Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #27

[deugirtni]

Thanks for sharing that info CP. That is heartbreaking to read that LE gave up the search at 5:30pm. Thankfully the rest, and thankfully to you for allowing the access, were willing to forge ahead. Interesting to note that the place where the child was found had been already searched, even with dogs. And found only half conscious in such chilly weather.. what would have been the outcome if the child had been left for another 12+ hours without being found? ie if the search was called off at 5:30pm, and the toddler was ultimately discovered at 1:15am, almost 7.5 hours later, then what would the prognosis have been for the boy, going without food and water, being semi conscious, and in the cold temps if the searchers had given up along with police, and had not started up again until say 7am, and then it took the same 7.5 hours longer to find him.. that would have taken the time of discovery to 2.30pm.

 

[CaptainPeacock]

Yes - the police dogs found nothing. I spent some time with the handler of the dog that helped find him later and she was all over the place. It isn't easy or straightforward to 'read' the dog's behaviour. They need to balance controlling the dog with letting it follow its nose. Had the search been abandoned, Tyler would've certainly died of hypothermia or drowned in the swamp. I got involved in WT's case when I heard there was a search. I encouraged people never to give up searching, because of Tyler's case.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes - the police dogs found nothing. I spent some time with the handler of the dog that helped find him later and she was all over the place. It isn't easy or straightforward to 'read' the dog's behaviour. They need to balance controlling the dog with letting it follow its nose. Had the search been abandoned, Tyler would've certainly died of hypothermia or drowned in the swamp. I got involved in WT's case when I heard there was a search. I encouraged people never to give up searching, because of Tyler's case.

CP, would the toddler have died of hypothermia/dehydration if he had not been found until 2;30pm instead of 1;15am?

 

[CaptainPeacock]

Either that or he'd have moved position and drowned. There was a lot of water all around him in a swampy area and he was right across the road (about thirty feet) from the riverbank. It was cold and he was wearing no shoes and just shorts and a t-shirt. He'd had no food or water either.

 

[iailwa]

Thanks for your input CP & for searching for little Tyler and demanding to stay! thank god you all remained to search. it would have been a sad story indeed Must have been an horrific experience until he was found.

As for WT, have you ever tried to drive through the end of his street into the forest? I have an AWD and found it quite tricky & slow going. So, he may have been followed from Sydney? So this would mean someone knew they'd had a change of plan....

good to see you here!

 

[frogwell]

http://www.manningrivertimes.com.au/story/1518624/a-faint-cry-and-he-was-found/

Just a follow up article on the people who found TK.

 

[JLZ]

From your link, Frogwell (http://www.manningrivertimes.com.au/story/1518624/a-faint-cry-and-he-was-found/):

"I heard just the faintest sound, the others told me it was nothing but I said 'shut up, I definitely heard something' and I started flagging down cars to help. I just had this feeling, I knew he was in there."
. . .
People rushed down from the roadside to assist in getting Tyler out, forming a human chain through the swamp to carry him up to the roadside.

So it seems that although TK went missing on a 40-acre property, he was found near a road. I'm not quite satisfied that abduction has been ruled out.

 

[CaptainPeacock]

Hi iailwa,
Anyone would have done the same. I remember feeling guilty because I'd not been able to get to the search for Tyler until quite late in the day and it never even occurred to me that it would stop at dark. It was just a poor decision by the organisers. It shows the power of social media to rally the locals into organised action - a fantastic job all round. When I was searching on my own, I remember at one point the thought occurred to me that some random weirdo might have him out in the bush and that I might stumble across his path of escape. It wasn't a joyous feeling in the dark on my own out there, but honestly I just kept thinking about what it would be like if Tyler was my child. There was no way anyone would give up in those circumstances.

I have had a look down that trail off Benaroon Drive, but I have a low clearance sedan these days so I didn't get far.

Having spent a lot of time looking around those streets, I immediately saw (as the police reportedly did) that this was not a random thing. No one just hangs around that street for nothing. I can see it is possible that visitors from out of town could blend in - strangers just visiting their relatives - without anyone taking too much notice. I don't think it would feel risky to a perp to go there without being known to someone in the street. After all, I had been there before 2014 snooping around looking at blocks of land and no one made me feel as though they didn't want me there. People kinda keep to themselves. So if I were a perp, it wouldn't feel much of a risk to park along the street, because if you were seen people wouldn't approach and ask what you were doing. If anyone nosey did, you'd just say you were looking for a particular house or person whom they hadn't heard of.

 

[CaptainPeacock]

Hi JLZ,
The property he was lost on belonged to my relatives. The road they are talking about is Wharf Road, which is a dirt service road that gives access to the few residents that live on large acreages there. It terminates in the state forest I think. Abduction was certainly not the issue here. He wandered only a few hundred metres from the workshop shed, across in front of the house and into the pine forest. Just on the other side of that forest, there's a swampy area and then the road. At the time he went missing, there were no cars or people around. The nearest neighbours are well out of reach too. It happened in broad daylight, with his mum and dad and my relative who was doing a rego check on their car. They were literally just metres away from him and his sister, so there was no opportunity for a person to get to him unobserved. He just went for a wander. In the map below, you'll see the red and blue paths - two alternatives that take into account which farm gates he would've had to pass through to get to the location where he was eventually found. The mechanical workshop shed is the building on the right, farmhouse is in the middle and sheds and outbuildings to the back of the house yard. The large shed on the left is a heavy machinery storage shed belonging to a neighbour. The property on the far left bottom corner is another neighbour. And there's a third neighbour across the road.

 

[JLZ]

Hi JLZ,
The property he was lost on belonged to my relatives. The road they are talking about is Wharf Road, which is a dirt service road that gives access to the few residents that live on large acreages there. It terminates in the state forest I think. Abduction was certainly not the issue here. He wandered only a few hundred metres from the workshop shed, across in front of the house and into the pine forest. Just on the other side of that forest, there's a swampy area and then the road. At the time he went missing, there were no cars or people around. The nearest neighbours are well out of reach too. It happened in broad daylight, with his mum and dad and my relative who was doing a rego check on their car. They were literally just metres away from him and his sister, so there was no opportunity for a person to get to him unobserved. He just went for a wander.

Thanks heaps for the map, Captain Peacock.

 

[CaptainPeacock]

When you're at the farm, it feels as though there's no one for miles around. But come to think of it, I suppose given the proximity of one of those neighbouring houses in particular, you couldn't categorically rule out foul play. It never really occurred to me until I looked at the map just now.

 

[JLZ]

When you're at the farm, it feels as though there's no one for miles around. But come to think of it, I suppose given the proximity of one of those neighbouring houses in particular, you couldn't categorically rule out foul play. It never really occurred to me until I looked at the map just now.

I was a wanderer myself as a toddler and for a few years after. I remember one of the later occasions. I just had an overpowering curiosity and despite having been lost many times before, I rationalized to myself that I wasn't lost because I remembered the last turning at least, and I just wanted to see just that little bit further on, until . . . I was lost, with no idea which way I'd come, and some stranger would have to find the parents of a crying little girl. So I do get that that happens.

 

[CaptainPeacock]

When TK was found they medically examined him and he was okay. I guess that doesn't mean someone couldn't have spirited him away for some hours before he was found. I guess it would explain how the dogs and searchers missed him. A perp could've snatched him from the front road near the shed. But it's hard to explain why he was returned unharmed. But certainly I see that it's possible now - never thought of that before.

 

[frogwell]

Are you able to outline discreetly your theory about Sydney and local connections being responsible for the disappearance? Also, I guess many people who are local to the area have diverse thoughts as to what has happened to WT, are you able to describe the general feeling or vibe in relation to how the locals feel about this case?

 

[iailwa]

Hi JLZ,
The property he was lost on belonged to my relatives. The road they are talking about is Wharf Road, which is a dirt service road that gives access to the few residents that live on large acreages there. It terminates in the state forest I think. Abduction was certainly not the issue here. He wandered only a few hundred metres from the workshop shed, across in front of the house and into the pine forest. Just on the other side of that forest, there's a swampy area and then the road. At the time he went missing, there were no cars or people around. The nearest neighbours are well out of reach too. It happened in broad daylight, with his mum and dad and my relative who was doing a rego check on their car. They were literally just metres away from him and his sister, so there was no opportunity for a person to get to him unobserved. He just went for a wander. In the map below, you'll see the red and blue paths - two alternatives that take into account which farm gates he would've had to pass through to get to the location where he was eventually found. The mechanical workshop shed is the building on the right, farmhouse is in the middle and sheds and outbuildings to the back of the house yard. The large shed on the left is a heavy machinery storage shed belonging to a neighbour. The property on the far left bottom corner is another neighbour. And there's a third neighbour across the road.

So would you say,as the crow flies, he wandered about 300 metres then?

thanks for the image

 

[CaptainPeacock]

Yes about 300m - but JLZ has now got me wondering if he wandered on his own. In theory, someone could've taken him from the road near the shed and planted him back in the swamp hours later. But he was unharmed and not interfered with, according to medical examinations.

 

[CaptainPeacock]

Hi Frogwell,
Locals generally think it was an out of towner who took WT. Or at least not someone living in Kendall. Most of the people I know think that this person may have strong connections to the area though, as GJ has said. When GJ was brought into the case, I immediately saw a strong reason why they selected him to lead it. Think about what he's famous for - particularly on the mid-north coast. He's the hero of the small screen. The 'types' of folks he's successfully brought to justice have strong connections to people around WT.

 

[kiwi50]

Hi Frogwell,
Locals generally think it was an out of towner who took WT. Or at least not someone living in Kendall. Most of the people I know think that this person may have strong connections to the area though, as GJ has said. When GJ was brought into the case, I immediately saw a strong reason why they selected him to lead it. Think about what he's famous for - particularly on the mid-north coast. He's the hero of the small screen. The 'types' of folks he's successfully brought to justice have strong connections to people around WT.

Wonderful to have a local here, you've given us food for thought.

 

[CaptainPeacock]

Aren't there any other locals on this thread? Perhaps they're just snooping, as I did for the past few years.

 

[JLZ]

Yes about 300m - but JLZ has now got me wondering if he wandered on his own. In theory, someone could've taken him from the road near the shed and planted him back in the swamp hours later. But he was unharmed and not interfered with, according to medical examinations.

<modsnip> However he may have been photographed, for example. It strikes me as somewhat tough-minded to say that he wasn't harmed, if indeed he was dumped in shallow water in those conditions, potentially to die of hypothermia or drown.