Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #30

[JLZ]

Hi all. just interested in your opinions about the stump found in the Middle Brother State Forest...last year. It might not interest anybody, but i'm so curious. It says "JESUS SAVES WILLIAM". I saw it myself. Geographically speaking it's within a curious radius - & then, also, it was some time later (like a delayed trophy signature). The police indicated it was a part of a geo-chacing-game - but the response by police was so immense, & the response from the geo-caching team was that it wasn't there - the week before. In other words - it was newish when found. MOO is the police think it's a clue of sorts... Opinions?

I think it's someone making a "witty" comment on the nature of the cache (which could be taken as survival tools) given its proximity to the disappearance site.

 

[frogwell]

From 9 Windoo place, where BS was living, if you take a few streets from that home, there are entrances to fire trails, to the area the police were searching in the bush.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/plac...ab6ebd7bc19a0!8m2!3d-31.5735391!4d152.8205591

 

[they'll get you]

A lot of chatter from several members of the BS camp on one FB site re the court case end of Feb and how it will prove his innocence. Nothing of substance, just chatter, but they all seem convinced.

IMO the prosecution better have good evidence, victims and witnesses.
Better cross your fingers because it’s a historic crime and there was his dangerous BIL around at the time, the prosecution better be able to pinpoint BS 100% beyond any reasonable doubt because he’ll walk free.
I worry the victims were so young that their testimony is not tainted.



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[they'll get you]

Absolutely. I can’t imagine how the FPS can function, they would feel guilty if they try to move on. They deserve closure, not having to live with this forever, always thinking, how, what if.

I agree kiwi I feel for them as well. I can’t imagine the grief they have experienced.
It’s not their fault.

I picture tells 1000 words.
I think we know who this is.

Police talk to an upset man at the house.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...e/news-story/2dc137f5d793ed4c8e52f37c11a3e510


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[they'll get you]

I just keep thinking of Jubelin saying ... the worst is not finding a body, the worst is never finding a body.

He could be anywhere....such a tiny little guy.
Above or below the earth if he’s deceased.



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[Hbayne]

I live in a very similar environment, rural neighbourhood as FG. My first thought would be if it were my child, wandered off, omg who has a pool in the area ect. I think imo foster mum went straight to “ someone has him” I believe they lived with this fear and it happened .

 

[Warshawski]

I have an idea it was Mt Isa. Can't find a link though.

I guess it depends how accurate was the location reporting. Mt Isa is classed as being North Qld.

See Central Qld, which does take in a lot of coastal areas also:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Queensland

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO the prosecution better have good evidence, victims and witnesses.
Better cross your fingers because it’s a historic crime and there was his dangerous BIL around at the time, the prosecution better be able to pinpoint BS 100% beyond any reasonable doubt because he’ll walk free.
I worry the victims were so young that their testimony is not tainted.



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I wonder what the burden of proof is like in these historical cases. I was thinking about that the other night, when I was reading through some of Judge Symes' trials. It must be tough to prove any of the historical crimes. So much time has gone by, the victims were children, so much was concealed, it has taken years for the victims to speak up for themselves. Perhaps the burden of proof is a little different ... more dependent on previous precedent or something.

At least there are records from the past in this case.

As for Hillsley, I believe that the prosecutor stated there are prison records that show that he was incarcerated at the time of these specific crimes against these little girls. Hillsley may have abused them, too, at some point in time. Who knows.
But that does not mean that Spedding should not go down for his own crimes, just because he decided to buddy up to a renown pedo. Who does that, anyway??

 

[kiwi50]

I agree kiwi I feel for them as well. I can’t imagine the grief they have experienced.
It’s not their fault.

I picture tells 1000 words.
I think we know who this is.

Police talk to an upset man at the house.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...e/news-story/2dc137f5d793ed4c8e52f37c11a3e510


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Sad looking back at those pictures, people tried so hard to find him, hard to imagine there was one person probably watching on TV knowing they weren’t going to find him. How can one person cause so much grief to so many and live with it.

 

[Whàngarei]

I live in a very similar environment, rural neighbourhood as FG. My first thought would be if it were my child, wandered off, omg who has a pool in the area ect. I think imo foster mum went straight to “ someone has him” I believe they lived with this fear and it happened .

She knew he wouldnt cross the road he was wary. He always came back to check they were there.it wasn't his pattern of behaviour to go wandering.She jumped to the valid conclusion.

 

[Hbayne]

I wonder what the burden of proof is like in these historical cases. I was thinking about that the other night, when I was reading through some of Judge Symes' trials. It must be tough to prove any of the historical crimes. So much time has gone by, the victims were children, so much was concealed, it has taken years for the victims to speak up for themselves. Perhaps the burden of proof is a little different ... more dependent on previous precedent or something.

At least there are records from the past in this case.

As for Hillsley, I believe that the prosecutor stated there are prison records that show that he was incarcerated at the time of these specific crimes against these little girls. Hillsley may have abused them, too, at some point in time. Who knows.
But that does not mean that Spedding should not go down for his own crimes, just because he decided to buddy up to a renown pedo. Who does that, anyway??

Birds of a feather flock together . IMO spedding has too many connections to convicted and prosecuted pedos/ criminals . I don’t think it’s any ironic coincidence.

 

[Hbayne]

She knew he wouldnt cross the road he was wary. He always came back to check they were there.it wasn't his pattern of behaviour to go wandering.She jumped to the valid conclusion.

Yes I agree. I believe she felt impending doom at the hands of a real life monster

 

[Warshawski]

It's an interesting point about medication. The decision is not made by the carer, it is between the case worker and their information to the doctor. I do know a foster family and all 3 kids have been prescribed ADHD meds, they are all from different families. MOO

Am I imagining things, or did we hear William is an asthmatic ?

His death may have been 'accidental', as was Daniel's. Cowan didn't plan to kill him, he was only focused on satisfying his sick pedo urges !

 

[SouthAussie]

A few points from a massively long document about prosecuting historical child sex crimes ....... as usual, I am starting to look at the legalities :blush:


Child sexual assault generally, and historical child sexual assault in particular, are categories of crime that are, arguably, a poor fit for the traditional rules, practices and the very culture of the adversarial criminal justice system.

That is not to say that justice cannot be achieved within the current system. It can be, and routinely is, achieved.

.... in 2010, 89% of all defendants appearing in the Local Court, 86% of those appearing in the Children’s Court and 84% of those
appearing in the higher criminal courts (the District and Supreme Courts) either pleaded guilty or were found guilty of at least one offence ...

Victims of child sexual abuse who complain after a considerable amount of time are typically fragile and vulnerable.

The passing of time means that police and ultimately prosecutors are faced with an inevitable loss of evidence: memory, scientific and medical evidence, written records and living or competent witnesses.

... delay is a typical, rather than an aberrant feature of child sexual abuse ...

In an effort to isolate events, investigators focus on events. Such events may be the first offence in time or the first occasion when the offending escalated to another form of conduct ..... Events on or about particular occasions like Christmas, birthdays, holidays or other milestones can be triggers enabling recall of a particular act.

Victims can be cross-examined for a long time; three or four days is not uncommon.

.... the rights of the accused do not need to be unfairly sacrificed. These rights are not, and should not be, mutually exclusive from
the rights of victims and the community at large in achieving a fair trial.

http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/CICrimJust/2014/13.pdf

 

[Hbayne]

Why did BS delete his call log, why can no one vouch for his supposed coffee date and school assembly, the man is hiding something

 

[Whàngarei]

He has asthma ...needs ventolin suffers coughing fits in winter

 

[sosocurious]

Why did BS delete his call log, why can no one vouch for his supposed coffee date and school assembly, the man is hiding something

1:20
Reporter- Have you ever seen the little boy?
BS - ......the media has reported that correctly.

Yep I agree he is hiding something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBQhdvruBU4

 

[SouthAussie]

1:20
Reporter- Have you ever seen the little boy?
BS - ......the media has reported that correctly.

Yep I agree he is hiding something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBQhdvruBU4

I wonder if he ever submitted to a polygraph test? I think probably not, but it might have been a good idea if he wanted to give the investigators some/more reason to clear him .. if he is as innocent as he claims he is.

He hasn't mentioned himself that he took a polygraph, has he?


....although evidence obtained from a polygraph machine is for the most part inadmissible, this does not however prevent the police from potentially using polygraph tests in the course of their investigations.
http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/4452/can-evidence-gained-from-a-lie-detector-test-be-ad.aspx

 

[Warshawski]

I live in a very similar environment, rural neighbourhood as FG. My first thought would be if it were my child, wandered off, omg who has a pool in the area ect. I think imo foster mum went straight to “ someone has him” I believe they lived with this fear and it happened .

i seem to recall NC uttering something to the effect of
'they've really done it this time'

 

[Warshawski]

i seem to recall NC uttering something to the effect of
'they've really done it this time'

Sorry, incorrect. This is what I was thinking of. I read in Courier Mail but can't get link as is pay walled.

The Daily Telegraph reports that while Ms Collins has “theories” on what took place, for legal reasons they can’t be revealed.
“Whatever they’ve done, they’ve done very well,” she said.
“It’s just a damn mess. This is the best it gets. It’s just like this every day.”