only problem I have with this idea is that Williams scent wasn't found outside his grand mother's driveway or house boundary. Would it be true that if he was led away by a child/teen that lives nearby there would be a scent? It doesn't seem likely a car would be used in such a scenario. Or possibly so, if the kid/adult drives & was returning/leaving home & lured him into his car...

 

[Karinna]

The only problem I have with this idea is that Williams scent wasn't found outside his grand mother's driveway or house boundary. Would it be true that if he was led away by a child/teen that lives nearby there would be a scent? It doesn't seem likely a car would be used in such a scenario. Or possibly so, if the kid/adult drives & was returning/leaving home & lured him into his car...

BBM, And that is very strange because WT had been out in the yard playing that morning and on his FGM's patio where the photo was taken, and sniffer dogs should definitely have picked up his scent.

 

[iailwa]

It's just occurred to me that notwithstanding that the woman and her partner each have children, it's also possible that the partner is a woman and is the mother, not the father, of the child they've moved to be near. (My personal experience as an adult is that I've had constant pressure to move to live near my mother, though not my father.)

However, when I questioned your attribution of oddness, I wasn't thinking of the child as an adult, but possibly a teenager, so not "young".

I'm confused. Wasn't it said that he lived with his mother (& his mother in law & father moved to live near him but lived around the corner)...

Yes was talking about an adult. It's quite possible he is a young adult. It's even possible he's a kid, & then in that case I can understand the father wanting to be near for sure. Some early press stuff is good for letting these little bits of info out - been looking a lil but haven't found anything yet pertaining to them

 

[Karinna]

'We can't find a scent': Police baffled that sniffer dogs can't find a trace of missing boy William Tyrell
Police have launched a special strike force to help find three-year-old missing boy William Tyrell on the fifth day of the frantic search as it's revealed even police sniffer dogs can't find a trace or scent of the toddler.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...missing-grandparents-house-FIVE-days-ago.html

 

[iailwa]

BBM, And that is very strange because WT had been out in the yard playing that morning and on his FGM's patio where the photo was taken, and sniffer dogs should definitely have picked up his scent.

Yep, agreed. But they did detect scent in the yard didn't they? I think he was excited that daddy was coming home so he could well have wondered down the driveway just to look *Scent disappears as he is placed into strangers vehicle* (imo a possibility) I don't think I ever read anything that said there was no scent whatsoever - if that is what you mean? I thought it was no scent detected from the outer perimeters including the end of the driveway. Then again I could be wrong !!

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
William Tyrell search: police say sniffer dogs have found no trace of boy

Authorities say investigators are ‘keeping an open mind’ about whether William was taken
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...olice-say-chances-of-survival-are-diminishing
And this was very early on in the case before GJ took it over, but Fehon was the first investigator on the case.

 

[JLZ]

The only problem I have with this idea is that Williams scent wasn't found outside his grand mother's driveway or house boundary. Would it be true that if he was led away by a child/teen that lives nearby there would be a scent? It doesn't seem likely a car would be used in such a scenario. Or possibly so, if the kid/adult drives & was returning/leaving home & lured him into his car...

That's a point, though as somebody's signature line says, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." There would be a number of factors affecting whether dogs were able to pick up a trail; I don't think you can conclude from the failure to find their scent that the person didn't walk that way.

 

[Karinna]

Yep, agreed. But they did detect scent in the yard didn't they? I think he was excited that daddy was coming home so he could well have wondered down the driveway just to look *Scent disappears as he is placed into strangers vehicle* (imo a possibility) I don't think I ever read anything that said there was no scent whatsoever - if that is what you mean? I thought it was no scent detected from the outer perimeters including the end of the driveway. Then again I could be wrong !!

Well i guess it depends what MSM article you want to believe? There was something about detection of WT to the driveway or something at one stage?
I guess "confusion is good" as a father of a missing child once said.

 

[JLZ]

I'm confused. Wasn't it said that he lived with his mother (& his mother in law & father moved to live near him but lived around the corner)...

Yes was talking about an adult. It's quite possible he is a young adult. It's even possible he's a kid, & then in that case I can understand the father wanting to be near for sure. Some early press stuff is good for letting these little bits of info out - been looking a lil but haven't found anything yet pertaining to them

You're right, the son was said to be living with his mother. Sorry.

 

[iailwa]

'We can't find a scent': Police baffled that sniffer dogs can't find a trace of missing boy William Tyrell
Police have launched a special strike force to help find three-year-old missing boy William Tyrell on the fifth day of the frantic search as it's revealed even police sniffer dogs can't find a trace or scent of the toddler.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...missing-grandparents-house-FIVE-days-ago.html

Good point Karrina but I'm sure I read they could find a scent in the vicinity of the yard & driveway, but not leading into the bush. I will try to find the articles I read about it...

 

[iailwa]

You're right, the son was said to be living with his mother. Sorry.

No worries it's all confusing!

 

[iailwa]

That's a point, though as somebody's signature line says, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." There would be a number of factors affecting whether dogs were able to pick up a trail; I don't think you can conclude from the failure to find their scent that the person didn't walk that way.

True, but the likelihood certainly narrows it down. These dogs are freaking good! But yes, it's possible the scent is lost in some way... at some point. But undetected altogether is odd... I think I heard about a case overseas similar where the child was taken on foot and the scent was lost...

 

[JLZ]

I'm not thinking of a specific scenario. Maybe that William began playing with another child or someone he thought was an older child, something happened and the person who was supposed to be supervising the older child was afraid of the consequences for him/herself and secondarily for the child. Perhaps a bike being involved (as a lure and method of fast short-distance removal from the scene). Perhaps a child-child sexual assault and a parent thought killing the victim a good remedy.

 

[Bohemian]

The only problem I have with this idea is that Williams scent wasn't found outside his grand mother's driveway or house boundary. Would it be true that if he was led away by a child/teen that lives nearby there would be a scent? It doesn't seem likely a car would be used in such a scenario. Or possibly so, if the kid/adult drives & was returning/leaving home & lured him into his car...

I took the SAR dogs' failure to detect William's scent outside of the boundaries of 48 Benaroon Drive into consideration:

'Police dogs were brought in and they managed to find William’s scent, but only within the boundaries of the backyard.'

Australian Womens' Weekly
The boy no one can find

Michael Sheather travelled to the town of Kendall where William went missing, to investigate why this case was like no other. He filed this report.

SEP 06, 2015 9:00PM
BY MICHAEL SHEATHER​

In this instance, I postulate an abduction by an older teenager/young adult 'child' in the sense that they had the physical strength to silence, restrain, lift and transport a small child (possibly whilst on foot) from the yard of 48 Benaroon Drive, not being 'led away' by children as Jamie Bulger was prior to his murder.

In the ensuing chaos of the immediate search, is there a possibility an older adult/family member may have realised their teenager/young adult 'child' was also missing, they then found that 'child' to have perpetrated a (serious) crime(s) and concealed those crimes and William? I think it's possible.

is it also possible that William was lured or pulled into a car parked across #48's driveway, or next to the verge, by the driver and transported elsewhere and someone knows or had suspicions about that person's absence or behaviour after the fact and is concealing that information? I think it's possible too.