Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #37

[Karinna]

Do any of you know if there are any other cases like William's of a child in foster care that disappeared while in care? For comparison.

 

[sleepinoz]

Do any of you know if there are any other cases like William's of a child in foster care that disappeared while in care? For comparison.

None to my knowledge. Which makes it difficult to compare and gives many reasons for people to speculate the worst.

 

[frogwell]

It seems obvious that the bios did not want their children fostered/adopted or the equivalent. It also seems obvious that the FP's wanted to raise the children to adulthood. Both are cleared and yet before opportunistic abduction it is difficult to pass up this conflict as a motive for WT's disappearance. A number of the POI's who have come to our attention besides being CSO's are also involved in grandparent kinship care. And a credible link may have been found back to WT's bio grandmother through these people. It seems no sign of life has been found of WT since his disappearance, hence the idea that he may be deceased, but there may be hope. I still think this abduction was planned and targeted. IMO

 

[frogwell]

Do any of you know if there are any other cases like William's of a child in foster care that disappeared while in care? For comparison.

Not unless the child is known to be dead or if that conclusion has been reached by a coronial inquiry. Until it is confirmed that a child has passed away in the foster system, we do no get to hear about that child going missing.

 

[Karinna]

Delete

 

[Karinna]

Not unless the child is known to be dead or if that conclusion has been reached by a coronial inquiry. Until it is confirmed that a child has passed away in the foster system, we do no get to hear about that child going missing.

Thanks for your reply frogwell. That would certainly make sense.

 

[CuriousCritter]

It seems obvious that the bios did not want their children fostered/adopted or the equivalent. It also seems obvious that the FP's wanted to raise the children to adulthood. Both are cleared and yet before opportunistic abduction it is difficult to pass up this conflict as a motive for WT's disappearance. A number of the POI's who have come to our attention besides being CSO's are also involved in grandparent kinship care. And a credible link may have been found back to WT's bio grandmother through these people. It seems no sign of life has been found of WT since his disappearance, hence the idea that he may be deceased, but there may be hope. I still think this abduction was planned and targeted. IMO

You could well be right, I was re listening and watching videos earlier and in this podcast Jubes says " only fp and BP are cleared"

So an associate/relative of either still could possibly be responsible.

Also I noticed when talking about the culprit Jubes was more implying a "him" then after a pause quickly says or "her"

http://www.2gb.com/podcast/wheres-william-tyrrell/

 

[SouthAussie]

It seems obvious that the bios did not want their children fostered/adopted or the equivalent. It also seems obvious that the FP's wanted to raise the children to adulthood. Both are cleared and yet before opportunistic abduction it is difficult to pass up this conflict as a motive for WT's disappearance. A number of the POI's who have come to our attention besides being CSO's are also involved in grandparent kinship care. And a credible link may have been found back to WT's bio grandmother through these people. It seems no sign of life has been found of WT since his disappearance, hence the idea that he may be deceased, but there may be hope. I still think this abduction was planned and targeted. IMO

I agree that parental abduction must have been very high on the list, especially with the bio parents attitude toward their children being fostered and taking off with William once before. But Brendan is tearing his hair out, digging up forest looking for William, Karlie is sobbing and sobbing wondering where her son may be, the foster parents are choking up and completely bereft about the loss of William.

Who else could have him? Who else would even care so deeply about the whole situation? Who else could keep William under wraps for 4 years and not be discovered or squealed on? And why? When none of the parents can get near William, likely cannot even communicate by skype or anything else, due to covert and overt operations.

Do you think that someone took William for Karlie/Brendan, then disposed of him when it blew up to be a massively huge case with big repercussions?

 

[frogwell]

I agree that parental abduction must have been very high on the list, especially with the bio parents attitude toward their children being fostered and taking off with William once before. But Brendan is tearing his hair out, digging up forest looking for William, Karlie is sobbing and sobbing wondering where her son may be, the foster parents are choking up and completely bereft about the loss of William.

Who else could have him? Who else would even care so deeply about the whole situation? Who else could keep William under wraps for 4 years and not be discovered or squealed on? And why? When none of the parents can get near William, likely cannot even communicate by skype or anything else, due to covert and overt operations.

Do you think that someone took William for Karlie/Brendan, then disposed of him when it blew up to be a massively huge case with big repercussions?

Yeah, I think it's possible someone might have done it on their behalf, not even telling them till they could think of a way to be reunited, but WT might be stuck somewhere, the decision to hand him on might not be in the person who organised its hands and they may have even been threatened with harm to WT if they go to the police about it, very messy, can't move while they are being watched. Or the situation has become too hot for people to handle and they have disposed of him. It might have even been a way to make the FP look like neglectful parents in the short term but spiralled into something much bigger as the situation developed. IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Yeah, I think it's possible someone might have done it on their behalf, not even telling them till they could think of a way to be reunited, but WT might be stuck somewhere, the decision to hand him on might not be in the person who organised its hands and they may have even been threatened with harm to WT if they go to the police about it, very messy, can't move while they are being watched. Or the situation has become too hot for people to handle and they have disposed of him. It might have even been a way to make the FP look like neglectful parents in the short term but spiralled into something much bigger as the situation developed. IMO

That is the saddest situation. William spending 4 years with no-one who loves him. Or, worse still, being disposed of ... after a period of time in a sad situation.

I have seen the word 'kidnapped' be used in a few articles, as opposed to the word abduction. It made me wonder if a kidnap note had ever been delivered .. somewhere down the road in the investigation, after everyone had been chasing their tails looking everywhere else for a good while.

I know that kooks come out of the woodwork in high profile cases and claim all kinds of things, but I have wondered about a serious kidnapping communication with some proof of some kind attached.


Missing toddler William Tyrell victim of possible targeted kidnapping from Kendall
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
January 3, 2015

Police are yet to identify a suspect but Dr Ferguson said the kidnapper may not necessarily be known to William’s family, but it may have been someone the child might have recognised.
William Tyrrell disappearance haunts Kendall two years after 'opportunistic' kidnapping
8 September 2016

 

[Deleted member 102539]

A sole parental responsibility order is a long term order intended to last until the child or young person is 18, and is aimed at increasing their sense of stability. The order requires the consent of the birth parents and the child or young person if they are over 12.

red = ^^ This.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, the drug and DV issues.

Did he seek help prior to 2018? Did KT leave him prior to Williams disappearance?

According to her Sunday night interview - No.

My initial comment was about them loving their children enough to change their lifestyle. It didn't happen.

Can we please put this to bed, I don't particularly like what they have done to lose their children, but I don't think we need to keep rehashing their problems.

I will put it to bed, but want to say, that the DV-issues seemed to be a problem of them both being aggressive and rough, not only BC. So, a separation only wouldn't help. IMO

 

[Thebottomline]

If WT and his sister had not been under the care of the minister at the time of disappearance and with no leads in the 1st week, I believe that the carers and the carer's mother and the bio parents would have been in front of every camera doing a police press conference appealing for WT's whereabouts and return and that it could have gathered vital information for the investigation. IMO

I understand

 

[Deleted member 102539]

You don't think she should be protected?

Of course, little L. should have been. But wasn't it enough, not to name her in the newspapers and not to show a pic of her? Is that well-meaning "protection", that this very young girl after the abduction has to lie about or rather to deny having a little brother, who got lost?
I think, without the mannny secrets the investigators possibly would have gotten calls with more or different concrete hints.

 

[SouthAussie]

Of course, little L. should have been. But wasn't it enough, not to name her in the newspapers and not to show a pic of her? Is that well-meaning "protection", that this very young girl after the abduction has to lie about or rather to deny having a little brother, who got lost?
I think, without the mannny secrets the investigators possibly would have gotten calls with more or different concrete hints.

I am guessing that these posts about foster parent disclosure are having a whinge about FACS rules.

I am also guessing that people here realise that there is nothing the police or the foster parents can do about those rules.
It seems they even had to get permission to publish any photos of William.
And the judge in the caselaw about William being a foster child did not circumvent those rules either ... again, likely due to the fact that William's sister is still in foster care. imo


Talk to your caseworker about any request to publish or broadcast photographs, video footage or anything else that identifies a child or young person as being in care, including publishing the names of their parents.
Consent to publish or broadcast personally identifying information must also be sought if the child or young person has passed away.

In all situations, consider the safety, welfare and wellbeing of the child or young person’s needs first. Don’t give out information that discloses their whereabouts if this information is protected. There is a risk that the publication or broadcast of identifying information may alert inappropriate people to the location of the child or young person. If you’re in any doubt, talk to your caseworker.
https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0012/321330/Caring-for-Kids-combined.pdf
(See Page 69)

 

[SouthAussie]

There is a woman here who is on murder charges after her 20-month foster child was found deceased with a broken femur and multiple bruises on his face.
The woman cannot be named, and is just described as a 40-year Guerie woman who is an abattoir worker, who was wearing board shorts and a black t-shirt and was sobbing when she was led into court in handcuffs.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
January 9, 2018

Those are the FACS rules for you, hard rules at times, but initially designed with the best of intentions ... to protect the child. (This woman's family have also provided foster care previously.)

 

[gregjrichards]

Will the fourth anniversary of William’s disappearance soon get any high profile media attention?

 

[CuriousCritter]

I am guessing that these posts about foster parent disclosure are having a whinge about FACS rules.

I am also guessing that people here realise that there is nothing the police or the foster parents can do about those rules.
It seems they even had to get permission to publish any photos of William.
And the judge in the caselaw about William being a foster child did not circumvent those rules either ... again, likely due to the fact that William's sister is still in foster care. imo


Talk to your caseworker about any request to publish or broadcast photographs, video footage or anything else that identifies a child or young person as being in care, including publishing the names of their parents.
Consent to publish or broadcast personally identifying information must also be sought if the child or young person has passed away.

In all situations, consider the safety, welfare and wellbeing of the child or young person’s needs first. Don’t give out information that discloses their whereabouts if this information is protected. There is a risk that the publication or broadcast of identifying information may alert inappropriate people to the location of the child or young person. If you’re in any doubt, talk to your caseworker.
https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0012/321330/Caring-for-Kids-combined.pdf
(See Page 69)

I personally don't agree with FACS rules and I know there is many many more people within Australia and abroad that don't either.

If a child is murdered, sexually assaulted, beaten, missing etc etc isn't it within the right of the child/ren to have a thorough open slather investigation, like what would happen if the same happened to a non foster child. Why should foster parents have special treatment, it's just a cover up because it's within a government body. It's the same with shonky police, politicians etc etc, they are all protected if they do wrong.

The safety of WT's sister is obviously of no great concern, for FACS or LE as many people know who the ff are, where they live work etc etc. So if it's all about protecting the sister 100% then why haven't they moved or have her placed with different carers so her whereabouts aren't known to the public.

 

[SouthAussie]

So if it's all about protecting the sister 100% then why haven't they moved or have her placed with different carers so her whereabouts aren't known to the public.

To me, the obvious answer would be that they do not want to shake up the little girl’s security once again. She has been shifted around enough. Probably loves her FP dearly, and is secure in her home and environment.
As her FP have been thoroughly investigated and cleared, according to the police, I don’t think FACS would see any good purpose in moving her elsewhere. And to where? It is well known that foster care resources are stretched to the limit.
Her welfare would be FACS primary concern at this point … they will leave William’s investigation up to the investigators.

Unlike Spedding’s grandchildren, who were removed for their protection from both him and Margaret while Spedding was/is under suspicion of child sex offences and not cleared.

 

[Thebottomline]

How can this women laugh through this interview
https://www.9now.com.au/a-current-affair/2016/clip-cis83b06y001i0invri4zw93z