Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #34

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  • #861
Has the media coverage subsided a bit in Aus now? It’s not easy waiting to see if anything significant will be found each day. It must be so difficult for William’s loved ones I can’t imagine what they are going through.
 
  • #862
About the cars. Did FM remember them being there after she got back from the airport (as far as i know she collected her sis), and it was quite late on the 12th when she reported it? I wonder how good her memory is. Mine is poor, which is sometimes good lol. Does anyone know if she gave a time or not for them being there? tia
Yes, according to FM directly, during her 1st interview a year after WT's disappearance, she said she remembered these cars on their way back to the house from the airport:
Transcribed by me:
"I didn’t remember that until after, um, coming back from the airport, cause we’d collected my sister from the airport, and I remembered it that night on the way back that there were two cars there, and I raced down to the command van, cause they’d set up a command centre in the backyard, and I raced down there and I said I remembered the two cars. And I described the cars to them and you know, and all that sort of thing. So, either, either they’re involved, or either they’ve seen what’s happened, and we just need them to come forward to say, this is what we saw."

And she gave the time for the cars being there as..... upon wakening in the morning of the day WT disappeared, and then knew they were gone when she remembered walking where they had been, when she went to meet the first officer on the scene.

Transcribed by me:
Reporter: With the anniversary upon them, police finally decided to reveal new evidence about the abduction, including 2 cars William’s mom saw parked across the road from her mother’s house just before he was taken.

11:50 FM:
I realized, that night, um that William went missing, that I had actually seen, uh, two cars. When we woke up I always, I always open up the, the sliding door that’s on the verandah looking out back down Benaroon Drive from Mom, Mom’s place. And, as I opened it and I walked out, cause there’s normally a kookaburra that comes up to the fence, up to on to the balcony of the verandah and we love to to say hi to the kookaburra, but I’m looking out over the um the verandah, and I see two cars, and I see these two cars, just sitting there in the road, and my first thought was, oh that’s, that’s odd. I wa, I I looked at these cars thinking, why would two cars be parked on Benaroon Drive? And I looked again and both these cars had their driver’s side windows down, and I just looked again and I thought, oh that’s weird because they were parked in the middle of two driveways, and, yeah, and I had direct view of them, they would’ve had direct view of me, because if you park there you can see us, and I, and I just, I thought, it’s odd, and went back inside and didn’t think another thing of it. Umm and then we just got, you know, the events of the morning take over in terms of breakfast and getting dressed and all of those sorts of things and then um the next time I saw those cars, uh, William and I were playing, um, in the garden and we were playing chasies and things like that and I remember just looking over my, I don’t know, I just remember having this, this feeling, and looking over, uh, my shoulder, and they were still there, and I’ve looked a bit closer and I don’t, I don’t seem to, I couldn’t see anybody inside, but I remember looking at these cars thinking, why are they still there? Annd, the driver’s windows were down and I’m thinking, they’re so close together, and it was really odd because in the whole time that Mom and Dad have lived at Kendall, there has never ever been cars parked on that street. Ever. Umm and I, I, yeah, and I just, it, it just struck me as completely out of character. You know when you look at a picture and you think that picture just doesn’t make sense? It didn’t make sense. You could normally, what happens is people come in and park in driveways. Or they park close to the house. I mean these driveways are huge. To park on a road, then walk down a driveway, probably takes you three or four minutes. So it, it, it just didn’t make sense to me, that you know, I’m in Kendall, why do I think it’s an issue, because Kendall’s not the city, and I kick myself, I kick myself in terms of why didn’t I note down the, the number plates. But the logic part of me says you know what? In Sydney you’d write down the number plate. In Kendall? There’s no reason to write down a number plate. It is one of the most safest towns in New South Wales.


"Reporter: So were they, were they gone, from your, from your memory, were they gone when you realized that William had gone missing? Were they not there any more?

16:55 FM:
I realized that they weren’t there that night when I remembered walking across the road to see Chris Raleigh in his car coming up.

Reporter:
So sometime between when you saw them when you were playing with William

17:11 FM:
I definitely saw them with William, yeah, and I think I was just so focused on finding William, that I just, all I could think was, this is what William looks like, this is what he’s wearing, this is what was happening when I last saw him, and I was frantic. We went through everybody’s house. Um, two neighbours came out to help me look for William when I realized, I raced down the road cause I thought maybe if he’s walked down the road, there’s a house there that’s got a swingset, I thought maybe he’s gone to play on the swings. The, one of the women didn’t go to work, she phoned work and said I’m not coming in and she stayed with me the whole time, running around, trying to find him, William. (crying). And then I reached the point and I thought, he’s not on this estate, I have to phone the police. So we’d been looking for William for a, what I thought for a very short time, but it turns out we’d been looking for him for a really long time and the problem is, when you’re in such, when you’re panicked and you’re shocked, there’s lots of stuff that you don’t remember straight away? And I remembered this detail that night. Those cars were not there, they were not there when we were looking for him. "

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  • #863
About the cars. Did FM remember them being there after she got back from the airport (as far as i know she collected her sis), and it was quite late on the 12th when she reported it? I wonder how good her memory is. Mine is poor, which is sometimes good lol. Does anyone know if she gave a time or not for them being there? tia

She reported it after she returned from the airport with her sister.
 
  • #864
Here's an old article about the 2 cars. There are another 2 cars mentioned too (which I had forgotten about.) A 4WD and a dark sedan:

William Tyrrell: Police seek information on two cars | audio, video

There was also another vehicle described as a dark green/greyish coloured sedan police are interested in.

The vehicle drove past Benaroon Drive as William was riding his bike on the driveway around 9am and performed a u-turn.

The other vehicle in question is a four-wheel-drive that is said to have exited Benaroon Drive around the time William disappeared. A four-wheel-drive was later seen driving at speed in the Kendall area.
 
  • #865
Thanks for posting that, deugirtni. I'd forgotten a lot of what the FM said in the interview.

She's right - it doesn't make for cars to park on the street, in between 2 houses. I think we speculated at the time that the cars might have been looking at a house for sale (I can't remember if there was a house for sale or not.) Even if that's what they were doing, it's weird that there were 2 cars - and no one was visible in the cars. It seemed like they were parked there for quite a while too. If you were checking out a house for sale, you'd drive by slowly and maybe park near the house for a little while. FM makes it sound like they were there for quite a while.
This is just a thought.... and as some of you know, I am not in Australia, I am in Canada.. so perhaps some things are different.... however, I am close to someone who works for our 'Victorian Order of Nurses (VON)', a highly regarded nursing service that has been around for a long time. This person travels from client to client during the course of his work shift, in his own vehicle, to provide nursing assistance to those in need of assistance yet still living in their own homes. He is not allowed to park in the clients' driveways, it is against the rules. No idea why, although around here, it makes sense, because you could potentially be blocking another household occupant from either entering or exiting their own driveway. With huge long driveways, it wouldn't matter obviously, however, the rules are the rules. Just a thought that perhaps something similar could exist over there, and this could easily be an explanation for why the cars were there i)early in the morning; ii)for a certain, perhaps extended length of time; iii)not parked in the driveway; iv)with the windows down (safe neighbourhood/hot/nothing to steal in the car?);
Also, clients sometimes require a two-person visit for various reasons, ie perhaps if there might be heavy lifting of a patient involved. Or sometimes there are team meetings involved, where say a worker, and a supervisor or planner, might both attend a meeting at the client's home to review needs/reassess, whatever. I wonder if GJ has checked out all of these types of services, which I'm sure must also exist over there, to see if anyone on the street may have been receiving services that morning?
Sorry for the lack of paragraph formatting :/
 
  • #866
Here's an old article about the 2 cars. There are another 2 cars mentioned too (which I had forgotten about.) A 4WD and a dark sedan:

William Tyrrell: Police seek information on two cars | audio, video

There was also another vehicle described as a dark green/greyish coloured sedan police are interested in.

The vehicle drove past Benaroon Drive as William was riding his bike on the driveway around 9am and performed a u-turn.

The other vehicle in question is a four-wheel-drive that is said to have exited Benaroon Drive around the time William disappeared. A four-wheel-drive was later seen driving at speed in the Kendall area.
To me, it is amazing how, one year after this event, all of these vehicles, at least four of them, come out of the woodwork, even though at the time, there was no mention made to be on the lookout for certain types of vehicles, and all of the neighbours seem to have been quoted saying there was no weird stuff seen, and no traffic on the street that morning, even from neighbours who were outside at the time. jmo.
 
  • #867
This is just a thought.... and as some of you know, I am not in Australia, I am in Canada.. so perhaps some things are different.... however, I am close to someone who works for our 'Victorian Order of Nurses (VON)', a highly regarded nursing service that has been around for a long time. This person travels from client to client during the course of his work shift, in his own vehicle, to provide nursing assistance to those in need of assistance yet still living in their own homes. He is not allowed to park in the clients' driveways, it is against the rules. No idea why, although around here, it makes sense, because you could potentially be blocking another household occupant from either entering or exiting their own driveway. With huge long driveways, it wouldn't matter obviously, however, the rules are the rules. Just a thought that perhaps something similar could exist over there, and this could easily be an explanation for why the cars were there i)early in the morning; ii)for a certain, perhaps extended length of time; iii)not parked in the driveway; iv)with the windows down (safe neighbourhood/hot/nothing to steal in the car?);
Also, clients sometimes require a two-person visit for various reasons, ie perhaps if there might be heavy lifting of a patient involved. Or sometimes there are team meetings involved, where say a worker, and a supervisor or planner, might both attend a meeting at the client's home to review needs/reassess, whatever. I wonder if GJ has checked out all of these types of services, which I'm sure must also exist over there, to see if anyone on the street may have been receiving services that morning?
Sorry for the lack of paragraph formatting :/
If that was the case then surely they would have come forward. You would have to be living under a rock if you didn’t know that Jubes has said, if you were in Kendall that day, let alone the street then come forward. Unless of course you were there with bad intent
 
  • #868
Or a particular age preference. Many articles say that it is the age of the child that is the attraction.
Yes, I have heard that also. Apparently when children are young, they are somehow 'similar' enough to hit the disgusting deviated appetite of such a monster. jmo.
 
  • #869
Gold Coast Bulletin

This article states that the 2 cars match the description of the types of cars driven by pedophiles Tony Jones (white station wagon) and Paul Bickford (grey sedan) at the time of William's disappearance. It's alleged they met with each other on the day William went missing.

That's a whole lot of coincidences. Another sedan was seen doing a U-Turn in Benaroon Drive at 9am while William was riding his bike, then a 4WD was spotted leaving Benaroon Drive at the time William disappeared, later seen driving at speed through Kendall. That's a lot of activity in one morning for a quiet cul-de-sac.

It makes it sound like William was being staked out by a group of pedophiles, whether they were part of a ring or just happened to know each other. The mystery is how did they know William was there? It's possible that William was spotted by someone who had a reason to be on the street at that time, but how did all the other cars become involved? If all of those cars are related to the case, then it sounds like a coordinated effort which presumably required some planning?
 
  • #870
If that was the case then surely they would have come forward. You would have to be living under a rock if you didn’t know that Jubes has said, if you were in Kendall that day, let alone the street then come forward.
Yes absolutely, however.... through GJ's intense focus on the pedophile aspect, surely the man with the white vehicle came to the forefront, and GJ may have innocuously discovered that the man had access to the same sort of white vehicle as was seen in the street that morning... which may have then given occasion to question and perhaps even obtain a search warrant for said vehicle and locations where vehicle was perhaps kept? On the other hand, yes, hopefully all such workers have come forward.... I can't speak for the news there, or how well it is heard by how many.. but surely, after one year of knowing those vehicles were there that morning, surely, even if nobody *had* come forward about those vehicles, GJ would have checked in with every conceivable type of service that could potentially have been visiting any of the neighbouring residents, to find those cars. In fact, nevermind the cars at all, but hopefully as part of the thorough investigation, GJ's team checked into all of those to see if any workers of any agencies were seeing clients that morning? jmo.
 
  • #871
Yes absolutely, however.... through GJ's intense focus on the pedophile aspect, surely the man with the white vehicle came to the forefront, and GJ may have innocuously discovered that the man had access to the same sort of white vehicle as was seen in the street that morning... which may have then given occasion to question and perhaps even obtain a search warrant for said vehicle and locations where vehicle was perhaps kept? On the other hand, yes, hopefully all such workers have come forward.... I can't speak for the news there, or how well it is heard by how many.. but surely, after one year of knowing those vehicles were there that morning, surely, even if nobody *had* come forward about those vehicles, GJ would have checked in with every conceivable type of service that could potentially have been visiting any of the neighbouring residents, to find those cars. In fact, nevermind the cars at all, but hopefully as part of the thorough investigation, GJ's team checked into all of those to see if any workers of any agencies were seeing clients that morning? jmo.
Yes and I’d safely say all neighbours would have been asked if they had anyone visiting fitting said cars descriptions
 
  • #872
If that was the case then surely they would have come forward. You would have to be living under a rock if you didn’t know that Jubes has said, if you were in Kendall that day, let alone the street then come forward. Unless of course you were there with bad intent
I wonder if GJ *did* know about the two vehicles, and already did know their owners and why they were there that day, however, his team's investigation brought him to look at the Tony POI person, and the whole thing about the cars was therefore, then brought into the forefront via MSM, so that it wouldn't appear LE was picking on him for nothing, so to speak.... and also, to give publicity to movement in the case for the public to see.. etc.?
 
  • #873
Yes absolutely, however.... through GJ's intense focus on the pedophile aspect, surely the man with the white vehicle came to the forefront, and GJ may have innocuously discovered that the man had access to the same sort of white vehicle as was seen in the street that morning... which may have then given occasion to question and perhaps even obtain a search warrant for said vehicle and locations where vehicle was perhaps kept? On the other hand, yes, hopefully all such workers have come forward.... I can't speak for the news there, or how well it is heard by how many.. but surely, after one year of knowing those vehicles were there that morning, surely, even if nobody *had* come forward about those vehicles, GJ would have checked in with every conceivable type of service that could potentially have been visiting any of the neighbouring residents, to find those cars. In fact, nevermind the cars at all, but hopefully as part of the thorough investigation, GJ's team checked into all of those to see if any workers of any agencies were seeing clients that morning? jmo.

I am pretty sure that that would have been covered. One of my neighbours has a care worker visit her three times a week for household tasks and to shop for her and everyone in the street knows that. She is so familiar that she is on waving hello status to all of us. Sometimes there is a different one presumably when Mary is on holidays or sick leave. I even know her name.
 
  • #874
Yes and I’d safely say all neighbours would have been asked if they had anyone visiting fitting said cars descriptions
Yes.. I had thought that all along.. obviously they knew where the cars were parked, and it would make sense that the vehicles were parked closest to the home(s) they were visiting.. so certainly, LE would have asked the households about the cars and their occupants and reasons for visiting.. and IF said occupants denied visits... that would be a great big huge red flag.. so I'm assuming that if those cars indeed existed, that LE knew whose they were and why they were there, long long before news of them ever came to light.
 
  • #875
I wonder if GJ *did* know about the two vehicles, and already did know their owners and why they were there that day, however, his team's investigation brought him to look at the Tony POI person, and the whole thing about the cars was therefore, then brought into the forefront via MSM, so that it wouldn't appear LE was picking on him for nothing, so to speak.... and also, to give publicity to movement in the case for the public to see.. etc.?
Yes and also (although a year is a longtime) maybe they were waiting to see if they would come forward with a reason for being there and the fact they haven’t is very suspect
 
  • #876
I am pretty sure that that would have been covered. One of my neighbours has a care worker visit her three times a week for household tasks and to shop for her and everyone in the street knows that. She is so familiar that she is on waving hello status to all of us. Sometimes there is a different one presumably when Mary is on holidays or sick leave. I even know her name.
Yes... I was wondering if... in the event the regular worker may have been off that day, what if an out-of-town worker did some helping out... how far reaching was the news of WT's disappearance and the need to check in, etc.? The thing is though, that if those cars and their owners and reasons were unaccounted for, one year after being seen, .. it just wouldn't happen. It would've been all over the news straight away if they didn't know who they belonged to after a given amount of time. jmo.
 
  • #877
yes, i agree and sometimes wondered if this was an organised deal and he was sold, i do feel the perp/s to be very clever
I believe GJ's team wondered about that too, and have looked into that possibility, and come up with dead space. jmo.
 
  • #878
thankyou,much better shot! i think no #50 may be an empty section in between?
It seems from this drawing/map, that the homes are numbered by 4's, rather than by 2's. jmo.
 

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  • #879
I have always suspected (and Makara and I disagreed many times on this) that Jubelin was brought in after Spedding's name was flagged. I think the case would always have been referred to a more senior detective regardless of Rupp's impending retirement but the minute they looked at Spedding's file, suddenly they find he has been investigated before by Jubelin (in relation to his ex brother in law Hillsley) and perhaps that was a good enough reason to get him involved early on? A great opportunity to get the high profile senior detective involved when it was starting to be obvious there was a lot more to this case than a little boy lost in the bush.
Just my opinion, but I don't think that GJ had investigated BS 'in relation to his ex brother in law Hillsley', it is my belief that he was investigated in relation to a disgruntled ex with whom he was potentially having custody/access issues with, and false allegations. The ex also happened to be the sister of the pedophile murderer Hillsley. Hillsley had nothing to do with BS, other than, I would assume that BS would not have wanted him to be around his daughters. But all of that will soon enough be determined one way or another, I suppose. (Unless it already has and I have missed some news of BS's legal cases?)
 
  • #880
Just my opinion, but I don't think that GJ had investigated BS 'in relation to his ex brother in law Hillsley', it is my belief that he was investigated in relation to a disgruntled ex with whom he was potentially having custody/access issues with, and false allegations. The ex also happened to be the sister of the pedophile murderer Hillsley. Hillsley had nothing to do with BS, other than, I would assume that BS would not have wanted him to be around his daughters. But all of that will soon enough be determined one way or another, I suppose. (Unless it already has and I have missed some news of BS's legal cases?)
Bill Spedding's ex-brother-in-law a murdering rapist, court told

Victims lived with hillsley for a period in 1987 according to this article
 
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