Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #37

[Thebottomline]

Wouldn't that be double jeopardy though if he was acquitted in the first trial of the charges that involved the same children between two different states?
Or did it involve different children?

Double jeopardy: Can a person be punished twice for the same offence in Australia?

 

[SouthAussie]

Double jeopardy applies to prosecution for the same offence. The Victorian charges are not the same offence. They are different offences in a different state. Regardless if there is a same victim in both sets of charges. They are separate offences.

There is also a possibility that even if Spedding did wangle out of a conviction in the NSW case, he can be tried for that again also. If new and compelling evidence comes to light. So, if recharged and tried and found guilty in Victoria, that perhaps could be considered new and compelling evidence to recharge him in NSW. It could be 'tendency evidence'.

Either way, I don't think his worries are all over - with regard to the historical charges. The fact that the Vic charges were withdrawn leaves a big window wide open for the future. imo

.....the double jeopardy laws changed in NSW in 2006 allowing a suspect to be re-tried if "fresh and compelling" evidence came to light.
What is double jeopardy and why is it important with the Bowraville murders?

 

[Thebottomline]

Thank goodness! police talking like you inferred shouldnt be near a prosecution.

I just wanted to bring this post forward aswell as I believe this is incorrect after a little research papertrail, I believe police involved in case a very much a part of the trial.

 

[Karinna]

Double jeopardy: Can a person be punished twice for the same offence in Australia?

Thanks for the link. I think the DJ rule can also vary state to state from what i have read, and how it pertains to any given individual case.

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
Reasonable prospect of conviction
4.
A prosecution may only proceed if there is a reasonable prospect of a conviction. In
determining whether there is a reasonable prospect of a conviction, regard must be had to:
•
all the admissible evidence
•
the possibility of evidence being excluded
•
any possible defence
•
whether the prosecution witnesses are availa
ble, competent and compellable
•
the credibility and reliability of the prosecution witnesses
•
any substantive conflict between eye
-witnesses
•
whether there is any reason to suspect that evidence may have been concocted
•
how the witnesses are likely to stand up
to giving evidence in court
•
any possible contamination of evidence
•
the reliability of any admissions
•
the reliability of any forensic or medical evidence
http://www.opp.vic.gov.au/getattachment/b5d48af4-3bef-4650-84fa-6b9befc776e0/DPP-Policy.aspx

 

[Thebottomline]

(quote)
Reasonable prospect of conviction
4.
A prosecution may only proceed if there is a reasonable prospect of a conviction. In
determining whether there is a reasonable prospect of a conviction, regard must be had to:
•
all the admissible evidence
•
the possibility of evidence being excluded
•
any possible defence
•
whether the prosecution witnesses are availa
ble, competent and compellable
•
the credibility and reliability of the prosecution witnesses
•
any substantive conflict between eye
-witnesses
•
whether there is any reason to suspect that evidence may have been concocted
•
how the witnesses are likely to stand up
to giving evidence in court
•
any possible contamination of evidence
•
the reliability of any admissions
•
the reliability of any forensic or medical evidence
http://www.opp.vic.gov.au/getattachment/b5d48af4-3bef-4650-84fa-6b9befc776e0/DPP-Policy.aspx

So many reasons this case may have been dismissed. Hopefully these victims find peace and one day maybe get their result they so deserve , Imo etc

 

[Thebottomline]

And now I think it’s time I stopped posting as I keep getting awarded trophies! Watching this thread everyday for 4 years has now given me verbal diarrhoea.

 

[SouthAussie]

And now I think it’s time I stopped posting as I keep getting awarded trophies! Watching this thread everyday for 4 years has now given me verbal diarrhoea.

Hahaha ... don't worry, the trophies stop pretty quickly and you become another longterm member.

It is always interesting to hear others thoughts. Everyone brings something different to the thread.

 

[Karinna]

So many reasons this case may have been dismissed. Hopefully these victims find peace and one day maybe get their result they so deserve , Imo etc

Yes there are many variables and i guess we may never know why.
But agree, i do hope the victims will find some semblance of peace & justice for sure.

 

[SouthAussie]

So many reasons this case may have been dismissed. Hopefully these victims find peace and one day maybe get their result they so deserve , Imo etc

Except it wasn't dismissed ... remember. It was withdrawn.

(I know you know that, just didn't want to perpetuate potential incorrect thoughts )

 

[Karinna]

Charges Withdrawn

Did the Prosecution withdraw the charges?

If you have charge sheets and the prosecution have decided to withdraw all your charges then the matter is over.

If they withdraw charges rather than have them dismissed they can re-lay them at some later point. With a lot of summary matters there are time limits for charges to be laid. It is very rare that charges get laid again at a later point and our firm has not had a case where they have been. It is pretty clear when cases are being withdrawn what the real reason is (ie no proper identification evidence etc).
If the matter was a “Notice to Appear” the withdrawal of that Notice does not mean that they will not be proceeding. It may mean that the charges are withdrawn, but if an Informant is busy they might withdraw the Notice and issue charges at a later point

Normally a withdrawal of charges is an acknowledgement that they can not prove you guilty of the charges.
Withdrawing charges

 

[Karinna]

Is there an MSM link pertaining to BS's Victorian case and the withdrawl of the charges? TIA.

 

[Thebottomline]

Except it wasn't dismissed ... remember. It was withdrawn.

(I know you know that, just didn't want to perpetuate potential incorrect thoughts )

Thankyou ,yes withdrawn, as I was posting that I thought I realised I used the wrong terminology!

 

[sleepinoz]

Is there an MSM link pertaining to BS's Victorian case and the withdrawl of the charges? TIA.

Yes. It's paywalled so I can't copy .

But prosecutors withdrew the 67-year-old’s charges in the Ballarat Magistrates’ Court today.

Daily Telegraph - 9th Aug, 2018

Google clip below

 

[Karinna]

Yes. It's paywalled so I can't copy .

But prosecutors withdrew the 67-year-old’s charges in the Ballarat Magistrates’ Court today.

Daily Telegraph - 9th Aug, 2018

Google clip below

Thanks for posting up the info.

 

[deugirtni]

Is there an MSM link pertaining to BS's Victorian case and the withdrawl of the charges? TIA.

The other article(s?) are paywalled, but I was able to see this one:

"A MAN previously named by police as a person of interest in the disappearance of NSW toddler William Tyrrell has had historic child sex abuse charges against him dismissed in a Victorian court.
....

But prosecutors withdrew the 67-year-old’s charges in the Ballarat Magistrates’ Court today.

The white goods repairman has denied the allegations was not required to appear in court.
“I will mark all charges as withdrawn,” Magistrate Ronald Saines said.
....

Spedding’s Victorian matter will return to Ballarat Magistrates’ Court for a costs application on September 20."

William Tyrell 'person of interest' has historic child sex charges dismissed

 

[papertrail]

I just wanted to bring this post forward aswell as I believe this is incorrect after a little research papertrail, I believe police involved in case a very much a part of the trial.

I believe you have misunderstood totally what my point was. From my point of view a policeman or investigator stating what the original poster in here posited, gives the impression they would be willing to manufacture and twist and stitch evidence to an alleged perpetrator to ensure the end wanted result to a prosecution.

even if said perpetrator is guilty of said offense it leaves the case wide open for appeal then possibility of a not guilty outcome.

 

[Thebottomline]

I believe you have misunderstood totally what my point was. From my point of view a policeman or investigator stating what the original poster in here posited, gives the impression they would be willing to manufacture and twist and stitch evidence to an alleged perpetrator to ensure the end wanted result to a prosecution.

even if said perpetrator is guilty of said offense it leaves the case wide open for appeal then possibility of a not guilty outcome.

No .

 

[papertrail]

Could be many reasons.Too traumatic for the girls maybe. If he was acquitted and that’s a big if of the 1st trial then I would say it’s done and dusted and he has been lucky enough to get away with it. iMOO. Or alternatively he wasn’t acquitted and is paying his penance and that may have been enough for the girls involved in 2nd trial.
Or if first trial acquitted him then the ones involved in the second one may have felt disparaged to go ahead with the historical allegations .

Or prosecutors believe complainant had vexatious intent and there is no evidence to support a successful trial outcome.

Or prosecutors are working in background with nsw prosecutors afterall are not the victorian alleged offences the same as the nsw alleged offenses with the same alleged victims?

If the case went to successful prosecution in victoria and a jail sentence was outcome that may upset the equilibrium the nsw investigators and prosecutors may be working towards.

 

[papertrail]

Double jeopardy: Can a person be punished twice for the same offence in Australia?

No. If a person is convicted and an appeal is launched with successful outcome of not guilty the case cannot be subjected to new prosecution using same evidence.

New prosecution can only be launched if new evidence is presented to be trialed.