Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #30

[frogwell]

I don't believe I ever read that before, about Spedding being on civil terms with one of the victims?

Perhaps it can be considered plausible deniability, in Margaret's situation. Perhaps not enough for charges to be laid against her, for intimidation of a victim/witness.

I still think that the points will be raised in the trial, however. They have made it into MSM, so they are considered serious enough to be considered. And the police evidently wanted people to know that. (And wanted Margaret to know that everyone now knew about it. More pressure.)



"In NSW, Threatening or Intimidating Victims or Witnesses carries a maximum penalty of 7 years imprisonment. Intimidation and threats to witnesses are seen most often in offences involving violence, particularly in domestic violence offences."
https://www.armstronglegal.com.au/criminal-law/offences/false-statements/threatening-witnesses

I will have to find the article, but it talks about the younger of the victims having a child of her own and him visiting and her becoming uncomfortable. I have always been under the impression that BS and MS have had an ongoing relationship with her. That is why he asked her for a statement during inqiries about him in the WT investigation. MS obviously sent her text after the historical allegations and who knows what her intent was. I agree, the police have put the most horrific account to the media for maximum pressure, even sharing unsubstantiated allegations and referring to them as evidence to be considered when at the time that is all they were. That is why there has been suspicion on my part as to the police motivation in this matter. MOO

 

[Morrisa]

I will have to find the article, but it talks about the younger of the victims having a child of her own and him visiting and her becoming uncomfortable. I have always been under the impression that BS and MS have had an ongoing relationship with her. That is why he asked her for a statement during inqiries about him in the WT investigation. MS obviously sent her text after the historical allegations and who knows what her intent was. I agree, the police have put the most horrific account to the media for maximum pressure, even sharing unsubstantiated allegations and referring to them as evidence to be considered when at the time that is all they were. That is why there has been suspicion on my part as to the police motivation in this matter. MOO

Yep, I remember this article, cannot find it anywhere now....

 

[Wexford]

I will have to find the article, but it talks about the younger of the victims having a child of her own and him visiting and her becoming uncomfortable. I have always been under the impression that BS and MS have had an ongoing relationship with her. That is why he asked her for a statement during inqiries about him in the WT investigation. MS obviously sent her text after the historical allegations and who knows what her intent was. I agree, the police have put the most horrific account to the media for maximum pressure, even sharing unsubstantiated allegations and referring to them as evidence to be considered when at the time that is all they were. That is why there has been suspicion on my part as to the police motivation in this matter. MOO

BBM
Yes the text allegedly said: “It really saddens me you’re involved in this.”
Which of course could be read a number of ways and probably would be hard to prove that the intention was to intimidate a witness.
Trigger warning. https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...s/news-story/6af1e4e9dfe5cc917e88dfe3d6f66702

 

[bearbear]

2015 daily mail...
While Spedding's defence has offered to put up bail of $100,000 and for him to live with his wife and not do house calls where there might be children, Ms Sharma argued Spedding was 'facing full time custody in the latter half of his life' and the risk he would break bail conditions was to great

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ated-child-rapist-murderer.html#ixzz57t4lZoEX

​

 

[Wexford]

Yep, I remember this article, cannot find it anywhere now....

Here: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...ild-rape-charges/story-fnitcyla-1227406402659

 

[bearbear]

what 'innocent acts' could cause such horrific injuries?

Mr O'Brien said that the adults who coached the little girls 'gave innocent acts sinister overtones'.
He said that while the girls had specifically nominated Bill Spedding as their abuser it was the result of discussions with their mother 'in a hothouse of suspicion'.
'While at hospital she nominated [Bill Spedding] as the offender,' Mr O'Brien quoted the judgement.
One of the girls said 'it is Bill'.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...am-Tyrrell-related-child-rapist-murderer.html

 

[bearbear]

so hes already been charged with the victorian offences... why does ms stay with him, it cant all be children 'coached' by adults?

Court documents show Victorian police have charged Spedding with multiple child sexual abuse offences, including various counts of indecent assault and sexual intercourse with children between 1983 and 1985.

Spedding is already facing a string of separate child sexual offences and is due to appear in a NSW court next year.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/a...ictorian-court-next-year-20161020-gs6kns.html

 

[they'll get you]

BBM
Yes the text allegedly said: “It really saddens me you’re involved in this.”
Which of course could be read a number of ways and probably would be hard to prove that the intention was to intimidate a witness.
Trigger warning. https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...s/news-story/6af1e4e9dfe5cc917e88dfe3d6f66702

Thank you Wexford good news about Medical records.
Bloody hell!

ACCUSED child rapist Bill Spedding repeatedly raped a three-year-old girl in a caravan in Campbelltown and farmed children out to fellow paedophiles, police allege.

The shocking accusations surfaced after police investigating the disappearance of toddler William Tyrrell unearthed historical police and medical records that led to the charges being laid.

According to the police facts tendered in Port Macquarie Local Court yesterday, the 63-year-old repairman and dole recipient is also accused of raping a six-year-old girl and sharing a bed with his two victims.

(Dole recipient was thrown in for good measure)


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[they'll get you]

Here: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...ild-rape-charges/story-fnitcyla-1227406402659

IMO just the first nail in the coffin.

Police have stressed that the historic child sex charges against Mr Spedding are not related to William’s disappearance.






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[they'll get you]

what 'innocent acts' could cause such horrific injuries?

Mr O'Brien said that the adults who coached the little girls 'gave innocent acts sinister overtones'.
He said that while the girls had specifically nominated Bill Spedding as their abuser it was the result of discussions with their mother 'in a hothouse of suspicion'.
'While at hospital she nominated [Bill Spedding] as the offender,' Mr O'Brien quoted the judgement.
One of the girls said 'it is Bill'.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...am-Tyrrell-related-child-rapist-murderer.html

I hope those medical reports have precise records.



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[JLZ]

so hes already been charged with the victorian offences... why does ms stay with him, it cant all be children 'coached' by adults?

Court documents show Victorian police have charged Spedding with multiple child sexual abuse offences, including various counts of indecent assault and sexual intercourse with children between 1983 and 1985.

Spedding is already facing a string of separate child sexual offences and is due to appear in a NSW court next year.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/a...ictorian-court-next-year-20161020-gs6kns.html

I was never clear about whether the Victorian case involves children other than the original two. But the younger would not have been born in 1983 and the elder surely too young to remember. There must be other witnesses at least.

 

[frogwell]

so hes already been charged with the victorian offences... why does ms stay with him, it cant all be children 'coached' by adults?

Court documents show Victorian police have charged Spedding with multiple child sexual abuse offences, including various counts of indecent assault and sexual intercourse with children between 1983 and 1985.

Spedding is already facing a string of separate child sexual offences and is due to appear in a NSW court next year.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/a...ictorian-court-next-year-20161020-gs6kns.html

The allegations were brought forward by the older victim in the NSW case. Who knows what other children?, but they better have more than her account. What is Taskforce Sano's track record in getting convictions so far. Rodney Spedding describes the Victorian allegations as "fresh", ( I take it, the family had never heard these ones before 2015) and he didn't believe them.

 

[SouthAussie]

I will have to find the article, but it talks about the younger of the victims having a child of her own and him visiting and her becoming uncomfortable. I have always been under the impression that BS and MS have had an ongoing relationship with her. That is why he asked her for a statement during inqiries about him in the WT investigation. MS obviously sent her text after the historical allegations and who knows what her intent was. I agree, the police have put the most horrific account to the media for maximum pressure, even sharing unsubstantiated allegations and referring to them as evidence to be considered when at the time that is all they were. That is why there has been suspicion on my part as to the police motivation in this matter. MOO

Yes, I know that you are suspicious of these charges.

I prefer to believe the victims, especially when it has been stated (in the article that I posted yesterday) that 97.5% of sexual assault victims have been believed by the police ... and the victims have been asked over and over again, by others, about lying.

I am personally very tired of the attitude of society (nothing against your personal thoughts ) that sexual assault victims are unilaterally lying. Very, very few of them lie, apparently. And I have no reason to believe these girls are lying, particularly with sexual assault unit records about the injuries - which I believe will include the fresh, black vaginal and upper leg bruising of the young one - at a time when Hillsley was in prison.

 

[bearbear]

The allegations were brought forward by the older victim in the NSW case. Who knows what other children?, but they better have more than her account. What is Taskforce Sano's track record in getting convictions so far. Rodney Spedding describes the Victorian allegations as "fresh", ( I take it, the family had never heard these ones before 2015) and he didn't believe them.

sounds like he was a very active paedophile and yet he still had children in his care!
how can ms stay with him and be all perky permed and smug to the media like shes a minor celebrity, shes married to a monster!!!
hopefully taskforce sano are up to it, wonder if rodney and co still support him now they know of these victorian allegations and how did bs keep it all from family finding out?

 

[SouthAussie]

As far as the 'coaching' goes .. the (at the time) 3 year old has already stated she has limited memory of the events. So, if her mum or grandma said "At the time, you said this, you said that" (what mum/grandma could forget that?), so what? They are recalling events.

I prefer to err on the side of the victims, until/unless otherwise is proved.

 

[SouthAussie]

I was never clear about whether the Victorian case involves children other than the original two. But the younger would not have been born in 1983 and the elder surely too young to remember. There must be other witnesses at least.

I can't recall, and don't have time to search for the links at the moment to see if this is in the Victorian case, but with victims being passed around and forced to perform sexual acts on each other, I think there is a lot more to it than we know or have heard.

 

[frogwell]

I have never said the victims were lying and obviously a crime was committed. It has been reported in different MSM that they both had injuries and then only one of them in the NSW case. Of course police would follow up on someone who has visited the house at Benaroon Dr. who had allegations of sexually abusing very young children and have that person in their sites. It's nearly 3 years since BS was splashed all over the place and has lived with other children and lived in different towns since 86. Are there other charges since that time that have been laid? The initial allegations, which his family knew of, just happen to coincide with a notorious pedo who it has been documented had intent towards these victims and again according to documentation in the midst of a messy divorce. The Victorian allegations seem to have been made when inquiries into WT were made. To my mind, there is enough information to give this guy a full hearing with an open mind, with what we know. MOO

 

[sosocurious]

always wondered that and its always seemed the simplest most likely scenario, their place was searched top to bottom numerous times and foster father kept wandering their yard asking if theyd seen him, they have also since moved, i remember they had a white 4wd vehicle in their carport when i did street view ages ago, mr wilson was the neighbour who remembered the exact time his wife left to go shopping

Bohemian - post 843 thread 24 -
They weren't at work. Mrs Wilson went shopping so she said she 'wasnt home' and [her] husband wasn't home'. Whether Mr Wilson was with Mrs Wilson when she 'headed into town to run some errands', IDK. I also I don't know if their house was searched 'more' than others. At the moment, anyway.
'Judy Wilson, whose fence sits just 10m from where William was taken, heard him and his sister playing earlier that morning before she headed into town to run some errands.
When she returned, the street was in chaos.
“I wasn’t home and my husband wasn’t home. The only thing I was able to tell police was that I heard the children playing but didn’t see them … I just heard kids laughing and you could tell they were little children,” Mrs Wilson said.
“I don’t think it was an opportunistic grab from someone who just happened to be here *because we don’t get strangers wandering around.”'

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...193b5f6731f74c


A Benaroon Drive resident said his wife drove out of the street, which William's grandmother no longer lives in, one minute before William disappeared.
It was 26 or 28 minutes to 11am, he remembered with minute detail.
"She never saw a car or noticed anything strange," he said.
The man spent the next day with a pool net in hand searching through a dam and waterholes, anxious about what he might find.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...-false-hope-12-months-on-20150903-gjenjz.html

That has always confused me. Was it Mr Wilson that remembered that exact time or someone else?
Because there are other residents in the street that we have not heard anything about or from.
Unless Mr Wilson is suggesting he looked at the time as he and his wife were driving out of the street.

 

[bearbear]

i remember very early on reading it was mr wilson who said that about the specific time, ill try to find it, nearly 100 per cent sure it was him because it really stuck out in my mind at the time, with thoughts of someone attracted to those sounds of children and how easy to lure a child or grab from the safety of those bordering bushes

 

[sosocurious]

(snipped)

I think I read that Spedding had in recent years been on civil terms with one of the victims, visited her and her child. Perhaps he and Margaret had the numbers as a normal family circumstance, even if they didn't use them very often. I think Spedding believed that the bad old stuff was forgotten or the victims had allowed themselves to be persuaded that it didn't happen/it wasn't him/it wasn't anything serious. So he tried to get it in writing while the going was good. But Margaret's contact evidently happened after the allegations had been raised again. If they were on speaking terms I think it would be hard to prove that she was trying to influence a witness; it has 'plausible deniability' as they say.
Previously I thought she may have just been offering sympathy but I've changed my mind and I do see the passive aggression.

According to court documents, Mr Spedding asked an alleged victim to sign a declaration about his “good character” after learning police were investigating him over William’s disappearance.
He contacted one of his alleged victims, who is now an adult, “directly lobbying” her to declare he did not sexually abuse her when she was a child, according to police facts tendered in court.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...g/news-story/2a8a51819720492213582b8d70dc61da

The court heard that Mr Spedding spent the night at the home of one of the complainants about six months ago and played with her young daughter.
“It just didn’t feel right...it felt really awkward,” the complainant said in police interviews.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...ild-rape-charges/story-fnitcyla-1227406402659
Bill Spedding, person of interest in William Tyrrell disappearance, granted bail over child rape charges
TAYLOR AUERBACH,
June 19, 2015

Six months being mid to late December 2014. Which of course is when

the homicide squad turned their attention on Mr Spedding in mid-December without knowing about the December 9 FACS inquiry.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...e/news-story/73350ebd1be700109fa5a5eb5bb06d0c
Family Services quizzed ‘person of interest’: Children were removed from tradesman Bill Spedding’s care